Star Trek TNG on BluRay confirmed ! — Page 4

Gaffer Tape said: And if the original work is only going to end up being relegated to old, eventually out-of-print DVDs that can only be found used, how is that any different from George's line of, "The originals are out there on VHS, if anyone wants them"?

It's different because the VHS releases do not look the way that Star Wars looked in 1977, whereas the Star Trek DVDs do look the way that TNG looked when it was broadcast on TV.  There are countless copies of TNG as it has always looked out there, so future preservations, if they ever become necessary, will be incredibly easy.  This is nothing like the Star Wars situation.

Gaffer Tape said:

It's not entirely analogous, but to say it's nothing like it is silly.

It's not silly to state that two things are nothing alike if one cannot see the similarity at all.  (I can't.)  TNG has received a release that essentially equals the quality of the original.  Star Wars has not. 

Isn't the point that the originals are not readily available, that they only exist in either unofficial fan preservations or as out-of-print rarities while a new version takes its official place?  That history is being buried and rewritten? 

Yes, and that's why TNG is nothing like Star Wars because the original is readily available.  I see no evidence whatsoever that the people at Paramount are attempting to revise history as Lucas is.  They seem to be taking great care to be true to the original.  Recreating the effects is necessary for the conversion to true HD in the case of TNG because it was a TV show that went through post production in video, not a motion picture.  It's not necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.

Paramount can't keep making the same old DVDs indefinitely.  There's no market for it.  People that want them have already bought them.  The only way that the studio can sell the show again is to convert it to HD with recreated effects.  If you don't want that, then just buy the DVDs.

Taking great care to be true to the original is still not the same as the original.

Of course it's not, but the point is that you said that you didn't see how it was different from "George's line" when it quite clearly is.  Lucas modifies Star Wars to bring it in line with what he claims to be his original vision.  What Paramount is doing is in no way comparable.  The originals were not in HD, and as your opinion is...

my opinion in this case would honestly be, "Well, it wasn't made to be seen in HD?  Too bad.  It is what it is."  I certainly don't see it as at all necessary. 

... I don't see why you care enough to bother to post in the Blu-ray thread and argue about it.  If that's your view, an HD version couldn't possibly satisfy you  Just be happy with the DVDs.

It's not necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.

Tell that to the people arguing in the General Star Wars section whether or not recomping the original effects digitally would count as the original or is something that needs to be done.  Or tell it to the fandom at large, many of whom DID and DO feel that the CG updates were necessary for the films to exist in this modern world.

You missed the point.  All of the original effects are on the original negative (and/or whatever prints survive), so an HD version could be made without redoing all the effects.   That's not the case for TNG: the effects are not part of the negative.  They were done on video.

And what if I want to see the best possible version of the live action elements with the best possible version of the original effects? 

The effects intrude on the live action elements, so that's not really possible, and even it were it would mean that you want the live action elements to look better than they originally looked.

And "Just be happy with the DVDs" does sound exactly like something a Star Wars fan would say to one of us.

It's not the same situation because the GOUT DVDs are atrocious quality and do not come close to doing the original Star Wars justice, whereas the Star Trek DVDs do look like the show did when it was broadcast.

No.  I'm not missing that point.  I know exactly how TNG was made, and why some people feel redoing the effects is necessary.  I just disagree.

You don't post as if you know that because you said: Tell that to the people arguing in the General Star Wars section whether or not recomping the original effects digitally would count as the original or is something that needs to be done.  Or tell it to the fandom at large, many of whom DID and DO feel that the CG updates were necessary for the films to exist in this modern world, when I said it wasn't necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.  If you disagree that redoing the effects is necessary explain how Paramount would convince people to buy Blu-rays that were just upscales of the originals, which is the only other way of doing it.  They would look worse than the DVDs in my opinion, because there was a DS9 episode on the original series Blu-rays and it looked worse than the DVDs, again in my opinion.

It seems you're missing my point, which is all about whether or not the original effects continue to be made available for current and future releases. 

I'm not missing that point.  You've also said that you don't see the point of redoing the effects in HD and that's what I take issue with.

I'm not sure why you take issue with it.  You think I'm here to rain on your parade.  I'm not.  If you want recreated effects, wonderful.  I hope you enjoy them immensely.  But that's not why I'm concerned about the subject.  My only concern is the future of the original versions.

I think you have changed your tune from the time when you posted things such as this:

Perhaps I'm not clear.  We WANT them to re-do the SFX form TNG and Bab5?  I thought this website is against that type of thing?

and this:

Wait, they're recomping all the visual effects?  I'm with TheBoost.  Aren't we against that?  I know I'm against that.

