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Star Trek Deep Space Nine - NTSC DVD Restoration & 1080p HD Enhancement (Emissary Released) — Page 3

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Baobab Archiver said:

Glad to help 😃
It’s one of those projects that interests me, but I have so many others on the go I’m glad someone else is taking the helm (no pun intended) and working on it!

As far as sharing goes, you would need to share via PM only. There are hosting sites you can use, but I believe sharing links in public messages would be against site rules.

No problem. I also have multiple projects on the go and a day job as well. Since my R&R will be over by the end of this week and my day job will kick in again next week, I will probably have to slow down a bit, but there are the weekends, so that should work out still.

Also, I will invite you guys by pm into a group and share the 4K-Link for the complete episode there.
I already thought it would probably be a bad idea, so thanks again, wouldn’t want to be blocked for a stupid oversight like that.

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Baobab Archiver said:
I’m not sure if these will be a better source or not, but worth a look.

Looking at the JPGs these upscales might have less compression artifacts than the DVDs. In terms of visual detail, it’s in line with a good 640x480 master tape. Again, might be slightly better than the DVDs.

I too would like a sample of the unaltered capture. I just want to run some filters on VirtualDub. We have a tricky situation here with 60i » 24p / 30p content…
This will not interfere with Animaxx’s work, just experimenting other possible solutions.

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Baobab Archiver said:

OK, here are some sample images from my DS9 capture:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1W9A_exZvWXeF6OjYvUyQLBnSIINBcbgQ?usp=sharing

All I have done is run a field correction pass (using tfm in Avisynth).
The images are then saved at max quality jpg, to reduce the chance of the image further degrading.

I’m not sure if these will be a better source or not, but worth a look.

@Animaxx - I’ll upload the full unaltered capture file overnight and share with you via PM tomorrow.

Just had a look at the pictures. They seem to be comparable to the shots I know from the Stargate and Voyager upscale SyFy did. It’s difficult to judge, I will wait for the actual capture.

They look a little on the soft side (probably due to noise and grain reduction). Let’s wait and see.
Thanks again for your work.

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4throck said:

Baobab Archiver said:
I’m not sure if these will be a better source or not, but worth a look.

Looking at the JPGs these upscales might have less compression artifacts than the DVDs. In terms of visual detail, it’s in line with a good 640x480 master tape. Again, might be slightly better than the DVDs.

I too would like a sample of the unaltered capture. I just want to run some filters on VirtualDub. We have a tricky situation here with 60i » 24p / 30p content…
This will not interfere with Animaxx’s work, just experimenting other possible solutions.

I like some good interference 😃

As I said before, I would be willing to adjust my work when something “better” comes along.

I would of course also continue my own work, so things will be “out there”.

As for the tricky situation with 60i to 24p/30p I would paraphrase Kirk: All I want is a studio master 😃

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Animaxx said:

the 4K-Version will be ready to upload some time tomorrow,

Excellent, I can’t wait. I’m excited about the potential this project has.

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Artan42 said:

Animaxx said:

the 4K-Version will be ready to upload some time tomorrow,

Excellent, I can’t wait. I’m excited about the potential this project has.

Frankly, I’m excited as well, considerung what the software/AI can do. In fact, right now I’m working on a little “treat” for all of us here.
Remember the battle scenes in the season 6 episode “Sacrifice of Angels”? I cut out a little segment (about 14 seconds long) to see what the AI and the filters can do on that. It’s just to compare the quality between the first and later seasons and to see what the space battles could look like.

My machine should be able to handle that small clip without disrupting the work on the pilot. I will upload the segment as soon as it is done. I can’t wait to see myself.

😃

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Animaxx said:
They look a little on the soft side (probably due to noise and grain reduction). Let’s wait and see.

The general softness can mean that they are free from edge enhancement.
But I agree that on gradients and low contrast areas there’s almost no detail. Compression is really hard here.
On the other hand DVDs usually have macroblocks on such areas…

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4throck said:

Animaxx said:
They look a little on the soft side (probably due to noise and grain reduction). Let’s wait and see.

The general softness can mean that they are free from edge enhancement.
But I agree that on gradients and low contrast areas there’s almost no detail. Compression is really hard here.
On the other hand DVDs usually have macroblocks on such areas…

Yeah, it’s always something, isn’t it? With the original first 90 seconds of the pilot I provided I had similar issues. When doing the filterwork (with sharpening especially) i stumbled across the same damned thing.
When avoiding edge enhancement, it looked soft and lacked detail, when sharpening to much blocks appeared (really bad when pausing the cube destroying the excelsior class vessel, the saucer being ripped apart showed heavy blocks in the red explosive areas, almost like a mosaic).

