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Sometimes do you feel like you should give up on the cause? — Page 5

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
lucas is the one who has changed not the fans, why can't he open he damn eyes and see that.

I mean in an interview he even forgot the line ben kenobi says in a new hope " if you strike me down I shall become more powerfull than you can possibly imagine".

And in sith they forgot that obi wan was supposed to get the sword for luke, for they had to do reshoots.

Asolute Idiocy, completely unforgiveable and unexcusable.


This is just absolutely depressing, I mean, more and more I see that GL is a third-grade director and pseudo-writer who had an unbelivable strike of luck making a good film, thanks also for the assistance of those involved in ther movie and the bad conditions he was in, and that was fortunate enough to have the talents of such people as Irvin Kershner and Lawrence Kasdan behind the sequels. And when he came up to do the prequels, they ended up as good as the movies he is capable at, even though he had the assistance of good people. I mean, even more annoying Jar Jar, backstreet boys as Jedi, young Han Solo on Kashyyk, could you imagine how bad would those films be if he was allowed to do 100% of what he wanted to? And he dosen't know his own work for Christ sake, he can't keep continuity of it because he is not like a real sci-fi fan, he is not like Tolkien who could bring a huge universe to life, he's is JUST for the money. Makes me mad AND sad.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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You forgot that deleted scene he was going to use to introduce Greedo in Episode I with that cheasy line of "You better watch yourself Greedo, or you're going to come to a bad end." That would have been horrible.
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I don't think ricar forgot that scene, but there's a wonderful example. Star Wars was a wonderful fluke for GL, and he did the right thing -- he let someoen better than himself take the reins for sequels. But somewhere down the line, it all got too big for him. He figured we'd eat it up no matter what, and that, hey, if he did it all, he doesn't have to pay someoen else to do it. Well, he was right. People still eat it up, but he disenfranchised so many fans in the process. Someday Star Wars will finally die (or GL will), and I think we'll all be better for it.
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still i dont get how someone makes something everyone here considers so perfect (star wars) to something as dreadful as the special editions and the prequels, what went wrong with lucas then? i cant believe it was just a fluke
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I sometimes think it was. I mean, Star Wars isn't perfect, but it's amazing despite (or perhaps because of) its flaws. GL took a gamble, and it paid off, and was a blockbuster.
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Lucas was a skilled director, and a guy with some really interesting things to say...

THX-1138 was a great film, full of rich themes and interesting ideas. It was highly stylized, but at the same time the film really had something to say.

American Graffiti was the same thing. I defy anyone to watch the scene where Dreyfus is debating with Ron Howard and Toad about leaving for college and not feel the teen anguish, the uncertainity of the future we have all faced.

You see, Lucas used to make movies that made you think and feel. Then he made his little Trilogy of films. Star Wars was a sort of extension of Graffiti, a thematic relative - the youth yearning escape. It's a theme that worked in Wizard of Oz and countless films since.

But somewhere along the line, I think Lucas got too comfortable. There was no pressure on him, no suffering, and great art comes out of suffering. He was given free reign and I think it shows. The preqels made it obvious that he was a victim of his own machine and way too at ease. 'Phantom Menace' was just lazy filmmaking and on the nose.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Star Wars wasn't a fluke. Lucas had talent to be sure, and I think if he went the opposite route - personal films instead of blockbusters - we could be talking about him in a totally different manner...
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I have not seen THX-1138 yet, and I refuse to watch the "special edition", so I cannot comment on that.

American Graffitti to me was more due to great writting and acting, and because that was a straightfoward script, taken out of life. There was no real direction needed, and you can tell by Ron Howard and Richard Dreyfuss and the other actors how at ease they were with those parts because it was like playing themselves.

With Star Wars, he was deriving on a mere concept he had, on vague ideas, of an adventure serial. While he wrote a good script, he was lucky to have a few things at his favor:

1- He got some great concept art and could do wonders with that. He didn't come up with Vader at ALL, it was his concept artist (whose name I forgot at the moment) who came up with that figure, and he merely threw in a persona to that image. He didn't have anything planned.

2- He was starting ILM at the best moment possible, with the best people possible, and I'm sure he wasn't fully aware of that.

3- He was lucky to have a consistent cast of unknowns, which did a great job. He was very lucky with Anthony Daniels characterization, would you enjoy SW as much if he had been an "used car salesman"?

4- He was VERY lucky to get Alec Guiness. If made 5 years before, or 5 years later, Alec Guiness would have refused the part, and Obi-Wan wouldn't have that much impact.

5- The problems that came with the production made the film better. Imagine if we had a stop-motion Jabba talking with Han Solo, as he wanted to do... It's like, when the shark for Jaws broke down, Spielberg had to shoot it more mysteriously, same thing here. He had to suffer to make it the best way he could, and it did.

6- He had GREAT editors who cut up the film in a great way. Those who have seen the cantina scene from the classic b&w workprint know what I'm talking about...

7- He was LUCKY to get JOHN WILLIAMS, who gave Star Wars a huge leap foward. Try wathcing it without the musical soundtrack...

8- He had Lawrence Kasdan and Irvin Kershner for ESB. Kershner KNEW how to make the second film of a trilogy, he KNEW how to conduct the movie, and how to make it work.

9- He had Frank Oz doing Yoda, which made the character belivable.

I mean, I could go on and on... Now, the prequels are WATCHABLE, they are actually good movies, they are quite well paced, well made, not as bad acted as some people say, they are enjoyable pieces of film, GL is a competent filmmaker, but that's it. He is a mediocre/good film maker, he can do some good things, he has great ideas, he is an excelent producer, he knows how to make money out of films better than anyone in the film industry, but that's it.

He is NOT a sci-fi genius like Asimov or HG Wells or Arthur C Clark whoever. He has no idea how to conduct such a thing, and it shows. I mean, a good example is the "parseks" controversy, on how a parsek is an unity of distance not time, well, GL didn't know! As mucha s he lie, saying that he threw that in because he wanted to show how Han Solo didn't know what he was saying, oh, well, how many film viewers know what a parsek is? He didn't know, and the sad part is that he lies to cover it.

He has absolutely no control of a consistence between characters and how to make a huge saga. He is NOT Tolkien. He dosen't try to keep consistence of how long a Death Star takes to be built so it synchs up with the timeline of the official cannon, because he dosen't care, he dosen't know how to keep track of those things...

I just wish Irvin Kershner had directed the prequels...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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it was his concept artist (whose name I forgot at the moment)



I believe you're thinking of Ralph McQuarrie, if I'm not mistaken.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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lucas always said though that the prequels would be alot less fun than the ot from way back. so i dont know what to think. i do know he couldve worked a little harder at consistency between the trilogies, that wouldve done wonders. i mean even if the prequels completely sucked, which they mostly do, he couldve at least had that to fall back on
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I'm afraid we're stuck in a sequel/prequel era where all original ideas have gone by the wayside and movie companies milk franchises for all they're worth. The true art of storytelling, and rather filmaking as an "art" altogether, is no longer relevant. Unfortunately, we take what we can get. All the studios want to see is the money. The numbers speak louder than a whole hill of criticism. The only way to plead with our film companies of making something that can actually be called "good" is to stop seeing what can only be referred to as "bad."

And this thread reminds me ... I need to get in contact with Rikter to get Cowclops LD transfers. I'm still on 56k, can't download them, $17.00 isn't bad, though.
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yeah but we were all waiting for the prequels, its not like they were made to follow some trend in hollywood
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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
it was his concept artist (whose name I forgot at the moment)

I believe you're thinking of Ralph McQuarrie, if I'm not mistaken.


Yes, exactly. Thank you.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering