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So, this is how the DVDs are going to look... — Page 12

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I still don't understand how the "wobble" (or "weave") can be any worse than on the LDs, since they're made from the same masters (aside from the crawl).

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My response in another thread, but since I brought it up here too I will share my results:

--Okay, I found a non-anamorphic, letterbox DVD (and it was a 2001 Fox release too, imagine that *yawn*). The movie was shot in 2.35:1 so it was a great comparison. In my component mode, it keeps it letterboxed and it does NOT scale it any bigger to fill more of the screen. But since I have a DVD/VCR combo I could actually switch to the AV mode and still play/watch the DVD, and in that mode I can select the "Zoom" options to fill more of the screen. Quite honestly, I didn't really notice much difference in picture quality and I was satisfied with viewing the movie in that mode.

So yeah, I am still on the fence about getting the 09/12 DVDs but feeling *slightly* better about it all. I still don't know what is going through Lucas'/LFL's head, though. Maybe they figure with the technology out there today they can take the easy route, as most (all?) widescreen TVs, DVD players, etc., have a zoom feature. No excuse, though, no excuse...--
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What you guys are calling "wobble" in the opening crawl, I thought was called dot crawl....

Now I was only 9 years old when I saw Star Wars for the first time but I don't seem to remember the opening
crawl look like that. To me that looks horrible. I hope and pray that the X0 version doesn't have it in its crawl...

Do you guys really think GL wanted the crawl to look like that orginally? I can't believe he did....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Dot crawl is a whole 'nother beast.

"I hope and pray that the X0 version doesn't have it in its crawl..."

Sorry...

BTW, excellent post from TF.n:

Um, are people so naive to think that this is done out of anything other than profit-reasons? The reasons for this release were very clearly explained to us by various representatives of Lucasfilm. To sum up the points of the history of this release, per the marketing department of Lucasfilm:

-the initial idea was to release the 2004 OT-SE yet again, but this time the draw would be that you could buy them individually
-probably because they realised that nobody in their right mind would buy this--and encouraged by the failure of the 2005 re-release--Jim Ward thought it best to present to Lucas the concept of finally releasing the OOT, as it is something that Ward had been wanting to release on DVD for some time; the profits lost to LD bootlegs was also a strong selling point in their pitch
-inevitably, a new transfer was not done and Ward was forced to salvage the 1993 laserdisk tapes, undoubtedly implying that Lucas agreed that they should take back the profit lost to bootleggers but refused to spend a dime on the new product; the laserdisk master would inevitably nullify the bootleg market since it is equivalent to an "Official bootleg" and so this was deemed acceptable for release
-because the quality of the OOT was so poor, the sales tactic was inevitably shifted to the OOT as "bonus" feature; Steve Sansweet then reported something to the effect that this release was not for the die hard fans but for those who don't care about which version they own

so to sum it up: this release started as yet another way to sell the same product, and the OOT was initially attached to give extra marketing leverage and eliminate lost profit due to bootlegs. It is also not for die hards but for those who "dont care about which version they get" (who assumingly don't really care for the OOT and already have the OT-SE from 2004 and 2005--which actually makes this entire release quite illogical). So no, it was never about "caring" about "fans" about customer satisfaction, or anything like that--it was about money. Thats all it is. Lucas doesn't actually care about OOT fans. If anything, you should honestly thank Jim Ward for this because it was he who spearheaded this release and "had been begging Lucas for years" to release it--but Lucas inevitably trumped him and forced him to release a 1993 laserdisk transfer.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
it was never about "caring" about "fans" about customer satisfaction, or anything like that--it was about money.


Big surprise.
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Ok- I just popped the ROTJ LD into the player (actually, the DVD-R I made of it), and I stood very close to the TV set (to approximate the distance I sit from my computer screen).

I watched the same scene from Jedi (the 3-ghosts) and I definitely see film "weave" in the scene. I never really noticed this before, but I usually don't sit a-foot-and-a-half from my TV either.