It’s too bad that in the old days they basically had the means and the equipment, but technology in the consumer segment didn’t support what was there, so they had to squeeze and reduce until it made it onto the old screens. A shame, really.
Many of the old shows suffer from it.

Anyone seen an episode of Earth: Final Conflict lately? Same thing. Details are so hard to spot. The DVDs improved things a little, but still - with the effects they did back then it’s a disgrace there is no HD for it, just like DS9 and Voyager.

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I’ve analyzed the pilot’s DVD video structure and I have good and bad news.

The good news both the live action and effect shots are at 24 fps, encoded as 3:2 pulldown. So no separate processing is needed. (The initial crawl is at 30 fps but I think it can be disregarded)

The bad news is that the show was edited on video (60/30 fps), so scene changes don’t match 24fps.
That is, scene changes can occur at any frame, and break the 3:2 pulldown pattern.
So we get interlaced frames here and there, until the pulldown filter adapts. I’m using VirtualDub, but the same should apply to other software.
3:2 pulldown only: https://streamable.com/xg8qrs

One option is to run a deinterlacer over the 24fps material. You end up with some duplicate frames and deinterlace artifacts.
3:2 pulldown + deinterlace: https://streamable.com/4i214c

Another option is to simulate what an old CRT would do, and simply deinterlace everything and present it at 60fps. You get duplicate frames and some deinterlace artifacts, but it doesn’t look bad.
Deinterlace to 60p: https://streamable.com/wqrhbi

I decided to try a frame based upscaler on the first 2 versions.
On top you have the result at 960x720. On the bottom row I unsharpened to images to analyze detail.
As expected the 3:2 pulldown only version has better detail.
https://images2.imagebam.com/39/03/7e/a32a6c1349363260.png

So it’s a tricky situation…

PS - all DVD samples had level, gamma and saturation adjusted. I also run a chroma filter to get rid of line artifacts on some frames.

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Ok guys, it’s almost done. I’m uploading the pilot now, it will take about 2 hours.

Filesize will be 5,7 GB (a bit larger than I thought, my goal was 5 GB), but I think on 4K that should be ok.
Exact display size is 2920x2160 (4:3 format) at 23,976 FPS. Audio will be available in english and german as AC3 5.1 with the german audio being pitch adjusted to sound the way it should; the english track is set to play as standard (primary) language, but you can switch to german in case you like it or have someone who needs it.
Unfortunately there are no subs and chapters, but I think that isn’t as important as having the actual episode ready to go.

As far as the work itself progresses, let’s call this 4K-Version of the pilot Edition 1.0.

Thanks to some pointers I’m working on improving things with VirtualDub, perhaps there will be an Edition 2.0 soon, who knows?

In about two hours I will post the link in the private topic. Anyone I might have forgotten please PM me, ok?

I would appreciate your opinions once you had a chance to watch the episode; a fresh pair of eyes might spot things I overlooked, since I have worked with it so much already I get the feeling I don’t notice as much anymore, know what I mean?

Once it’s up, I’ll make another little post here to inform you and post the link private.

Until then, can’t wait to hear your opinions!

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Hey guys, the 4K-Pilot is up!!! Google is still processing, but download is ready.
Link will be posted in private.

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Hello again. Just wanted to tell you a bit about Edition 2.0 of the 4K-Version of the pilot.

Since I got some valuable tips from members around here and the Edition 1.0 was ready to watch, I decided to get some additional feedback from my harshest test viewer: She is one of my best friends and known for always telling me the truth without mincing her words.

After she watched the pilot Edition 1.0 she was happy with the overall quality, but pointed out a few things she thought could be improved (her exact words were “Well, it looks nice, but if you’re going for it, then please don’t be half ass about it” - as I said, she has a direct way of talking but doesn’t mean it in a bad way, it’s just how she is and I happen to agree with her observations):

  1. She said I really need to increase contrast, lighting and colors (reminded me of member 4throck’s suggestions); her thoughts on that were "I know DS9 originally was a show with a lot of dark scenes, but I would like to actually see what’s going on without having to draw the blinds im my living room and turning it into a movie theatre)
  2. She also got a little “upset” about things looking a bit too artificial (her comment “You know I like watching old movies as well, and I can’t stand companies/broadcasters to “drain the grain”, so that people and things look like they just had plastic surgery or something; please keep a little grain, it looks more realistic”)

So, I experimented with introducing VirtualDub into my worfklow and adjusting the things mentioned above. As such, Edition 2.0 of the pilot is in the works and currently being upscaled to 4K-Resolution. Next is the final filter-work. I will post the “new version” as soon as it is done.

