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Star Trek Into Darkness Full Spoiler Discussion — Page 3

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CP3S said:

DominicCobb said:

if they keep up the quality, this will easily be one of the greatest film trilogies ever.

Wow! No offense, but some of you guys never fail to surprise me with how willing you are to consume and enjoy pure shit. If you enjoyed it, great. But seriously, one of the greatest film trilogies ever?

This is why Orci, Kurtzman, Abrams, and Bay are some of the hottest names as well as the go to guys in Hollywood right now. Mix some dog awful but sometimes quipy dialogue over a tried and true (and tired) plot, add pretty lights and explosions, a few pairs of tits and some hot young faces, and BAM! Hollywood magic! Enthralled audiences! Raking in money by the millions!

Ugh!

None taken. While I realize some people don't like these movies, I have to say I'll never understand how people could compare them to Michael Bay. I don't know, agree to disagree.

Anyway, saying this could be one of the greatest film trilogies of all time does not mean that I think these are some of the greatest films of all time, because they aren't. I simply mean that when you when you really think about it, there are only a handful of really great film trilogies (I could go through them but I do not think here is really the place, but really, think about how many great trilogies there are). A good film trilogy to me is one that keeps a consistent high quality. The prospect of these new Star Trek films having a third film of high quality to round out their trilogy excites me. But of course, if you think these movies are pure shit, then you wouldn't understand that.

SilverWook said:

I had those emotions too. In 1982! ;)

Ha, ha, well I guess I understand that. To me the WOK connection only made the emotions stronger.

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 (Edited)

I saw it today.

It was slightly better than the very average previous film.

Cummerbund wins the coveted award for the most unconvincing ethnic Sikh in any space based drama from Ricardo Montessori.

It is definitely more Enterprise the movie than Star Trek the movie.

I half expected the Klingons to look like the Original series guys under those masks which they wear out of shame from dabbling with human augment DNA.

Nice to see the return of Shatner's Syrup in the last act and Quinto's ,"KHAN!!!!!!!!" was the cheesiest piece of cheese since Chesney Chedder married Ruby Roquefort who gave birth to Baby Bel.

I'd do Chris Pine though and Karl Urban.

3 Balls.

If this is any indicator of where Star Wars is going, expect the PT but with Dutch angles, better acting and something resembling characters and a plot but only slightly.

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I wanted to post my opinion before it is effected by everyone else's too much.

I saw the 3D version last night.  Liked it a lot.   I thought 3D worked very well for the movie.  Very entertaining movie.   I would not call it a great work of art or one of the greatest movie's ever made, but it kept me entertained for two hours.   I was not shocked at all to learn who Harrison really was.  

[spoiler alert]

I was not shocked at all to learn who Harrison really was.   I thought Spock shouting "Khan!!!" was stupid.   I still can't accept the Spock/Uhura relationship(specially now that there are so few Vulcans left after the first movie,  I would think it imperative that Spock take a Vulcan mate to help preserve the race".    Although obviously a copy from TWOK,  the scene of Kirk's death was interesting.   I honestly thought for a while the next movie was going to be "The Search For Kirk" Although the movie took a lot from the TWOK.  It was different enough not to be predictable.    I liked how movie ended with the "Space, the final frontier . . . "  montage and the music from TOS.  

[/spoiler alert]

Not a masterpiece, but good.  I give a 6 out of 10.    

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now that I have seen the film, I read the posts in this thread and comment.

timdiggerm said:

I am glad they resolve Kirk's death with life before the film ends. Yes, Spock's death was a great thing, and his return was good too (except for "Jim...your name is Jim!" :D :D :D :D ),

what was wrong the "Jim...your name is Jim!"? 

skyjedi2005 said:

So apparently they lied to us and did exactly remake star trek II a classic film instead of tell an original story.  So much fail.

exactly remake?   come on.   It took a lot from TWOK, but it was not an exact remake.   There were ALOT of differences. 

SilverWook said:

The dramatic tension of Kirk's sacrifice is slightly deflated, because the audience has already been told Khan's got magical healing blood. (Which is apparently unknown to 23rd century medicine, and none of Khan's frozen comrades seem to have.) You can see the resolution coming a light year away.

really??  cause I didn't.   Yeah you see Khan using his blood to heal the girl, but SHE WASN'T DEAD, and Kirk was.   When Kirk died, I honestly thought the next movie as going to be "The Search for Kirk".

CP3S said:

DominicCobb said:

if they keep up the quality, this will easily be one of the greatest film trilogies ever.

Wow! No offense, but some of you guys never fail to surprise me with how willing you are to consume and enjoy pure shit. If you enjoyed it, great. But seriously, one of the greatest film trilogies ever?

absolute shit??? come on, CP3S.   I am not saying you have to think the movie was great, but it was not absolute shit.   As for "one of the greatest trilogies ever"  perhaps, considering how many movie series drop in quality after the first film and then even more after the 2nd.   

CP3S said:

I feel like Spock should be standing trial for irresponsibly destroying a giant spaceship in a way that caused it to crash land on a densely populated city.

really????? come on.  he had to stop Khan.   And I don't know that he had any idea that Khan would crash land on a densely populated city.

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Funny how the beginning and end feel more like classic Trek than the middle part. The old guard could have made an entire story about a primitive culture that worships the Enterprise. ;)

The Spock Uhura relationship has it's seed in The Man Trap. The scene where Uhura flirts with Spock was cut from syndication prints for decades. (Not to mention Nurse Chapel is the aptly named "not appearing in this movie" either.) In spite of Vulcan's tragic demise,  there have to be plenty of colonies elsewhere, just as human have spread out into the galaxy. And Spock may not have undergone Pon Farr yet...

I still feel disappointed by the film. I might see it in IMAX or 2D down the line and give it another chance. I think the four year wait may have increased expectations the film simply couldn't meet.

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Warbler said:

 

SilverWook said:

The dramatic tension of Kirk's sacrifice is slightly deflated, because the audience has already been told Khan's got magical healing blood. (Which is apparently unknown to 23rd century medicine, and none of Khan's frozen comrades seem to have.) You can see the resolution coming a light year away.

really??  cause I didn't.   Yeah you see Khan using his blood to heal the girl, but SHE WASN'T DEAD, and Kirk was.   When Kirk died, I honestly thought the next movie as going to be "The Search for Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun

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SilverWook said:

 And Spock may not have undergone Pon Farr yet...

wouldn't his relationship with Uhura prevent Pon Farr?

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

 

SilverWook said:

The dramatic tension of Kirk's sacrifice is slightly deflated, because the audience has already been told Khan's got magical healing blood. (Which is apparently unknown to 23rd century medicine, and none of Khan's frozen comrades seem to have.) You can see the resolution coming a light year away.

really??  cause I didn't.   Yeah you see Khan using his blood to heal the girl, but SHE WASN'T DEAD, and Kirk was.   When Kirk died, I honestly thought the next movie as going to be "The Search for Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun

Did you read what I wrote?  THE GIRL WAS NOT DEAD.  Kirk was dead.  

If Kirk had lay dying in sickbay of some sort of incurable illness, then it would be clear that Khan's blood was going to heal him.    But was it clear that Khan's blood could bring something back to life?  No.   And, as I said before,  I was not expecting it. 

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SilverWook said:

Yes, but Kirk Sr. might have left some sort of recording made before his untimely death. (Maybe something Kirk's mom only recently gave to him?) It's been done in Trek before...

 

It was good that the events of the last movie cast a shadow on the plot. With Kirk and company finally off on the five year mission, I wonder if the aftermath of yet another rogue Starfleet admiral actions will cast it's own shadow.

 

I forgot to mention earlier that the Parents WERE in the film - When Jim hears their voices in his head - iirc there was no new dialogue though, Just clips from '09 Trek.

sidenote - Did / Does it bother anybody else that Crusher isn't wearing a shirt?

Hopefully the aftermath of Into Darkness' events will carry over but they kinda ended clean slate. Wasn't a year later or something when they head off at the end?

RE: Khan's magic blood and the sick girl / dead Kirk - that's why they had that awkward scene with the dead Tribble.

Would they really just put Khan back into deep freeze at the end if his blood was that powerful? - If section 31 were content to build a warship in secret i don't think they'd have any objection to siphoning him constantly.

RE: The Gorn reference - i think that was just another case of trying to make things sound exotic ala the cardassian sunrise last movie.

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Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

 And Spock may not have undergone Pon Farr yet...

wouldn't his relationship with Uhura prevent Pon Farr?

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

 

SilverWook said:

The dramatic tension of Kirk's sacrifice is slightly deflated, because the audience has already been told Khan's got magical healing blood. (Which is apparently unknown to 23rd century medicine, and none of Khan's frozen comrades seem to have.) You can see the resolution coming a light year away.

really??  cause I didn't.   Yeah you see Khan using his blood to heal the girl, but SHE WASN'T DEAD, and Kirk was.   When Kirk died, I honestly thought the next movie as going to be "The Search for Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun

Did you read what I wrote?  THE GIRL WAS NOT DEAD.  Kirk was dead.  

