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So, this is how the DVDs are going to look... — Page 9

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Originally posted by: vbangle

How's that? Don't you understand that on your widescreen TV the Offical OOT won't be anything like the screen captures in this thread? It's going to be this tiny litttle movie in a sea of black, of course you could zoom in which always looks like shit, but to each his own....

You answered your own question. It is de rigeur to scale letterboxed 4:3 films horizontally and vertically when viewing them on a 16:9 device. The only reason I can think not to would be if the subs got cut off. Scaling both images to the same size most closely reproduces the way owners of widescreen devices will be watching it.

I know this, that the screen caps in this thread of the OOT were not zoomed in on, so if you do this on your own TV it will look worse than it does here....


My own TV* is also much larger than the eight square inches of screen real estate these screen shots occupy, so whether I zoom the image on the TV or not, that's a given.

Oh, and the OOT screen captures were enlarged before they were posted. Look at the size (720x633) and compare that to the size of a properly-displayed 4:3 NTSC DVD frame (640x480).

* Not really mine, but every now and then I get to watch movies on it.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy

Scaling both images to the same size most closely reproduces the way owners of widescreen devices will be watching it.

Says you....If you like to zoom in on 4:3 material then good luck with that, however most people I know would rather watch it in it's native resolution, which is the lesser of two evils to be sure.
And yes you are correct that the images have been resized somewhat, however mark my words the zoomed imaged on your TV screen,(and on my 56" HD 16:9 WS) will look worse. Just wait and see.

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I've never known anyone to watch a 4:3 letterboxed movie in its "native" resolution unless their particular combination of DVD player, television, and/or standalone upscaler doesn't allow proper scaling. Every DVD player and widescreen TV I've used in person makes it very easy, and at least one combination did it automatically (i.e. with no user intervention, it adjusted the screen to maximize the area used by the film frame). Everything I've read on home theater forums for a number of years suggests that Joe Sixpack considers "black bars" to be anathema and buffs want the biggest OAR picture they can get, even if it means they must futz with the resolution. In fact, upscaling DVD players and external scalers/deinterlaces are a pretty big market for HT enthusiasts and other discerning consumers.

[quote]And yes you are correct that the images have been resized somewhat, however mark my words the zoomed imaged on your TV screen,(and on my 56" HD 16:9 WS) will look worse. Just wait and see.
[/quote]

Well, yes, the fact that you're scaling it to a much huger area ensures that. I think I mentioned that already.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I always zoom in on letterboxed images on my widescreen tv. In fact, i was just watching my DC ESB laserdisc on it last night. You'd be surprised at how good you can get those laserdiscs to look on a widescreen tv with just a little adjustment on the picture controls (sharpness, color, contrast, etc.) I know i was! I expected them to look like crap, but they are actually quite satisfying. They don't look as good as a nice new anamorphic dvd, but they certainly don't look bad.... They look good enough that i forget all about the format/quality i'm watching them on & get sucked into the story, just like i always have. In fact, i still haven't made up my mind on the dvds & my laserdiscs are playing a big part in that. They look so much better than i expected on my new tv, that the dvd's aren't nearly so tempting. Had they been new tranfsers with anamorphic enhancement i'd be first in line to get them, but since i really don't believe in supporting a product that is so insulting/lazy (they should be working hard to get me to spend my money on their product, dangit!!), I'm really not sure i care to purchase them at all now, regardless of what the reviews wind up saying. (if i just can't stand it, perhaps i'll enlist the help or rental stores & my friends DVD-R drive...)

Back on topic, the only time i don't zoom in on letterboxed material is if it does, indeed cut off so much of the subtitles that they are unreadable. (on the starwars laserdiscs, it cuts off the bottom portion of the letters, but enough is visible that you can still read it, even if you don't have the lines memorized by now...)
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Originally posted by: vbangle
Says you....If you like to zoom in on 4:3 material then good luck with that, however most people I know would rather watch it in it's native resolution, which is the lesser of two evils to be sure.
It's only scaled vertically. If it's in it's "native resolution" - as you put it - it's been scaled horizontally.

Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Back on topic, the only time i don't zoom in on letterboxed material is if it does, indeed cut off so much of the subtitles that they are unreadable. (on the starwars laserdiscs, it cuts off the bottom portion of the letters, but enough is visible that you can still read it, even if you don't have the lines memorized by now...)

Hmm, I didn't even think about that one. I am wondering if they will put the subtitles in the actual picture (you know, exactly where the "original theatrical version" would have them *ahem*) or down in the black like they did with many of the versions.

Can somebody who's seen the DVDs confirm for me where the subtitles are located?

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Originally posted by: vbangle
And from now on when people post screen captures of the Offical OOT, can you please not crop out the black bars?


As long as the original screen captures are scaled to the same size as each other, preferably 720px wide,
and no compression has been applied, this will be enough to gain a good visual comparison between the
two images when looking for relative quality.

The black bars are really irrelevant in this case, as it is the amount of picture information eg. detail,
colour etc stored in each frame that are looking for here.



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Originally posted by: ESHBG

Back on topic, the only time i don't zoom in on letterboxed material is if it does, indeed cut off so much of the subtitles that they are unreadable. (on the starwars laserdiscs, it cuts off the bottom portion of the letters, but enough is visible that you can still read it, even if you don't have the lines memorized by now...)

Hmm, I didn't even think about that one. I am wondering if they will put the subtitles in the actual picture (you know, exactly where the "original theatrical version" would have them *ahem*) or down in the black like they did with many of the versions.

Can somebody who's seen the DVDs confirm for me where the subtitles are located?


They are soft subtitles, so they are not directly on the film. So for me when I zoomed in the pic to fill my screen, I lose the subs for the alien languages. Even with the XY scaling of my Momitsu.

Of course, the subtitles for the LD were hard subbed. So I guess the masters did not have subtitles burned into them.
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Originally posted by: Harlock415
Originally posted by: ESHBG

Back on topic, the only time i don't zoom in on letterboxed material is if it does, indeed cut off so much of the subtitles that they are unreadable. (on the starwars laserdiscs, it cuts off the bottom portion of the letters, but enough is visible that you can still read it, even if you don't have the lines memorized by now...)

Hmm, I didn't even think about that one. I am wondering if they will put the subtitles in the actual picture (you know, exactly where the "original theatrical version" would have them *ahem*) or down in the black like they did with many of the versions.

Can somebody who's seen the DVDs confirm for me where the subtitles are located?


They are soft subtitles, so they are not directly on the film. So for me when I zoomed in the pic to fill my screen, I lose the subs for the alien languages. Even with the XY scaling of my Momitsu.

Of course, the subtitles for the LD were hard subbed. So I guess the masters did not have subtitles burned into them.

Thanks, Harlock415! So just to clarify: the subtitles are in the letter box's lower black part?
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They're soft subtitles. The exact position can differ from player to player.
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Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Dude, they're soft subtitles. The exact position can differ from player to player.

Dude, I didn't know the difference so hence why I asked for clarification. Not everyone on these boards is an expert in home theatre technology...

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They're soft subtitles. The exact position can differ from player to player.


Subtitles are stored as four-colour full screen images, so they should always appear in the same place on all players, which in this case will be bad if the subs are outside the 16:9 frame and people want to zoom to fill their wide screens (some TVs have a "subtitle" zoom for exactly this situation).

The best use of this facility I've seen was on the Ghostbusters DVD. There's a subtitle track which takes the form of an MST3K-style silhouette of the people doing the commentary

DE
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Originally posted by: Darth Editous
They're soft subtitles. The exact position can differ from player to player.


Subtitles are stored as four-colour full screen images, so they should always appear in the same place on all players, which in this case will be bad if the subs are outside the 16:9 frame and people want to zoom to fill their wide screens (some TVs have a "subtitle" zoom for exactly this situation).

The best use of this facility I've seen was on the Ghostbusters DVD. There's a subtitle track which takes the form of an MST3K-style silhouette of the people doing the commentary

DE


The same subtitle track can have both 16:9 and 4:3 images. It depends on the settings of your dvd player and/or your tv/beamer where they will appear on the screen.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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A person over at Rebelscum.com got ahold of the DVD's early and posted a bunch of Hi-Res images of the Packaging, Discs, paper inserts and the covers.

