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Star Trek Into Darkness Full Spoiler Discussion

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Out of respect for folks like 005 that don't want to know THE SURPRISE, let's talk about things here, about how much the movie is ruined, etc.

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The guy at IMDB deleted all of his comments before I could save them.

 

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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All I've seen (having also missed some of that, I think), is that Harrison is Khan, and Admiral Marcus is holding the rest of Khan's men (still in cryo) hostage while Khan does his bidding: Stirring up tension (and thus war) between the Federation & the Klingon Empire.

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You missed a pretty big one

Even though it's a spoiler thread, I'll give people a chance to avoid this.

MAJOR SPOILER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pike dies (probably was expected).

But more importantly.............Kirk dies. The climax of the film essentially flips his and Spock's places from TWOK. Kirk dies from radiation. Earlier in the film we learn that Khan's blood can heal. If you saw the IMAX prologue that's how Khan heals that guy's daughter (then recruits him to do something). Bones discovers Khan's blood heals by injecting it into a dead Tribble and seeing it come back alive. So at the end of the film Spock is chasing down Khan in order to get his blood and save Kirk. They succeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

/ END MAJOR SPOILERS

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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georgec said:

Pike dies (probably was expected).

Yeah, knew that

But more importantly.............Kirk dies. The climax of the film essentially flips his and Spock's places from TWOK. Kirk dies from radiation. Earlier in the film we learn that Khan's blood can heal. If you saw the IMAX prologue that's how Khan heals that guy's daughter (then recruits him to do something). Bones discovers Khan's blood heals by injecting it into a dead Tribble and seeing it come back alive. So at the end of the film Spock is chasing down Khan in order to get his blood and save Kirk. They succeed.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part. Cool cool cool.

Although....how can you kill Khan, then?

 

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I'm not sure. From the IMDb poster's comments I think it's unclear whether Khan is killed or not (or he just didn't mention it).

The spoilers confirm what I've anticipated - long-running ST fans are probably going to hate this movie even more than ST09.

Abrams' ST movies are more about introducing new generations of fans to ST (or at least a version of ST) rather than "continuing" the saga's lore/mythology. This is perfectly fine, but I can foresee a huge throng of ST fans experiencing the same concerns from ST09 but to a greater degree.

Abrams' writing trio of Kurtzman/Orci/Lindelof has basically taken the TOS episode "Space Seed" plus TWOK and reworked them into a new version of the story. While I expect to enjoy the movie I think it just shows another example of how much those three writers blow, especially Lindelof. It's one thing to use source material to come up with a new story, it's another to borrow heavily and not actually develop a new or interesting story. Switching Kirk and Spock from TWOK's shocker doesn't really strike me as a bold creative choice - it's rather a very easy one. "How can we do Khan but have a different ending? Oh, let's have Kirk die instead."

I like ST but didn't watch any series loyally as I grew up. So I'm not 'offended' or put off by any liberties Abrams and co. have taken with the story since, again, it's a modernized interpretation intended to primarily appeal to new fans.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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Threads like this make it hard for me to reach my goal of responding to every forum post ever.

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Huh. Well, that's less than stellar. (....that's.... that's a joke.)

Anyway, at least the ending would prevent the next movie from being called 'Star Trek Back 2 Life' and involve Kirk haunting Uhura and they have to go to the Revelation planet to find his body and reunite him with his... ghost essence. 

Then time travel to 2017 to get turtles to talk to space. 

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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 (Edited)

I am glad they resolve Kirk's death with life before the film ends. Yes, Spock's death was a great thing, and his return was good too (except for "Jim...your name is Jim!" :D :D :D :D ), but Kirk probably shouldn't have all that. It would be too much like the old movies - and that's saying something for this film.

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Lindelof is reading the bit about the revelation planet and turtles talking to space and wondering how the hell Hal 9000 got a hold of his notes for ST09 parts 3 and 4.

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Killing Kirk has already been done and poorly in a movie called generations.

I hope these rumors are false, if true just how badly will JJ ruin star wars VII.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

I hope these rumors are false, if true just how badly will JJ ruin star wars VII.

They're either true or there's a massive conspiracy of people lying about what they've seen and no one from the actual premiere (or other screenings) contradicting them.

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okay so SPOILERS....obviously - 

Cumberbatch is KHAN and he is one of two villains - and kind of the lesser - the real Monster here is ADMIRAL MARCUS. 