On that note, I would like to ask a favor of you guys, if I may: Once you have both Editions, please watch and compare and tell me which one is better (in your opinion), for example what elements (saturation etc.) should be kept/added and what you would like to see in the final version.

Afterwards, I would go on with the rest of the season/series.

Of course, I would still like to hear about Edition 1.0 before 2.0 is out, since I’m really excited about hearing back from you guys.

I’ll keep you updated.

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Early 1990s NTSC video was generally mastered to different monitors than we have today. So you need to adjust gamma, saturation and hue. In fact the colorspace might even be slightly different, but I don’t think there’s any software to handle that.

So your best bet is to adjust “by hand”. You can use the TNG remasters are reference, since uniforms and some sets will be similar.
Or you can take a look here: http://blog.trekcore.com/2019/05/exclusive-star-trek-deep-space-nine-hd-what-we-left-behind-footage/

On my tests I used something like gamma 1.4; saturation 130% and a -4% hue shift. Also clipped black a bit on levels.

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4throck said:

Early 1990s NTSC video was generally mastered to different monitors than we have today. So you need to adjust gamma, saturation and hue. In fact the colorspace might even be slightly different, but I don’t think there’s any software to handle that.

So your best bet is to adjust “by hand”. You can use the TNG remasters are reference, since uniforms and some sets will be similar.
Or you can take a look here: http://blog.trekcore.com/2019/05/exclusive-star-trek-deep-space-nine-hd-what-we-left-behind-footage/

On my tests I used something like gamma 1.4; saturation 130% and a -4% hue shift. Also clipped black a bit on levels.

Thanks for the tips, will see how I can apply them. Could you imagine what could be done with the original film? For DS9 it could perhaps be done in widescreen … Oh man, we can only dream.

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Hello again guys! Little update:

Unfortunately I won’t be done with the Edition 2.0 of the 4K-pilot by sunday, since I have been experimenting with new programs, settings and even changed the workflow around a little bit, but I think the results will certainly improve.

Thanks to some feedback and input I have been working on retaining more detail and creating a less “artificial” look on the final result and for now it looks quite promising.

Of course I will let you know as soon as it is ready. Since I am working again next week, I don’t know how fast it can be done, but I will of course keep you in the loop.

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How good is the quality of the Official DVD’s? I watched the marathon on BBC America which was just standard def video in an HD container. And the first 3 or so seasons looked worse than my old tapes which i no longer have. When i watch TOS or TNG i only ever watch the version restored from film which was scanned in 2K and is in 1080P on home video.

I want to watch DS9 and Voyager in real HD. CBS has no intention of doing so. I’ve seen some nice upscale samples but they always look digital and don’t look like film. It is sad most of Star Trek is barely even DVD quality. Voyager and DS9 are well below even DVD standards. I doubt there is even 480P in those old broadcast tapes. Probably at best 240 lines of resolution. Fit for VHS only.

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JadedSkywalker said:

How good is the quality of the Official DVD’s? I watched the marathon on BBC America which was just standard def video in an HD container. And the first 3 or so seasons looked worse than my old tapes which i no longer have. When i watch TOS or TNG i only ever watch the version restored from film which was scanned in 2K and is in 1080P on home video.

I want to watch DS9 and Voyager in real HD. CBS has no intention of doing so. I’ve seen some nice upscale samples but they always look digital and don’t look like film. It is sad most of Star Trek is barely even DVD quality. Voyager and DS9 are well below even DVD standards. I doubt there is even 480P in those old broadcast tapes. Probably at best 240 lines of resolution. Fit for VHS only.

Right now I am (or perhaps I should better say “we” around here) working on a restoration version that will be enhanced and upscaled to both 1080p and 4K; since the first attempt didn’t really hold up to expectations I am currently doing a work-over for a second edition.
If you’d like, you can pm me so I can provide you with a full version of the DS9 pilot episode as soon as it’s done.

Unfortunately, depending on what the broadcaster does, the upscaling can actually look worse (or in this case less detailed due to extensive softening). The DVDs (as long as they are the originals, not the bootlegs floating around) are ok in terms of quality (at least for standards from back then), but I must admit, I adjust my tv to only upscale to 1080p, not full 4K, since most devices give their best, but the lower the original quality the worse it looks the higher the resolution gets.

