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So whats better? Phantom or Clones?

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I ask this because I watched TPM last night for the first time in ages. Got my new big TV, rolled a joint and sat down to watch.
And I really enjoyed it. I watch most of AOTC earlier that day, but I've gotta say, I think I prefer Phantom to Clones.
So much love and attention was put into that film, So much time spent trying to get it all right.
See, now I feel sorry for Lucas. I bet he genually thought he was making a Star Wars film that everyone would like.
He must feel like shit after hearing all the negative stuff written about that film.
It's actually really good.
AOTC seems so much more rushed. Too many visual errors, for one Obi -Wans beard...man!..Shot after shot, it's real, it's fake, it's real, it's fake.
A lot of detail is in TPM. Time!
For those of you whoe really can't stand that film, I suggest you give it another go.
It's quite good actually.

Or maybe it was coz I was stoned......who knows..

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Originally posted by: HotRod
Or maybe it was coz I was stoned......who knows..


I think you nailed it right there.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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lol
i already know which one you were going to prefer when you said "Got my new big TV, rolled a joint and sat down to watch."
haha

but its all good...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Ha!

But, I do think it's a better film. I know it's got Jar Jar an shit, but it's not that, I actually like him, always have. He wasn't the thing that bothered me first time I saw the film. I think that was just beacause it wasn't a proper "Star Wars film". I know I was gutted, real gutted.
But got over that when it was first released on VHS, actually, lol, I was stoned and chilled just watching it then, and thats when I first liked that film too....Shit, there's a pattern forming here. I'm not a stoner or anything like that. Just like a joint now and then. Helps me chill
But compared to AOTC it looks more like a proper SW film. It has mostly real sets.. I dunno, it just feals nicer.. I dunno?

See, thats why I have to by the DVDs. I've only got VHS copies, and that just wont do. The changes don't bother me that much, I can live with them. It's the superior sound and picture, thats what I'm looking forward to the most. Can't wait.

I'm all excited! Then Episode 3 in 9 months. Man thats a long time away. I'll have a baby by then, and he/she will grow to love Star Wars. Brainwash the little fucker!!....In a nice way of corse!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Originally posted by: HotRod
I'll have a baby by then


Hey! Congrats, m'man! How far along?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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as far as story structure is concerned, PM has a stong narrative structure and technically (in that one way) should be superior to AOTC. sadly, though, it is marred by jar jar, lloyd's acting, maudlin scenes, midichlorines, and the stupid two-headed anouncer. also, there is no hero in that film. it should have been obi wan, but "main hero character" is shared three ways among obi, ani, and qui gon, really leaving the audience displaced as to who it should be identifying with. and another thing, letting the audience know WHY the taxation of trade routes is in dispute (and over what) would have gone a long way toward bringing some meaning to the whole damn hexology. i mean, who gives a damn about naboo? why would palpidious/trade fed care? even a lame explanation would have been nice. something...anything...

AOTC, while not structurally as strong, i simply found it more enjoyable. it has an obvious main character (anakin). also, there were more "bad-ass" action scenes, and it felt more like a rollicking space opera/adventure and less like a sterile introduction. the dual-story line, while not as tight as ESB, still worked; and the pacing was pretty good throughout. the love scene felt contrived, as did the bondage outfit scene (i wish i could just wish away the bad writing). also, the camera style totally changed in the clone war scene. i understand it was to serve a purpose, but it felt too disjunctive relative to the rest of the film. overall, i enjoyed it much more than PM.

huzzah for archival THEATRICAL OT!!!
it is our duty to preserve star wars history...

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Or maybe it was coz I was stoned......who knows..




To bad we can't chill and watch the MagnoliaFan Films with each other!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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They both have pros and cons.

TMP has better dialogue and acting, and its story is told better

But AoTC has a better story and some killer action.

Lets hope Lucas brings it togeter and makes Episode three the best.

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if you're ever in san diego, rikter, give me a jingle. bong hits and star wars are go together like chocolate and peanut butter. and it just doesn't get much better than the goodies from california. for you kids though, say no to drugs!!!

huzzah for archival THEATRICAL OT!!!
it is our duty to preserve star wars history...