You'll forgive me if I received the impression that you were against the recreation of the effects.

But that's not why I'm concerned about the subject.  My only concern is the future of the original versions.

Paramount has already released many many copies of the original versions.  Track some down or start a preservation thread if you are concerned about the future of the original versions, but this thread is about the Blu-rays and what Paramount is doing to make a Blu-ray release feasible. I'll quote myself to save some typing, because you still haven't addressed this:  If you disagree that redoing the effects is necessary explain how Paramount would convince people to buy Blu-rays that were just upscales of the originals, which is the only other way of doing it.

I haven't read any of this, but I'd just like to say...

FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!!

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make my opinion, but I'm getting a bit weary of having to reiterate it to you.

The feeling's mutual.  I really do understand that you want the original effects, but it's statements like this Hate to keep raining on this parade, but I still don't see the point of redoing the effects for HD anyway that I take issue with. It's the fact that you don't see the point of changing the effects for HD.

    I never said that.  That was TheBoost.

You're right.  That was TheBoost.  I'm sorry I misquoted you: I was thinking of another post.

Finally, to answer your question:  the same way every other movie studio constantly re-releases things without altering the content.  It happens all the time, and people still buy re-releases.  And before you get on to me for saying that, that's not necessarily what I'm saying they should do in this situation.  You just asked me this question, and I gave you a plausible scenario.

It's not plausible at all because the Blu-rays would not be a re-release.  I asked you to explain how Paramount could feasibly release the series on Blu-ray without redoing the effects.  Of course, Paramount could release the DVDs again, but most fans who want those already have them.  In order for Paramount to make it commercially feasible to sell the Blu-rays to fans, many of whom already have the DVDs, it is necessary to offer people an HD experience that would persuade them to upgrade.  The other way is to upscale all the effects, which would look worse than the DVDs.  I wish TNG were in the same situation as TOS and that only the space scenes were done on video, but it's not the case, and I really don't see how including the original effects is feasible.

And I apologize that this thread has gotten so heated.

I'm sorry too, man.  It's nothing personal.  I didn't see this edit, until after I'd posted.

Gaffer Tape said:

I have not changed my tune at all.  I am still against it.  I don't know how much clearer I can make that.  I don't think it's necessary, and I personally don't believe it's right to alter stuff like this, no matter the reason.  That does not mean that I'm saying that you cannot enjoy it.  And if the originals were included with this release (like, for example, the TOS Blu-rays), then I would not be expressing much concern.

I FULLY and I mean FULLY agree. While I can "tolerate" the new effects (because the reword will be the highly improved color balance and resolution), but I would prefer if they use the old effects "somehow". But if they won't, I won't kill myself :-)

TV's Frink said:

I haven't read any of this, but I'd just like to say...

FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!! FIGHT!!!

Why can't we be friends,
why can't we be friends,

why can't we be friend,

why can't we be frieeeeeends ...

Chewtobacca said:

 I asked you to explain how Paramount could feasibly release the series on Blu-ray without redoing the effects.  Of course, Paramount could release the DVDs again, but most fans who want those already have them.  In order for Paramount to make it commercially feasible to sell the Blu-rays to fans, many of whom already have the DVDs, it is necessary to offer people an HD experience that would persuade them to upgrade.  The other way is to upscale all the effects, which would look worse than the DVDs.  I wish TNG were in the same situation as TOS and that only the space scenes were done on video, but it's not the case, and I really don't see how including the original effects is feasible.

Actually I would prefer if they make a HD transfer of all the scenes without special effects, and combine them with upscaled versions of the scenes which DO feature effects. It could be interesting

doubleofive said:

There's a whole bunch of shows done on video that will never be out on Blu-ray, why aren't we fighting over them?

doubleofive said:  The issue with that would be every viewscreen, phaser blast, and transporter effect has to be redone, meaning flipping back and forth between 1080p and less-than-DVD quality quite frequently.  I don't think seamless branching is an option, you'd have to have the entire series on the discs twice.

This.  TNG is simply not in the same situation as TOS.  Even TOS space scenes look quite bad on BD: if I want to see the original effects, which I often do, it's less jarring to watch the DVDs.

There's a whole bunch of shows done on video that will never be out on Blu-ray, why aren't we fighting over them?

I'd certainly fight for their release on BD.  What do you have in mind apart from the other Star Trek series and of course Bab5?