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Sorcerer - William Friedkin 1977 vs Wages of Fear - European theatrical release. Discussion — Page 2

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Ronster said:

Thanks for the update… How do the extended scenes feel with the original sound mix for them?

That is not with the german audio dub…

I think any effectivess the extra scenes might have is more often than not spoiled by the extra dubbing. The scene where Nilo has to cross over the big puddle to assess its depth, in particular, has a bunch of unconvincingly looped taunts from Jackie that stand out like a sore thumb from the other dialogue in the scene.

But really good news glad you got this atleast…

Sorcerer for dummies 😃

I guess it is a bit of a silly edit I assumed as much but really for the scene extensions with english / original sound mix rather than flashbacks inserted haphazzardly also…

Well please share your findings.

Would appreciate a cap of the bridge scene also but with original colors please…

Ah interesting about fonts for english version! Is it possible to restore them?

I think my current plans for this are to try and restore the cut using a mix of the German TV rip and the Blu-Ray (slightly but not heavily desaturating and darkening the latter to more closely match the former) for the video, with a patchwork of all three sources for the audio. Before then, I’ll see if I can make a compilation of highlights and upload it to my YouTube channel. I’m just in the midst of buying a new (well, refurbished) Mac so might be in a position to start working on this later this in the week. Fingers crossed!

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 (Edited)

djsmokingjam said:

Ronster said:

Thanks for the update… How do the extended scenes feel with the original sound mix for them?

That is not with the german audio dub…

I think any effectivess the extra scenes might have is more often than not spoiled by the extra dubbing. The scene where Nilo has to cross over the big puddle to assess its depth, in particular, has a bunch of unconvincingly looped taunts from Jackie that stand out like a sore thumb from the other dialogue in the scene.

So in terms of the German dub and the Finnish VHS with somewhat original sound mix sans poor audio edits… Is the original Spanish Language intact on extra scenes and so on… or has this been dubbed also?

Does the German Dub Feature the original Language i.e. Spanish or French or is this dubbed in to German also?

Sounds like it will be a very interesting edit…

Sorry just to elaborate the scenes in the Helicopter and the Hut that has had the nitro glycerine stolen by the terrorists. Is the original language in tact for these?

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As promised, here’s some framegrabs from the tape:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/aqwr27yp1742vzb/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h29m21s132.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/exfdytop1q54y2d/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h12m31s590.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/x3crabdk9a8099h/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h12m54s828.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/8no53scz88ugy98/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-18h55m54s576.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/99fnk46ksqxq40q/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h22m36s459.png

I’ll be checking it against the comparison I did of the German TV rip with the DVD in the next week or two hopefully.

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Thanks for posting these… Interesting stuff.

I think it is also interesting Jackie and Victor are Dominguez and Serrano too.

Is that line missing subtitles in the BluRay? Or is it just to show colors and fonts? Sorry can not remember…

Cool so i was not far off with my color regrade guess so i pushed it sort of the right way. I wonder if that frame grab of the bridge will go like the poster images with more yellow at the top end…

Sorry to harp on about the spanish language track but i can’t even remember if the helicopter ride was in english or not originally? And if this is dubbed into English / German?

And the looted shack also…

the truck scene will go into the poster colors although there is a lot of noise in the VHS it would seem… Blue and magenta both needed to shift to yellow and a lot of red added but still could not get the right amount of red in yet but with a better quality source such as the German TV version I think I could pull it out…

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I saw the new Sorcerer DCP (which is the same as the Blu-Ray master, but at full 4K) at the BFI last night. Personally, when it comes to the bridge scene, I’d say the HD/4K master is closer to the grading on the tape than your regraded still, just with certain primary colours (especially the greens of the trees) pushed up and saturated, which is the sort of thing I’d expect Friedkin (ever the revisionist) to do. None of us know what the correct colour timing is, and given both the cinematographers are dead and Friedkin is seemingly incapable of telling the truth, I doubt we’ll ever know.

To answer your question, the helicopter scenes are in English, but the dialogue has clearly been revised and redubbed so I doubt it’s the “original” dialogue intended when the film was shot, or at least as Friedkin would have them delivered or mixed. I haven’t checked them against the script though.

I doubt you’ll get much out of the German TV rip, given it’s already very dark, quite compressed (825MB file size if I remember correctly) and is in heavily letterboxed 4:3, so lower resolution than any other source available.

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I think what can be inferred is that the Blu ray won’t go poster colors the tape will so i would trust the tape more than the bluray…

It is probably tinted and deliberately so like the tape. But not as drastically blue on blue like the bluray.

