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Spielberg comments on digital alterations to his films — Page 3

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CO said:

T2 and The Abyss are perfect movies where CGI makes them better, but does not overtake the movie.

The Prequels are loaded with CG and just looks like an animated movie (Episode I isn't that bad as that actually has real environments)  Episode II & III are just animated movies with real life characters and wont age well 20 years from now.

Who ever complained Mary Poppins had matte-work overtaking the movie? Does the fact the penguins are plainly 2D animated pen-and-ink figures date that movie terribly? Do the obviously stop-motion skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts overtake the movie?  Or is this simply anti-CG bias.

Acting as if the opening minutes of Ep. III aren't simply spectacular use of CGI, and that the Mustafar duel isn't a breathtaking accomplishment is just denying the overwhelming quality of the work.

If we're under the impression that the special effects in the OT have aged with amazing grace, take a look at the nits being picked in the fan-edit forum. And that's some of the best work with models, matte-paintings, puppets, and stop motion ever done. Take a gander at the middle of the pack special effects from 20-30 years ago.

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Bingowings said:

 

While the CGI makes some of the concepts in those films easier to render I am tempted to think that some of the sequences were built around the ability to make those images rather than to illustrate the story in the best way possible.

The water tendril in The Abyss looks good to this day but is it necessary to the story?

Terminator 2 (putting aside my belief that it wasn't that good and not at all necessary) sometimes used CGI to make core story concepts possible but like The Abyss was often used to tediously show off what was then possible and shoe-horned it into the story.

 But The CGI aspects of the Robert Patrick character do make the movie better, simply because it shows the difference between the Arnold Terminator Model, and a new advanced Robert Patrick Terminator model.  So in that sense, Cameron succeeded because you are seeing the technology of the Terminator right in front of your face.

Now of course Cameron, Spielberg, Lucas, etc, all want to use the CGI to show off something new to the fans, but Cameron doesn't go overboard in T2 and The Abyss where the movie becomes a videogame with actors.  They use CGI specifically to tell the story better, and I have no problem with it.

I'm sure we have all talked about this before, but Coruscant is a CGI environment that looks exactly like the real environment from Bladerunner.

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I thought that the T-Rex effects in Jurassic Park were terrific.

I have nothing against CGI, just opposed to Lucas' use of CGI in the OT.  It's hard to generalize this situation, because it is rather unprecedented.

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Personally, the great use of CGI I was referencing was the CGI used in Cast Away.  It added to the film and was for the most part unrecognizable as CGI.

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 (Edited)

I'm really glad to hear Spielberg make those comments, though I'm not totally surprised. He once said he'd keep shooting his movies on film until Kodak shut the last remaining lab down, so he's got that old-school streak in him

But, it's still refreshing to hear him say there won't be any future digital alterations to his films. :-)

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Mielr said:

it's still refreshing to hear him say there won't be any future digital alterations to his films. :-)

Agreed.  Considering Jaws is one of my top ten films and that the Indiana Jones franchise is a collective top ten entry as well, , it's nice to know they won't be jacked with.

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Full interview up: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49921

I'm not post the whole thing but i will quote the last part:

Quint: Before I let you go, I do want to say that you need to quit beating up so much on Temple of Doom. I love that movie.

Steven Spielberg: You know, sometimes I can’t help myself. But the greatest thing about Temple of Doom was I met Kate Capshaw and I have seven children. We’ve been married for almost 20 years and that was my win on that movie.

Quint: I met Kate very briefly at the War of the Worlds premiere in New York and I made sure to tell her “I know you probably don’t get it enough, but you’re great in Temple of Doom.”

Steven Spielberg: You’re sweet. By the way, she is great in Temple of Doom and I’m very, very lucky to have found my life partner.

Quint: I love that movie because it’s so dramatically different from Raiders. The tone is different, you go from a suave villain in Belloq to a flashy villain in Mola Ram…

Steven Spielberg: Right. Here’s the thing… for all the fans of Temple of Doom who think I beat up too much on it, those fans who beat up on George Lucas 24/7 at the drop of any fedora, I would just say please give George credit. He’s the one that made it dark, he’s the one that decided on the story and on the concept. For all those who love Temple of Doom, you’ve gotta give George credit.

Quint: I’ll absolutely give George credit for that.

 

Ok I'll give credit to George, I have a great love for Temple of Doom.