It's only when KHAN fails to escape WITH his people [still in cryo] that he turns really nasty. 

The basic rundown is that Marcus and Section 31 [I love to hate those guys] search for and find KHAN and his crew - they awaken KHAN and force him to help them design weapons so that they can PROVOKE a war with the KLINGONS.

MARCUS is building a Warship in secret that is much larger than the enterprise - can travel faster warp speeds - can fire while at warp!!! - can't recall if they actually reference the ship by name in the movie.

The ending of the Film borrows heavily from TWOK but with roles changed around. Kirk dies of radiation - Spock screams out "KHAAAAAAAAAAN" - oh, and they still outsmart him with some quick thinking.

Prime spock [Nimoy] makes an appearance. He tells Quinto-Spock that he doesn't want to interfere - then tells him how dangerous Khan is - then doesn't bother to tell him ANYTHING USEFUL in defeating that man. Pointless cameo was pointless.

There is mention of New Vulcan but we don't get to see it.

Khan teleports from EARTH to KRONOS [english spelling] using Scotty's site to site algorithm from the previous film.

CAROL MARCUS lies about her identity to slip aboard the enterprise - she suspects her father is up to something.

In the end they just put KHAN back into cryo in a warehouse and set out on the 'five year mission'

Despite all that I really enjoyed the film. It plays a lot better onscreen than it reads in text.

 

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Johnny Ringo said:

 

MARCUS is building a Warship in secret that is much larger than the enterprise - can travel faster warp speeds - can fire while at warp!!! - can't recall if they actually reference the ship by name in the movie.

The Vengeance.

In the end they just put KHAN back into cryo in a warehouse and set out on the 'five year mission'

Oh good :)

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Saw it today. It was silly, but a lot of fun. 3D was nothing to write home about.

I was a little disappointed that Kirk didn't say 'Second Star to the right, and straight on til morning' or something like that at the end of the film, what with all the other references in this film. Nevermind.

Cumberbatch didn't really need to be Khan. He was a good baddie, but he could've been Joachim (or Joaquin, however it's pronounced.) That might've actually been better.

I liked it quite a lot, despite a lot of the stupid stuff. I'll definitely go see it again.

 

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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greenpenguino said:

I was a little disappointed that Kirk didn't say 'Second Star to the right, and straight on til morning' or something like that at the end of the film, what with all the other references in this film. Nevermind.

I was half expecting that too.

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 (Edited)

So apparently they lied to us and did exactly remake star trek II a classic film instead of tell an original story.  So much fail.

What was the point of creating a new timeline/universe if you are going to rehash.

Orci and Kurtzmen are outright hacks for this story.

4 years of waiting all in vain.  Now very very worried about Star Wars VII.

And i pretty much figured that Robocop/ Weller was the baddie from the beginning he was a bad guy on Enterprise also.

Still laughing at the fact they remade star trek II a 3rd time but instead of ripping it off like nemesis and trek 2009 they literally remade star trek II.

Wish i could travel back in time 4 years and tell Orci to not Rehash Nick Meyers story.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Orci and Kurtzmen and Lindelof are outright hacks for this story.

Fixed

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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skyjedi2005 said:

4 years of waiting all in vain.  Now very very worried about Star Wars VII.

Different writers. Was it a well-directed film, aside from its script?

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timdiggerm said:

skyjedi2005 said:

4 years of waiting all in vain.  Now very very worried about Star Wars VII.

Different writers. Was it a well-directed film, aside from its script?

Fair enough.  His directing was well above average for this kind of summer action spectacle.

The story is absolute rubbish if not for the cast's chemistry it would fall apart.

So yeah good on JJ for saving another crappy script.  Can't they hire decent writers for  star trek III or XIII depending on what you call it.Or if Orci and Friends must write it please come up with at least an inkling of New Worlds, New Civlilizations, New Characters.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Saw it yesterday. Luckily we have the new digital 72 foot Giant Screen in Birmingham. A much better 3D system by far. No crosstalk at al and proper brightness and colours. This film looked amazing in 3D. It just shows that 3D needs a good system to get the most out of it. The 3D in this film was perfect that it did surprise me when watching it how many people have said that the 3D wasn't good. It was the best i had ever seen.And the sound system there was unbelievable. Doubt i will go to any other cinema to see a 3D film again.