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Dot crawl is a whole 'nother beast.

"I hope and pray that the X0 version doesn't have it in its crawl..."

Sorry...

BTW, excellent post from TF.n:

Um, are people so naive to think that this is done out of anything other than profit-reasons? The reasons for this release were very clearly explained to us by various representatives of Lucasfilm. To sum up the points of the history of this release, per the marketing department of Lucasfilm:

-the initial idea was to release the 2004 OT-SE yet again, but this time the draw would be that you could buy them individually
-probably because they realised that nobody in their right mind would buy this--and encouraged by the failure of the 2005 re-release--Jim Ward thought it best to present to Lucas the concept of finally releasing the OOT, as it is something that Ward had been wanting to release on DVD for some time; the profits lost to LD bootlegs was also a strong selling point in their pitch
-inevitably, a new transfer was not done and Ward was forced to salvage the 1993 laserdisk tapes, undoubtedly implying that Lucas agreed that they should take back the profit lost to bootleggers but refused to spend a dime on the new product; the laserdisk master would inevitably nullify the bootleg market since it is equivalent to an "Official bootleg" and so this was deemed acceptable for release
-because the quality of the OOT was so poor, the sales tactic was inevitably shifted to the OOT as "bonus" feature; Steve Sansweet then reported something to the effect that this release was not for the die hard fans but for those who don't care about which version they own

so to sum it up: this release started as yet another way to sell the same product, and the OOT was initially attached to give extra marketing leverage and eliminate lost profit due to bootlegs. It is also not for die hards but for those who "dont care about which version they get" (who assumingly don't really care for the OOT and already have the OT-SE from 2004 and 2005--which actually makes this entire release quite illogical). So no, it was never about "caring" about "fans" about customer satisfaction, or anything like that--it was about money. Thats all it is. Lucas doesn't actually care about OOT fans. If anything, you should honestly thank Jim Ward for this because it was he who spearheaded this release and "had been begging Lucas for years" to release it--but Lucas inevitably trumped him and forced him to release a 1993 laserdisk transfer.

That is an excellent post! Just goes to show that some people in Lucas' camp are getting sick of his antics. Maybe, just maybe, they will be able to put the pressure on him even more and a proper restoration will happen....some day....


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That quote pretty much sums up Lucas' attitude to this whole thing for me.
Nothing that we probably didn't always suspect anyway, but just a little reminder of what we are buying into here.

I must admit, I do feel a little held to ransom with this release, and although I know I DON'T have to buy this, it appears to be better than anything I currently own. :/

I really do hope that this release will help to generate many more supporters of the original non-bastardized movies, or at the very least raise it's profile and demonstrate to Lucas how important this issue is to the fans.

I just want to watch the ORIGINAL movies made using the best film elements and techniques available to produce the best quality transfer possible!
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Pretty much covers what I've said about the films in my review so far. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks along those cynical lines.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Originally posted by: ESHBG
My response in another thread, but since I brought it up here too I will share my results:

--Okay, I found a non-anamorphic, letterbox DVD (and it was a 2001 Fox release too, imagine that *yawn*). The movie was shot in 2.35:1 so it was a great comparison. In my component mode, it keeps it letterboxed and it does NOT scale it any bigger to fill more of the screen. But since I have a DVD/VCR combo I could actually switch to the AV mode and still play/watch the DVD, and in that mode I can select the "Zoom" options to fill more of the screen. Quite honestly, I didn't really notice much difference in picture quality and I was satisfied with viewing the movie in that mode.