If Kirk had lay dying in sickbay of some sort of incurable illness, then it would be clear that Khan's blood was going to heal him.    But was it clear that Khan's blood could bring something back to life?  No.   And, as I said before,  I was not expecting it. 

Yes, I read what you wrote. It was still telegraphed well ahead of time Khan's blood was important somehow, especially since it's something never talked about in either Space Seed or TWOK.

As per Chekov's Gun, any writer worth their salt does not introduce a plot element like that without intending to use it later in the story. Unless it's a red herring, which is what Carol Marcus was in a small way. Her presence in the story would lead those familiar with TWOK to suspect the mystery torpedoes were proto Genesis devices.

As an amateur writer and old school videographer, perhaps I just see the nuts and bolts of the plot sticking out. My television production instructor warned the class on the first day we would never passively consume a movie or tv show ever again. ;)

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Johnny Ringo said:

SilverWook said:

Yes, but Kirk Sr. might have left some sort of recording made before his untimely death. (Maybe something Kirk's mom only recently gave to him?) It's been done in Trek before...

 

It was good that the events of the last movie cast a shadow on the plot. With Kirk and company finally off on the five year mission, I wonder if the aftermath of yet another rogue Starfleet admiral actions will cast it's own shadow.

 

I forgot to mention earlier that the Parents WERE in the film - When Jim hears their voices in his head - iirc there was no new dialogue though, Just clips from '09 Trek.

sidenote - Did / Does it bother anybody else that Crusher isn't wearing a shirt?

Hopefully the aftermath of Into Darkness' events will carry over but they kinda ended clean slate. Wasn't a year later or something when they head off at the end?

RE: Khan's magic blood and the sick girl / dead Kirk - that's why they had that awkward scene with the dead Tribble.

Would they really just put Khan back into deep freeze at the end if his blood was that powerful? - If section 31 were content to build a warship in secret i don't think they'd have any objection to siphoning him constantly.

RE: The Gorn reference - i think that was just another case of trying to make things sound exotic ala the cardassian sunrise last movie.

They established in Yesterday's Enterprise that Starfleet lost the collared shirts in that era. Picard had a similar uniform when Q made him relive his days as a cadet in Tapestry.

I couldn't even make out what Kirk was hearing as he regained consciousness. It makes little sense he would hear something his father said before he was born unless there's a log recording of his last comm transmission right before he rammed the Kelvin down the Narada's maw.

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Well, damn. Been a while since I've seen the episode. Maybe they just forgot about the day they shot the Jack Crusher hologram scene?

The best in universe explanation I can think of is Jack dressed hurriedly to make the recording for Wesley. Fathers to be don't get much sleep, Starfleet officers probably even less. Or else the recording isn't 100 percent compatible with the latest Holodeck firmware, and some bits are missing?

Why do you keep picturing Jack Crusher naked? ;)

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

The Spock Uhura relationship has it's seed in The Man Trap. The scene where Uhura flirts with Spock was cut from syndication prints for decades. (Not to mention Nurse Chapel is the aptly named "not appearing in this movie" either.) In spite of Vulcan's tragic demise,  there have to be plenty of colonies elsewhere, just as human have spread out into the galaxy. And Spock may not have undergone Pon Farr yet...

Spock is for Nurse Chapel only! As for Vulcans, Spock explicitly states that he believes the surviving population after the destruction of his homeworld to be around 10,000. I would have figured there would have been a lot of colonies too but apparently not.

As for Pon Farr, apparently that's going to be covered in the follow up comic After Darkness. (No, really!)

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Yeah, I always wanted to see them resume that relationship in the movies. But Chapel vanished, never to return except for a glorified cameo in TVH. One of the comics did have a nice little scene between them set during the events of TMP.

Funny how Christine gets the off screen boot, and we didn't hear Majel as the ship's computer this time around. She did the computer voice for so many Trek shows, (not to mention the games) they could edit together just about any dialog the script required. One Trek tradition they ought to keep alive.

I immediately thought about the old TOS screensaver upon reading the post STID comic title. ;)

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SilverWook said:

Funny how the beginning and end feel more like classic Trek than the middle part

I had the exact same feeling, and just wanted to watch them go through their five year mission.

Although I thought it was interesting that they used the "bum bum bummm" horns in the final scene. Wasn't that theme introduced in TMP?

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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 (Edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9LzoyLQoY

There's a bit of Goldsmith at 1:46, back to ST09 at 2:25, and then the bit I noticed in theaters at 2:38...but I'm not even sure that particular line was heard until TNG.

EDIT: I'm stupid and couldn't remember how the Original Series theme started. Never Mind. Wow.

But that is Goldsmith at 1:46, right? right?