But it's also pretty funny because I know there's a lot of people that hate TOD, so does that mean Spielberg has given them permission to lay the blame on Lucas. It's also funny that Spielberg is fully aware of the hate Lucas gets from fans.

 

 

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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I watched TOD 17 times during it's open run Ok most of that was so I could see Harrison's chesty parts while my hormones were still doing their thing but it has some well structured action scenes in it.

It's a roller coaster but it's not a story.

The rather wonky view of Hinduism and the bizarre politics of a white American with a little help from a screaming woman, a mini-Oriental stereotype and the frellin Raj (!!!!) saving poor Indians from savage Indians, is something I can imagine Spielberg would love to blame on George.

Raiders had action sequences and a story and Nazis are very difficult to misrepresent as evil.

All the major characters are well rounded.

Compare Sallah and Brody in Raiders to their counterparts in TLC and it's hard to imagine they are meant to be the same characters.

The sequels and prequels to Raiders aren't mucked up by CGI, they are mucked up by inconsistent craftsmanship.

Harrison's boobs were a work of art though.

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You're just making it sound even more awesome.

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No I am.

A still beating and flaming heart is removed from the chest of a human sacrifice by the central villain.

Kali Ma!

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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The banquet scene still freaks me out more than anything else.

You'd think they would have a stand next to the Indy ride at Disneyland selling chilled monkey brains!

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Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

I hated temple of doom and i hated crystal skull, now i sort of like parts of doom like the mine cart chase, but i still cannot stand shortround or the screaming chick anymore than Jar Jar Binks.

But hey at least the stunts and filming were all done in the raw and real not digital and no cgi cartoons were inserted.

There are also some pure indy moments in skull that i love but they are few and far between and obvious are Speilbergs doing, the prequel era lucasiism's ruined the rest of the movie.  I cannot watch Last Crusade and enjoy as i once did either because they made Brodie into a moron and Sallah into a racist caricature.

So all in all there may as well be only 1 Indiana Jones film that is Good, Raiders of the Lost Ark.  Yes their are some silly moments there but not to the point where the rest of the film is ruined or you lose willful suspension of disbelief.

The Jeffery Boam parts of Last Crusade work but not the Lucas parts.  One should give Lucas all the credit for Temple and those wonderful writers of Howard the Duck, Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz. Well okay they did write 35% of star wars and wrote American Graffiti, but doom and duck both sucked as scripts.  Doom was obviously a very entertaining action spectacle.

The only nearly perfect script is Kasdan's Raiders.  And they moved the mine cart chase and shanghai to Doom.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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TheBoost said:

CO said:

T2 and The Abyss are perfect movies where CGI makes them better, but does not overtake the movie.

The Prequels are loaded with CG and just looks like an animated movie (Episode I isn't that bad as that actually has real environments)  Episode II & III are just animated movies with real life characters and wont age well 20 years from now.

Who ever complained Mary Poppins had matte-work overtaking the movie? Does the fact the penguins are plainly 2D animated pen-and-ink figures date that movie terribly? Do the obviously stop-motion skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts overtake the movie?  Or is this simply anti-CG bias.

Acting as if the opening minutes of Ep. III aren't simply spectacular use of CGI, and that the Mustafar duel isn't a breathtaking accomplishment is just denying the overwhelming quality of the work.

If we're under the impression that the special effects in the OT have aged with amazing grace, take a look at the nits being picked in the fan-edit forum. And that's some of the best work with models, matte-paintings, puppets, and stop motion ever done. Take a gander at the middle of the pack special effects from 20-30 years ago.

I think a plurality concede that CGI is a great tool. Two problems with it are that it is so pervasive and it is inferior to certain physical effects.

The pervasiveness means that the special effect isn't usually something in the background that receives little attention (like matte paintings) but is all over the place (eg Ronto butt). We are forced to confront the unreality (eg Ronto butt) and CGI looks especially unreal when placed in actual footage. If it is going to be at the forefront, it better be very well done, whether CGI or physical.

For biological entities, the unreality is especially glaring. But what happens when we need unreal entities (eg fighting skeletons, Gollum, Yoda)? I find puppet Yoda far more real than CGI Yoda. This doesn't mean puppet Yoda is flawless or that I am utterly fooled into believing Yoda is actually real. But puppet Yoda is one super awesome puppet. And not having seen a living Yoda before, I am sufficiently fooled. But having seen puppet Yoda (as well as real cloth), CGI Yoda really does pale in comparison. I think EyeShotFirst is absolutely right on this point. Gollum works in large part because we haven't seen him before. We are glad to suspend disbelief for special effects, including CGI, but that does not make CGI superior (I've always disliked the unreality of Gollum's fall into the lava, btw). If we look with a more critical eye, Gollum is cartoonish and would pale in comparison to physical effects. Compare puppet and CGI Sy Snootles.