So yeah, I am still on the fence about getting the 09/12 DVDs but feeling *slightly* better about it all. I still don't know what is going through Lucas'/LFL's head, though. Maybe they figure with the technology out there today they can take the easy route, as most (all?) widescreen TVs, DVD players, etc., have a zoom feature. No excuse, though, no excuse...--


You may want to check out an older player, the Panasonic RP91. The RP91 can take letterbox material and "scale" it to 16x9 format. This allows you to keep your display in it's widescreen, or Full, mode. The Full mode is used with anamphoric material. The panny of course doesn't make the letterbox true anamphoric, but it does a good job and the big thing is keeping the display in Full mode where you don't get geometry distortion. They can probably get got pretty cheap now days. It is component only at 480p, no upscalling or anything.

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Yes, it agrees what I'd been thinking too. Purely a money-making scheme to clear out their stock of '04 SSEs before releasing the new SSSEs next year. I feel no compulsion to buy this release. I resent its motivations and do not want yet another letterbox, stereo version of the OOT. I have more than enough of those on VHS.

Luca$hFilm know that the OOT will sell on DVD and they will keep releasing it as long as it will sell, just as they have with the SSEs.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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That is an excellent post! Just goes to show that some people in Lucas' camp are getting sick of his antics. Maybe, just maybe, they will be able to put the pressure on him even more and a proper restoration will happen....some day....


lets hope plenty of college grad OOT fans join lucasfilm so they'll still be there when Lucas isn't.

and you know what, since this is a limited release and the films will be off the market by 2007, I say the defense "this DVD restores a version of the film that is no longer commercially available..." (as quoted by Garrett Gilcrest at the end of RotJ classic edition) will still be quite valid. I say continue with the fan edits.

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Originally posted by: gltaylor74
Originally posted by: ESHBG
My response in another thread, but since I brought it up here too I will share my results:

--Okay, I found a non-anamorphic, letterbox DVD (and it was a 2001 Fox release too, imagine that *yawn*). The movie was shot in 2.35:1 so it was a great comparison. In my component mode, it keeps it letterboxed and it does NOT scale it any bigger to fill more of the screen. But since I have a DVD/VCR combo I could actually switch to the AV mode and still play/watch the DVD, and in that mode I can select the "Zoom" options to fill more of the screen. Quite honestly, I didn't really notice much difference in picture quality and I was satisfied with viewing the movie in that mode.

So yeah, I am still on the fence about getting the 09/12 DVDs but feeling *slightly* better about it all. I still don't know what is going through Lucas'/LFL's head, though. Maybe they figure with the technology out there today they can take the easy route, as most (all?) widescreen TVs, DVD players, etc., have a zoom feature. No excuse, though, no excuse...--


You may want to check out an older player, the Panasonic RP91. The RP91 can take letterbox material and "scale" it to 16x9 format. This allows you to keep your display in it's widescreen, or Full, mode. The Full mode is used with anamphoric material. The panny of course doesn't make the letterbox true anamphoric, but it does a good job and the big thing is keeping the display in Full mode where you don't get geometry distortion. They can probably get got pretty cheap now days. It is component only at 480p, no upscalling or anything.

Thanks for the info!

Re: the SEs, I still can't help but think maybe we all are missing the big picture and the opposite of what we think is true. My point:

1. '04 SEs are released on DVD in a box set including a 4th bonus disc. MANY fans are upset about the obvious video/audio screw ups and even more changes to the films. I know more people that DIDN'T buy them vs. did (myself included) or have since sold them.

3. Early '05, the DVDs can be purchased seperately. If the boxed sets sold as well as Lucas wanted, this wouldn't have been necessary until much, much later.

3. They are repackaged and resold in late '05, just in time for the Christmas season; but this barely made a blip on the radar and didn't sell very well at all.

4. 09/12/06 SEs are released AGAIN, this time A) they can be purchased seperately (again) with no boxed set and B) they inlcude the OUT. Inlcuding the OUT is guaranteed to bump sales up, moving the SE stock.