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Well, technically, they are illiegal for adults to. How hard could it be to just get a hershey bar instead of a joint? Hershys cost less anyway, right?

4

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I really can't pick a favorite, I like them both very much. I mean, PM you have a great introduction, an nice expanded explanation of the Force, how do you connect to it? How did the old Jedi get apprentices? They invented the best word Padawan, everyone SW fans says it and you know it. So many awesome characters introduced and the story arcs of Obi and Anakin begin. With Clones you really get into the Clone Wars, why Yoda said of Anakin, "Powerful Jedi was he", great stuff with Obi-Wan, a nice explanation with Shmi, the Lars, and Anakin's first true fall to the darkside. Round that out with Qui-Gon's voice, Jango Fett and Boba Fett's introduction (awesome), Count Dooku and the curved blade (equally awesome to Maul's double blade), I honestly can't make up my mind. I'll just say they're both great, completely worthy of the Star Wars name and I never watch the Classic Trilogy (OT or SE so far) with watching TPM and AOTC first.


And that's my two cents on the issue.
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Attack of the Clones by far. I think The Phantom Menace is good and a bit overly critized. At least it was better then Return of the Jedi but it couldn't possibly compare with A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Attack of the Clones was fantastic. It surpassed all my expectations. It brings story and action together better then anything else. I don't know how anyone could even consider The Phantom Menace better.
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Jimbo.... did you just say a prequel movie wasn't as good as two movies from the OT?! I am in awe, man. LOL
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Well, technically, they are illiegal for adults to. How hard could it be to just get a hershey bar instead of a joint? Hershys cost less anyway, right?
Don't worry about those idiots. I'm sure they think it's "cool".
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I prefer AOTC to TPM, I think it has a much deeper storyline and personally I was much more interested in it than when I saw TPM. A bit darker too, much like ESB compared to ANH.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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I liked TPM a lot more than AOTC.

I can't pinpoint exactly why, but I just really like TPM a lot better than AOTC.

ESB>ANH>ROTJ>TPM>AOTC

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Originally posted by: jimbo
Attack of the Clones by far. I think The Phantom Menace is good and a bit overly critized. At least it was better then Return of the Jedi but it couldn't possibly compare with A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Attack of the Clones was fantastic. It surpassed all my expectations. It brings story and action together better then anything else. I don't know how anyone could even consider The Phantom Menace better.


Talk to good old Roger Ebert, he thinks TPM is thumbs up (I agree), but AOTC is thumbs down (WTF?).

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I have better memories of seeing TPM, but I think I liked AOTC better. They're about equel to me. Like how I'm not sure if o prefer ANH or ESB.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I'm not much of a fan of the prequels in general, but I'd have to say I definitely prefer TPM. To me, it was fairly well done on a fundemental level. Unfortunately it has many blemishes on the surface (Jar Jar, Jake Loydd, Nemoidian accents, ect) that sort of ruin it. But if you were to remove stuff, ala phantom edits and whatnot, then it really is a good, likeable movie. The story was sound, the tone was right, the acting was acceptable, and there were even a few real sets! It reminded me of a SW movie.

AOTC, on the other hand, is a disaster in my eyes. Everything about it just seemed thrown together. The dialogue was terrible, and actors seemed to not even be trying, the plot was gratuitous if not pointless. Then there's the decision to cgi EVERYTHING. Why on earth does the floor need to be cgi?!?! I don't know, it just seemed like George Lucas sat down at his kitchen table and hammered out the whole story/script in one night, throwing in any random thought that popped into his mind. "Hey, that's a good idea. I'll turn Yoda into a cgi ninja-monkey!! Yeah, that's the ticket!" I guess I just find AOTC fundamentally flawed in too many ways to find it even watchable. Sorry, I just like bitching.
40,000 million notches away
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Well, seems like a good solid question I can reply to.....hahahaha

I have to say that between TPM and AOTC I think Menace is the closest to a "Star Wars" movie. Aside from the "new" look(colours, textures,...etc) of everything, it has the feel and mood of the trilogy. Acting sometimes seemed to lack the emotion of the originals but it seems to stay in the time period it is set. When the mood is present, I could feel it. I agree that the story is solid aside from not having a defined hero. My guess is that "jedi's" are the hero here....defining them and their place in the SW universe.