Imagine if Lucas had today's CGI in 1977. Perhaps Chewbacca would be the bushbaby that Lucas always wanted with unreal CGI hair. We wouldn't have the same kind of expression in Mayhew's eyes, his shrug at the droid, the basic reality that comes with human movement (which CGI can only capture up to an extent). When we must use physical effects, reality imposes design compromises and time for designs to evolve more radically than George commanding, 'go cook me up this bushbaby guy on the computer.'

I imagine CGI could do a better job than stop motion for the distant shot of Luke's Tauntaun, for fighting skeletons, and allow for more spectacular space battles. But that doesn't mean it should be everywhere.

CGI isn't bad, it's just not as great as many believe.

The blue elephant in the room.

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I've been rewatching the prequels, and what doesn't work for me about digital Yoda is that he looks like a moving oil painting most of the time. I don't know how else to describe it.

One of the trade federation aliens in the conference room in Episode II also looks this way.

All the background Wookiees tend to stick out as CGI when you've seen that shot in Episode III a few times.

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Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

The banquet scene still freaks me out more than anything else.

You'd think they would have a stand next to the Indy ride at Disneyland selling chilled monkey brains!

This is another aspect of the film I find repulsive (in the wrong way).

India has possibly the best cuisine on the planet and yet they have a running gag about how not only is the food of the evil palace court insanely disgusting but the poor villagers too.

There was the potential for a very clever gag (no pun intended) there.

Willie could turn her nose up at the villager's food but actually find it delicious and she could then sit down to a delicious looking banquet which has been drugged (in readiness for her sacrifice) and start to see snakes coming out cakes and eyeballs in the soup which weren't really there.

Nobody notices because they just think she is an hysterical American, she is trying to pretend not to care because of her earlier embarrassment in the village but it sets up that something odd is happening to the people at the palace.

It would turn a rather racist joke into a Lynchian nightmare.

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Sounds better, but then wouldn't Indy be drugged, like... three times in the same movie? I suppose you want them to pee on his rug too :)
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Bingowings said:

It's a roller coaster but it's not a story.

The rather wonky view of Hinduism and the bizarre politics of a white American with a little help from a screaming woman, a mini-Oriental stereotype....

I agree.  Temple is my least favorite of the four.  It's just too much of a stretch at times.  Not in a "man, get out of here, that can't happen" sort of way, but in more of an "alright- enough already with the screaming, the comic relief, and the cringe-worthy Chinese stereotype" sort of way.

 

Compare Sallah and Brody in Raiders to their counterparts in TLC and it's hard to imagine they are meant to be the same characters.

The dumbing down and comic turn of those two characters has always been my biggest problem with Crusade.  Fortunately they aren't like that in the novels, which I'm a huge fan of. In fact, I read those much more often than I watch the films.

 

The sequels and prequels to Raiders aren't mucked up by CGI, they are mucked up by inconsistent craftsmanship.

I'm a big fan of all four films, but no doubt there are some areas in each that I would have done differently.  None are deal-breakers though.  My Indiana Jones marathons last a lot longer than My Star Wars marathons.    ;-)

Still though, the portions I would have done differently in all four and the bits I don't care for are all because of writing, none are because of dodgy matte or CGI.  I'm along for the story.

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Anchorhead said:

Bingowings said:

It's a roller coaster but it's not a story.

The rather wonky view of Hinduism and the bizarre politics of a white American with a little help from a screaming woman, a mini-Oriental stereotype....

I agree.  Temple is my least favorite of the four.  It's just too much of a stretch at times.  Not in a "man, get out of here, that can't happen" sort of way, but in more of an "alright- enough already with the screaming, the comic relief, and the cringe-worthy Chinese stereotype" sort of way.

You should check out Infodroid's fanedit sometime.

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 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

SilverWook said:

The banquet scene still freaks me out more than anything else.

You'd think they would have a stand next to the Indy ride at Disneyland selling chilled monkey brains!

This is another aspect of the film I find repulsive (in the wrong way).