So that is 3 years in a row now they had to use different methods to try to sell the SEs! Of course the argument is there, "Well they are just milking the cash cow for all it's worth," and this may very well be true. But I say the proof is in the pudding so to speak, and a company that sells a solid product will not have to result to crappy repackaging, sub-par "bonus discs", etc., to push its stock. Let's take LOTR for example. They are re-releasing the DVDs this year BUT they come with really nice packaging, both versions of the films, more bonus footage, etc., etc. It is obvious to me they aren't selling to get rid of stock, they are selling a brand new, well thought out product!

So yeah, maybe we got this whole thing all wrong and are looking at it skewed. The SEs are the ones that aren't selling well, so now they need to use the OUT to sell them! Imagine the iorny in this folks! Plus, this method will now expose an entire group of people to the OUT that may have never seen it before. Some may actually say, "Hey, this version makes way more sense!", actually prefer that version and ask for that on future releases..

I firmly believe with each passing day and more thought that this is all blowing up in Lucas' face.

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Originally posted by: ESHBG
I firmly believe with each passing day and more thought that this is all blowing up in Lucas' face.


Amen to that!!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Not to nick-pick but,
Early '05, the DVDs can be purchased seperately.
? I guess I missed that one....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: vbangle
Not to nick-pick but,
Early '05, the DVDs can be purchased seperately.
? I guess I missed that one....


And I missed both '05 releases. I had no idea they ever released them separately until I was in a Best Buy a few months ago and saw them sitting on the shelf. Of course, I don't get a weekly newspaper, so I wouldn't have seen the Christmas ad. I also don't read TFN nearly as much as I use to, so if they had it listed, I probably missed the news item there as well. Just goes to show how little Star Wars means to me anymore (I use to be on top of everything Star Wars).
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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The DVDs were never available separately before. That's part of the big deal about this release.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
The DVDs were never available separately before. That's part of the big deal about this release.

Neil

Well they sure were here in this part of the US (PA). I saw them in Circuit City, Best Buy, etc., etc. In fact, it was even advertised a few times in local sale ads when they first did this. I don't know where lordjedi lives but he just saw them a few months ago too.

This is just proving my point yet again, though: all of these releases and zero fuss and not even a blip! zero fuss and no blip = zero sales...IMO Lucas is getting desperate. His cash cow isn't that important anymore because he has screwed up soooo many times, and I think his company is finally talking some sense into him...it's only a matter of time!
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Each of those are sold by third party sellers through Amazon, not by Amazon itself. So it seems that these are prople who have separated the sets into individual singles.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
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Originally posted by: Harlock415
Each of those are sold by third party sellers through Amazon, not by Amazon itself. So it seems that these are prople who have separated the sets into individual singles.

True, so I am guessing it was left up to the individual retailers then? Either way, barely a blip...
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I'm out in California. It did shock me to see them that way though Neil. I don't read the circulars each week, but I would have thought they'd get a larger promotion than what they did. I don't remember seeing anything advertised anywhere about the movies being sold separately, but I swear I saw them that way.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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From the official e-mail sent out from Lucasfilm...

We hoped that releasing those “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs.


Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
From the official e-mail sent out from Lucasfilm...

We hoped that releasing those “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs.


Neil

Well apparently they lied, as I was able to buy them individually since '05, lordjedi can buy them at his Best Buy, and anyone can get them off of Amazon.com. Again, maybe it was up to the individual retailers and this is simply the first time LFL is doing a world-wide individual release right out of the gate.

Gee, I am so shocked that LFL is bending the truth yet again.
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Yep, they've been available as individuals here at California retailers since at least last Xmastime.

All the talk about wobble and artifacts and crappy looking whatever is making me a bit nervous ... but - since my standards for a 1977 film are merely to reproduce how it looked as a 1977 film, perhaps I won't be terribly disappointed.

I am NOT holding Star Wars up to a 2006 produced and DVD-mastered level. If it looks as it did 30 years ago, I will be satisfied. If, on the other hand, the whole thing shakes like a bowl of jello ... I am going to cry.


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