Anyway, let me know if you are interested in the combined efforts of the group as well as mine via pm.

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I just wanted to chime in and say how very thankful I am for Animaxx for taking this project on! I will be happy to help in any way I can, but my restoration skills are non-existent.

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pahuffman said:

I just wanted to chime in and say how very thankful I am for Animaxx for taking this project on! I will be happy to help in any way I can, but my restoration skills are non-existent.

Thanks. New version of the pilot is up. For a link please PM me.

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Also I will invite all of you guys some time around this weekend to a release topic, where i will present the finished and final version of the pilot and will then try to release one additional episode per week in season-order.

So check your invites everyone.

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Guys, just kill me.

Had a watch of the 4K-pilot I put out previously and while most of it looked good, there were several scenes that suffered from motion stuttering, and it actually kept getting worse as the episode went on up to the point during the final battle between the station and the cardassians that some frames actually doubled.

Since that is not the kind of “quality” I wanna give you I spend most of yesterday and today trying to figure out what happened and of course it came back to … VFR of the source (big surprise there, I know).

Turns out the approach with Virtual Dub and the Donald Graft filters (Telecide and Decimate) didn’t translate well.

I managed to at least “compensate” for the problem by skipping the pulldown removal and doing a straight forward encoding via Handbrake to a constant framerate of 23,976 FPS whilst performing Deinterlacing on all images (Decombing with EEDI2 Bob) and the results are better (still slight motion stutter, but not as bad as before). The Smart Deinterlacing from Handbrake I employed before unfortunately made things worse, since only the “effected” images were deinterlaced, causing more intense stutter there for some reason. With all images deinterlaced/decombed, things are looking up.

Unfortunately that means to re-encode all over. Sorry guys, I guess one can only judge once having seen the complete episode.

But I will keep at it and won’t let you down.

Now excuse me. I will have a little break treating myself to a personal re-run of VOY’s Macrocosm and watch Janeway get her Lara Croft on and kick some arse … I need to see someone venting some anger issues, otherwise I would probably beat up something for having to do things over.

I’ll keep you informed.

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Forgive me, but…
I read this thread from nearly the beginning and all of the discussion on doom9 ( https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=181209 ). 95% of your and all the others efforts seem to have been spent with trying to IVTC the NTSC-sources.
With the NTSC-masters - as you of course know, just to specify again - the problems were:

a) film, pulldowned to 29,97 with changing patterns, as usual
b) a lot of scenes, mostly CGI, originally produced in 29,97i
c) worst of all a lot of scenes with overlays of the two above(!), whch had been mentioned only sporadically, but is an eminent problem, because of being absolutely irreversible.
No matter how you handle this kind of content, you will never achieve results free from stutter, at least not the c)-scenes - also not by using VFR.

But there are also PAL-DVDs of the series, and as I just read, you own them. And concerning IVTC they did a really good job with these! I am currently watching it, one to three episodes every evening, and stutter-isues are very, very rare, about one or two each three or four episodes! (And I am trained to recognise these.)
So the question for me all the time was: Why don’t you just use the PAL-DVDs, deinterlace properly (QTGMC) if necessary, slow down and scale up, which was the real goal of this lovely project?

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FrankB said:

Forgive me, but…
I read this thread from nearly the beginning and all of the discussion on doom9 ( https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=181209 ). 95% of your and all the others efforts seem to have been spent with trying to IVTC the NTSC-sources.
With the NTSC-masters - as you of course know, just to specify again - the problems were:

a) film, pulldowned to 29,97 with changing patterns, as usual
b) a lot of scenes, mostly CGI, originally produced in 29,97i
c) worst of all a lot of scenes with overlays of the two above(!), whch had been mentioned only sporadically, but is an eminent problem, because of being absolutely irreversible.
No matter how you handle this kind of content, you will never achieve results free from stutter, at least not the c)-scenes - also not by using VFR.

But there are also PAL-DVDs of the series, and as I just read, you own them. And concerning IVTC they did a really good job with these! I am currently watching it, one to three episodes every evening, and stutter-isues are very, very rare, about one or two each three or four episodes! (And I am trained to recognise these.)
So the question for me all the time was: Why don’t you just use the PAL-DVDs, deinterlace properly (QTGMC) if necessary, slow down and scale up, which was the real goal of this lovely project?

Looks like I have to, for I can’t get rid of the NTSC-problems. Thanks for the advice.