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 (Edited)

Alright, saw it last Thursday, thought about it for a few days, and saw it again last night. I thought it was tons of fun. THIS is what the comics were preparing us for. Orci said that the comics contained a clue to the content of Into Darkness, what we didn't realize is that the comics WERE the clue. They took the classic episodes we all know, then updated them and changed them around. I have to admit, I was upset when they were setting up the Kirk/Spock glass scene till I remembered that this is what the comics were doing and I loved the comics.

Speaking of the comics/tie-ins, while a few details got shout-outs, most of it was contradictory.

"The Mudd Incident": If they are referring to the "Countdown To Darkness" series, you'd think they'd call it the "April Incident", since while the ship may have been Bajoran Chick Mudd's, the main issue was the former captian of (an) Enterprise, Robert April showing up after being presumed dead and then taking over the ship.

"How many people have I lost? NONE.": Several people die in the comics. Including Kirk's friend Gary Mitchell.

The Gorn: McCoy mentions helping a Gorn give birth to octuplets. Unfortunately, the "Gorn" are supposedly introduced in the "canon" Video Game as an alien agressor from ANOTHER GALAXY whom the crew are introduced to and wipe out during the course of the game. McCoy is indeed in sickbay ("Medbay", they call it in the Game for some reason) with Gorn, but they're all male and all trying to kill him.

NX-01: I love that Marcus has models in his office which include all of the ships from the intro to "Enterprise" including NX-01. The issue would be that we see an NX class ship in the comics, and it has nacelles more similiar to all of the others in this new universe. Not that we can trust the comics' potrayal of ships, the Mirror Universe comics have the JJ Universe crew flying around in the Enterprise Refit from the original films.

I'm not saying you shouldn't read the comics, you should, I'm just saying that they don't do very well with the very simple "canon" they've set themselves up with.

There were some things I didn't like. I didn't like the use of Spock Prime. What's humorous is that it played EXACTLY how I mocked on one of the Trek podcasts we recorded months ago. I haven't found which episode, but I remember exactly what I said:

"They can't have Spock Prime in the movie. That'd be dumb. What are they going to do, have Spock call and say 'Hey, we ran into a guy named Khan. Do you know him?' 'Yeah, he's totally evil.' 'How'd you beat him?' 'I died.'"

You could lose that scene and nothing of the main film would be different. What's really sad is Nimoy tweeted before the movie came out here in the States that he was honored to have a surprise cameo talking about Khan, which ruined two pretty big reveals.

I do kind of wish that Cumberbatch played a different Augment. Not just because he's white (at this point if you believe the universes were identical before Nero came, then you're crazy), but because a lot of the "retread" complaining would be nipped in the bud. Or have him CLAIM to be Khan, even to Marcus, then at the end when they show all of the cryotubes and it pans over to show the contents of one, it could be a CG Ricardo Maltaban (they won't go back to the well, why not?).

I'm still not sure about the revamped interior of Engineering. I just assumed they didn't show the Warp Core in 09, and that it would be the same tech from the original. Then it shows up looking like something from NASA, which I suppose is more "real"... See, I just don't know.

I do think playing with the sacrifice at the end was pretty smart. Instead of Spock sacrificing himself because it was logical and the culmination of 15 years of friendship, it was the catalyst that makes the crew an unbreakable bond. The film explores a lot of deeper elements, about emotion, war, terror, and other things. I appreciated that.

Overall, I feel that it's a fun twist on the Khan story, with twists & turns NO ONE saw coming. I would recommend it to anyone.

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doubleofive said:

"They can't have Spock Prime in the movie. That'd be dumb. What are they going to do, have Spock call and say 'Hey, we ran into a guy named Khan. Do you know him?' 'Yeah, he's totally evil.' 'How'd you beat him?' 'I died.'"

you forgot there was also a bit about them going into a nebula to even the odds a little.

doubleofive said:

 (at this point if you believe the universes were identical before Nero came, then you're crazy),

um . . . isn't that whole basis for this alternate timeline, that Nero changed time and that why everything so different from the universe of the original Trek?

doubleofive said:

it could be a CG Ricardo Maltaban (they won't go back to the well, why not?).

with all the other characters being played by different actors, it wouldn't make sense for Maltaban to still be Khan.    There is also another problem: Maltaban is dead.

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timdiggerm said:

Yeah, I think at this point is is best to admit (and I am glad we've reached this point) that canon is forever loosey-goosey.

one could argue it is due to the fact that Nero damaged the timeline,  so things are in a state of change

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Johnny Ringo said:

RE: Khan's magic blood and the sick girl / dead Kirk - that's why they had that awkward scene with the dead Tribble.

yes, but the tribble didn't come back to life until it after Kirk was dead for awhile.