Here is the link to the images: Hi-Res DVD Packaging Images

Also, notice that the bonus disc of "Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope" says "Star Wars Episode IV A new Hope" instead of just "Star Wars".


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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Also, notice that the bonus disc of "Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope" says "Star Wars Episode IV A new Hope" instead of just "Star Wars".
Yeah. That sucks

Not too keen on 'Bonus Disc' being written on them either, but whatever.

War does not make one great.

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I don't understand why they did that- if they were going to commit to the "no-'episode IV' crawl", why didn't they use the vintage logos for the discs?

BTW, thanks for that link, Marvolo.

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"It's only scaled vertically. If it's in it's "native resolution" - as you put it - it's been scaled horizontally."

You DO realize, of course, that when these folks zoom in on the letterboxed picture on their widescreen TVs, it will be upscaled vertically AND horizontally. This will bring the edges to the sides of the screen, AND cut off a portion of the black bars at the top and bottom. (Hence the comment about cropping the pics not being a problem, not that you were paying attention to this.)

If it were only upscaled on one axis, then you would ruin the aspect ratio - though I'm sure that if Lucas released them in such a way, you'd find a way to explain why this was a good thing.

Anyone got that pic that Neil S. Bulk had in his .sig, showing the black bars encircling the 4x3 SW video frame on all sides when displayed in its "native resolution" on a widescreen TV? I think our little friend needs a visual aide.

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<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

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Originally posted by: Mielr
I don't understand why they did that- if they were going to commit to the "no-'episode IV' crawl", why didn't they use the vintage logos for the discs?

BTW, thanks for that link, Marvolo.


No problem.


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Yep, another typical Lucas release where very little makes any sense. I am seriously wondering if they outsource all of their work to hermits who have no clue what SW is LOL. i.e. still putting EP IV on the bonus disc...Luke's blue light saber on the ROTJ inside cover art...

As more time passes, the "Bonus Disc" label on the OUT discs affects me less and less. In fact it sort of makes it more special, as a bonus is always something good.
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The "IV A New Hope" can easily be explained by the fact that it's printed on the bonus disc accompanying EIV:ANH. It is not unusual for bonus discs to bear the title of the feature, rather than the bonuses contained thereon. In fact, that's how it's labeled: Star Wars IV A New Hope Bonus Disc.

By way of comparison, disc three of Return of the King: EE is simply labeled, "Return of the King / The Appendices," instead of the title of the program ("The Appendices Part 5: The War of the Ring").
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
The "IV A New Hope" can easily be explained by the fact that it's printed on the bonus disc accompanying EIV:ANH. It is not unusual for bonus discs to bear the title of the feature, rather than the bonuses contained thereon. In fact, that's how it's labeled: Star Wars IV A New Hope Bonus Disc.

By way of comparison, disc three of Return of the King: EE is simply labeled, "Return of the King / The Appendices," instead of the title of the program ("The Appendices Part 5: The War of the Ring").


Not to burst your bubble, but my Return of the King Appendicies disc says " The Return of the King Part Five: The War of the Ring".


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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Not to burst your bubble, but my Return of the King Appendicies disc says " The Return of the King Part Five: The War of the Ring".


As does mine.
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Huh. It does say that on the side. Bad choice for an example, but it was all I had handy. The point stands, though.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Bloody hell, Fox really didn't want me to open those DVDs! I don't know about anyone else, but the security stickers on mine were really tacky, and left loads of residue on the cases. I just spent ages using sticky tape to get it off a piece at a time. I'm in work at the moment so the only copy of PowerDVD I have is some useless cut-down Dell version, but first impressions of the transfers are not good. I'll see how they stack up when I get home.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Originally posted by: Mentasm
Bloody hell, Fox really didn't want me to open those DVDs! I don't know about anyone else, but the security stickers on mine were really tacky, and left loads of residue on the cases. I just spent ages using sticky tape to get it off a piece at a time. I'm in work at the moment so the only copy of PowerDVD I have is some useless cut-down Dell version, but first impressions of the transfers are not good. I'll see how they stack up when I get home.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say then...