As for AOTC, it seems to lack the fire and passion in the acting as well but does deliver special effects galore via CGI. I am not a fan of total CGI and this movie reeked of it. Yoda kicking some "dooku arse" was quite nice to see though. It seems more rushed than TPM and everything that is supposed to be (prequel) old seems newer than the OT.....and to me that didn't make for a great invitation for excitement. Readout panels in the ships are just one example. The one particular killer for me was "The Love Story". Han and Leia didn't need this to make it work and they didn't stifle the rest of the story with it. This one did. Even the "Theme Song" for it was just wasted on this moment when they could have been busy fixing the mood and making it more natural.

What both these movies needed was to have looked more like the originals so that the flow and the mood stayed intact. The CGI seemed more like a "mass marketing tool" than it did a support device for an obviously complex story. The OT managed without it(aside from the SE which I still enjoy regardless), why did the prequels need it? They didn't!!

Thanks for lettin me air my opinion.

The OT RULES!!!!
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Feels funny to comment, since it's all been said before and I'm sure you're familiar with any reaction I had. I preferred AOTC. I also think that, in the context of AOTC, TPM made more sense and became a little more worthwhile. In general, though, as you have said, it's just not star wars. Some points that haven't been made in this thread:

1) giving alien races cultural accents rather than language. Having Threepio translate Artoo, and Han repeat back to Chewie everything he said was genius. It worked so well. Because there's so few subtitles, you don't notice as much, but much of the original trilogy was communicated without English. Both new movies fail here, it's either cultural accents (mexican for the junk shop dealer, vaudeville for the announcer, Japanese for the trade federation) or subtitles, and the universe isn't as good.

2) contrived settings. Why the crap is Amidala holding an audience in full dress on her transport ship, to "commend" a droid? Doesn't make sense. And so forth. Doesn't feel natural.

3) obviously the script was written in "higher language." Anakin and Padme don't use contractions very much, for example. However, they still behave and act like normal people you'd see in a TV mini-series. This disconnect makes the whole thing feel unnatural and forced. If you don't have Sir Alec Guinness, you can't expect a shakespearean performance so don't write shakespearean.

4) the movies rush along to endpoints. Lucas is trying to get from Old Republic to the start of A New Hope. He has certain conditions to be met, and the movie seems to be driven by navigating from condition to condition (war, empire, anakin to vader, marraige so that luke and leia can be born...) rather than unfolding naturally. It's a tough situation to be in, and it seems to be too much for Lucas. Again, they feel unnatural.

That being said, as I get used to them, the movies get better. I liked AOTC just because it was exciting. Going back to TPM, I realized there were just a few sticking points ("ye gods" - jarjar (hello? gods? in this universe? it hurt me., midichlorians, "there was no father", "are you an angel?", the attack planning scene with stilted dialogue) and the rest of the movie plugs along pretty well. Like my four points above, AOTC suffers from most of the same problems. A few less major sticking points, but still forced. In the end, it was a fun romp with an exciting battle and tie-together, with a good lead in to the next movie, so I left happy.

My first realization was that because of the Star Wars name, I had expectations which led me to dislike the movies. Later I also realized that without the Star Wars name, I would have watched them once, enjoyed them, and never thought of them again.

Now the clone wars cartoon series; that was good star wars. Any input...is it just because it's 5 minute serials and cartoons that it felt so much better, or did it just better capture what star wars is supposed to be?
If you're going to take forever, then I'm having a hotdog!
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Clone Wars was great I think because with so little time, it has to capture the most important moments. Mind you I think they had an awesome storyline with the PT to use, it still made it difficult. Especially when you hear the audio commentaries, they got just what they needed and that was it. Also with it being a new format, I think people had much lower expectations, I know I did, and yet it works. It has a real story to tell like the 5 movies without being cheesy, like Droids and Ewoks, the biggest Give Lucasfilm More Money Fest I have ever seen.
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man.... i guess if i had to pick one...

The Empire.. oops...
lol

i mean prolly Attack of the Clones...
ewwwww all of sudden i feel so dirty...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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You're so silly Luke, its ok to compare the PT, it's ok.


You will not cringe when talking about the prequals.
You will not cringe when talking about the prequals.