The poster is probably closer to real colors the day it was shot. Thus the tape is simply tinted the bluray is irrecoverable as it has tinted a tint.

Check the pic where i said “I had a go” looks like the VHS sort of so that was taking it to neutral.

Thanks for the info on the languages…

Thinking about it the best possible approach would be to use the old 4:3 R1 America - Universal Pictures (1.33:1) DVD and mix it with the VHS and try to make a dvd version… Will blend much better.

another possible color grade here too…

here is the dvd list

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=12752

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How’s things come along with this?

Any Interesting stuff you found?

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Ronster said:

How’s things come along with this?

Any Interesting stuff you found?

I haven’t been able to do any additional work on this for the last couple of months due to being busy with other things. The only new pertinent info I’ve found since is a post from a Blu-Ray.com user that says the original theatrical version of the Wages Of Fear cut didn’t dub the foreign-language scenes, but rather presented them in their original languages with subtitles. The dub was done for TV masters which were then used for the VHS releases discussed. However, there’s no way to verify that now without access to an original theatrical print.

In terms of Sorcerer news, a new coffee table book full of photos and production memos related to the film is being released in France this April by La Rabbia, who released the French DVD set. Not sure how I’ll be able to afford a copy at the moment, but I want one all the same! http://www.larabbia.com/books/sorcerer-sur-le-toit-du-monde/

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Having seen the theatrical release in the theaters I must say that this film got a bad rap. It did not do well in the US and I venture to say it was because of the Title.

Friedkin had just come off of the success of the Exorcist which was a groundbreaking scary film. It scared the crap out of the audience at the time. So when the people heard about his new film, Sorcerer, everyone was expecting more of the scary stuff. Thinking that this was going to be like the Exorcist early theater goers were seriously bummed and word of mouth soon spread and this movie sank like the titanic.

Being the Film buff that I was, I had read up on everything I could find about this movie before it’s release and I knew what it was going in. The trailer with Tangerine dream’s soundtrack hooked me and I couldn’t wait to see it. I have to say it didn’t quite live up to my expectations but by no means was this a bad Film. Friedkin is a very Talented director and the visual imagery is unforgettable. Well worth viewing

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Ronster said:

Thanks for posting these… Interesting stuff.

I think it is also interesting Jackie and Victor are Dominguez and Serrano too.

Is that line missing subtitles in the BluRay? Or is it just to show colors and fonts? Sorry can not remember…

Cool so i was not far off with my color regrade guess so i pushed it sort of the right way. I wonder if that frame grab of the bridge will go like the poster images with more yellow at the top end…

Sorry to harp on about the spanish language track but i can’t even remember if the helicopter ride was in english or not originally? And if this is dubbed into English / German?

And the looted shack also…

the truck scene will go into the poster colors although there is a lot of noise in the VHS it would seem… Blue and magenta both needed to shift to yellow and a lot of red added but still could not get the right amount of red in yet but with a better quality source such as the German TV version I think I could pull it out…

Actually the top image is closer to the theatrical print. The scene’s colors were muted and that was the intent as it was supposed to be a dark stormy day. It was to convey a Mood like they were on a doomed quest. That’s how it was in the Theater.

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 (Edited)

Yeah but the poster or untinted color just looks much better IMO.

Did it get done this project?

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djsmokingjam said:

Retro35 said:

https://www.imgup.cz/images/2019/09/12/1a77bee30464c25fbb.jpg
https://www.imgup.cz/images/2019/09/12/1c332c9623de0f903b.jpg
https://www.imgup.cz/images/2019/09/12/1d13bbf557cf4d1995.jpg

VERY interesting! Please don’t leave us hanging, where have those grabs come from?

Hello, I just signed up for this forum (by the way, I’m the sole creative force behind 95% of Sorcerer’s wiki page). It caught my attention that you are in the possession of the Finnish broadcast copy of the European cut… I’ve had the German one for years, and I would like to see the Finnish copy, b/c it is not overdubbed. Would you mind sending it via PM?

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Does anybody have a version of Wages of Fear in English, that I could have a copy of?

Been looking for this for three decades, having once had my own recording from British Television in the 80’s until it was “lost”, any help would be greatly appreciated.

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It’s a shame Djsmokingjam never released this to my knowledge even though he had the audio and video to re-create this rarity or scarce almost erased from history version of the film or he could have also made an extended version workprint or fan edit.

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Does anybody have the ac3 from the full screen dvd?

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Is there anyone who has the footage from Wages, that doesn’t appear in Sorcerer? I can make a full version, I have the technology, what I need is the footage.