The film itself was a great ride. The only thing that slightly annoyed me was Benedict playing Khan. Yeh, i know it's an alternate timeline and all that, but Khan and his cohorts were created BEFORE the timeline went off in the new direction. So why has he suddenly changed race? Wasn't Khan supposed to have been Indian? Not a British white guy? But apart from that Benedict played a good villain, even if he wasn't the main one.

The SPFX were amazing. Really liked the new Warp FX (especially in 3D). The lens flares were tones right down, nothing like the first one.

Johnny Ringo said:

Prime spock [Nimoy] makes an appearance. He tells Quinto-Spock that he doesn't want to interfere - then tells him how dangerous Khan is - then doesn't bother to tell him ANYTHING USEFUL in defeating that man. Pointless cameo was pointless.

The scene cuts off before Spock gives the information.

 

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 (Edited)

Went to see it with my dad today.

Hmmm, I feel like the last three Trek movies, Nemesis, J.J. Trek, and now Into Darkness have all been, at least to some degree, rehashes of The Wrath of Khan. I love The Wrath of Khan, not only is it a great Star Trek movie, but it is just a great sci-fi movie. But come on, how many times do we need to see the same loose story retold?

One of the great things about sci-fi is the ability to explore strange new places, ideas, and concepts through fiction. In sci-fi you have a storytelling environment where you can literally go anywhere and do anything. I can still remember various great and fun imagination inspiring sci-fi concepts introduced to me through each of the Star Trek TV shows, from TOS to Voyager. 

Into Darkness doesn't give us anything new that we haven't seen before. It doesn't even come close to giving us the emotional responses that The Wrath of Khan did. What it does give us is a formulaic story, poorly written dialogue, and next to no character development at all. 

 

And I swear, for Bones' dialogue, they must have just come up with a computer algorithm that they feed the interacting character's lines into, and in turn it generates an appropriate response using direct DeForest Kelly quotes from the old series. The character is not even a character in this movie, just a bunch of witty quips, with a couple of lines of dialogue relevant to the overall plot.

 

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With all the above being said, I found it a lot more enjoyable than the first one.

So as not to be a complete Negative Nelly, a few things I really liked about it:

Cumberbatch was pretty fantastic. I'd be lying if I said I didn't find myself rooting for him most of the movie.

Simon Pegg's Scotty. I've always liked Pegg, but felt he didn't really work as Scotty in the first film. In this film, he seemed to try to be less of an impersonation of James Doohan, and managed to make the character his own. Scotty was one character in this movie that really worked well and was likeable and relatable. They actually gave him stuff to do in this film, which gave him an advantage over the rest of the main cast outside of Kirk and Spock, who essentially served as little more than props.

 

Things I really didn't like at all:

The new Klingon look. Looked way too much like the Romulans from the first film. Not a fan of the less organic looking ridges, and it felt kind of cheap that we get to watch Khan slay a ton of these guys, while only ever seeing one of their faces. Maybe if Klingons make a bigger appearance in the next film, their look will be fleshed out a little more.

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There are so many variations on Klingons from TMP through DS9, the one we see in the movie doesn't mean they all look like that.

I'm still digesting the film, but at least I remained mostly spoiler free to the end. I wanted something more than TWOK turned inside out, but newer fans ought to like it.

Not happy about Pike dying. The poor guy was slightly better off in the original timeline!

Lots of subtle references to past series and films (other than TWOK) if you know where to look. Seems they have already been to Station K7. ;)

How the heck did they keep a lid on Nimoy's cameo? Bet they shot it in someone's house. Damn good to see him in any case.

Jim Kirk is still a Beastie Boys fan. His feline ladyfriends should have looked more like Lt. M'ress though.

Kirk's parents were in the cast credits, was something cut at the eleventh hour?

And security officer "Cupcake" was back, although not referred to by name.

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Deleted scenes maybe? - at least his Mom. Dad died with the Kelvin. Although they could [and should] bring in Hemsworth to play his adult brother.

Interesting that there wasn't some sort of public backlash [shown] after a the Vengeance crash. a warship built in secret crashlands into the middle of the city and eveyone is okay with that.

With the enterprise off to explore deep space it'd be interesting to see the size and strength of the starfleet after the loses in these two movies.

I don't really have a problem with Khan played by a brit - Montalban wasn't Indian either. And John Cho isn't Japanese.