India has possibly the best cuisine on the planet and yet they have a running gag about how not only is the food of the evil palace court insanely disgusting but the poor villagers too.

There was the potential for a very clever gag (no pun intended) there.

Willie could turn her nose up at the villager's food but actually find it delicious and she could then sit down to a delicious looking banquet which has been drugged (in readiness for her sacrifice) and start to see snakes coming out cakes and eyeballs in the soup which weren't really there.

Nobody notices because they just think she is an hysterical American, she is trying to pretend not to care because of her earlier embarrassment in the village but it sets up that something odd is happening to the people at the palace.

It would turn a rather racist joke into a Lynchian nightmare.

 Actually, there was a scene which took place after the banquet. Indy says that he knows Indian cuisine and they would never serve what he saw there. This is his first tip off that something isn't right at the palace and he discusses this with the colonel. Shame it was cut, because as you mentioned, it comes off as overtly racist and ignorant. Having said that, the Indy films themselves are all pretty racist simply due to their colonial-era setting in which the capable white man must drop in and lead his arab/latino/asian helpers to safety/victory/triumph, as though they could never be capable of doing it themselves.

Personally, I love TOD. Not only is it one of my favourite films, I think it's the best of the Indy series. There's a great story in there, it's just not quite as complex as Raiders', but it shouldn't be, because the film wouldn't be as intense or scary if it had all the convoluted scene changes and characters that Raiders and Last Crusade had; that level of complexity worked for the other two, because they are similar in style, but the second film is apart. TOD is a horror film, and horror films are all about the psychological experience of watching them, and that's why the sheer "ride" aspect of the film, the intensity, whether in character (evil Indy), in storyline (human sacrifice), in mis-en-scene (all the bones and blood and fire) or in action sequences (mine cart, spike room, etc,) is a fundamental and integral part of how the film is constructed and how--and why--it works. There is simply no other film on the planet like TOD and it's because no filmmaker had the balls to go as intense as Spielberg went with the amount of money he had at his disposal.

He tries to pass it off to Lucas now, but I don't buy that for a second, Spielberg knew exactly what he was doing and he took that dark, spooky, gorey aspect of the film and ran with it. Maybe Lucas pushed it that direction in the first place, but Spielberg perfected it. He was into that kind of thing at the time--he had just finished Poltergeist, remember.

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Bingowings said:

India has possibly the best cuisine on the planet 

Dammit - now I'm hungry for Navratan korma and naan.

 

It would turn a rather racist joke into a Lynchian nightmare.

Plus it would bookend nicely with Indy when he's Barney Rubbling later in the film.  ;-)

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zombie84 said:

TOD is a horror film, and horror films are all about the psychological experience of watching them, and that's why the sheer "ride" aspect of the film, the intensity, whether in character (evil Indy), in storyline (human sacrifice), in mis-en-scene (all the bones and blood and fire) or in action sequences (mine cart, spike room, etc,) is a fundamental and integral part of how the film is constructed and how--and why--it works.

Although of course you have every right to your artistic opinion, I completely disagree with this interpretation of the film.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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zombie84 said:

Personally, I love TOD. Not only is it one of my favourite films, I think it's the best of the Indy series. There's a great story in there, it's just not quite as complex as Raiders'...

Even though it's my least favorite, I agree that there is a very interesting story in there (great way to put it, by the way).  If it had been made more seriously, the way Raiders was, it could have been a very nice second outing for the character we met in the first film. 

There are some moments that really shine.  I really dig the scene when Indy he first arrives in the village and talks to the residents - very Raiders feeling.  I also like the portion of the film where they're riding the elephants up to the palace - "don't come up here".  Again, a good, Raiders-esque portion.  Unfortunately,  they're quickly countered with comedy and silliness.

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TOD rocks!  It's got the best opening adventure (granted ROTLA has a good one), the best music, and generally captures the serial style story telling better than the other films.  The whole second half of the movie is non-stop adventure.

I used to hate it too, but I watched it again about 6 years ago and thought to myself "What was I thinking?!  This is the best of the bunch!" 

I'm surprised TLC gets as much love as it does, since it's just a retread of ROTLA without as many exciting scenes (the opening adventure is really weak), plus a lot of BAD comic relief (some of it works, though) and too many winks to the audience.  It was a real crowd pleaser at the time (especially for me, since I was only 8 years old or something), but it doesn't hold up, IMO (still not a BAD movie).