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So, this is how the DVDs are going to look... — Page 4

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Originally posted by: boris

And the funny thing is on any other DVD release people wouldn't even be aware that they used the same master tapes as were used for LD releases.


It's not that hard. Look at a DVD title. Is it non-anamorphic? Stereo sound? Is there a pre-existing laserdisc? If so, you've probably got a laserdisc port. Looking at my DVD collection, there is one that I know is an LD port (Criterion Silence of the Lambs), and another that I suspect is a port based on my criteria (1st edition Star Trek Generations).
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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starwars.com has released a slideshow comparing the original 1977 film to the 1997 and 2004 edits. While I highly doubt it, it is possible that the place they GOT their 1977 is the new DVDs.

So that might be a place to look to compare the old and new...generally speaking, the colors just look washed out on the 1977. I saw a few places were the detail wasn't as fine.
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OK...this is very dangerous to say here, I know...but I like the way the originals look.

Here's the thing.

I like film grain.
I like dirt & scratches.
I like that they look the way, at least, I remember them.

I know the whole story of how these came about, and how pissed people are. I understand. But for me, when it comes down to it, watching these films isn't about the latest technology in film clean-up, or colour correction, or anything like that...

Call me stupid (and I know someone will) but if the DVD's look like those screenshots then I'll be satisfied.

Sorry. I hate that I have to apologize for liking them in the midst of all of you, but I'm going to buy them based on those screenshots - a decision I'd been holding off on until I had more information...
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Originally posted by: starkiller
starwars.com has released a slideshow comparing the original 1977 film to the 1997 and 2004 edits. While I highly doubt it, it is possible that the place they GOT their 1977 is the new DVDs.

So that might be a place to look to compare the old and new...generally speaking, the colors just look washed out on the 1977. I saw a few places were the detail wasn't as fine.

Yeah, I created a post on that in the other forum:

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=6368


Sometimes I wonder if they aren't doing the whole anamorphic thing for nostalgia purposes, and they want it to look as bare bones and '77 '80 '83 as possible....

...eh, probably not...
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Here is a comparison against a screen cap from the 2004 dvd release:

Can you guess which is which? Hmmmmm? Tough call I know.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7411/sdcompbo3.jpg
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Quote from my friend
"OK...this is very dangerous to say here, I know...but I like the way the originals look.

Here's the thing.

I like film grain.
I like dirt & scratches.
I like that they look the way, at least, I remember them.

I know the whole story of how these came about, and how pissed people are. I understand. But for me, when it comes down to it, watching these films isn't about the latest technology in film clean-up, or colour correction, or anything like that...

Call me stupid (and I know someone will) but if the DVD's look like those screenshots then I'll be satisfied.

Sorry. I hate that I have to apologize for liking them in the midst of all of you, but I'm going to buy them based on those screenshots - a decision I'd been holding off on until I had more information... "

I couldnt agree more,I thought this is what everyone wanted,straight transfer of the original on dvd,i mean what the hell was the OT petition for,it was this right?
well i know i will be buying them,In NTSC and PAL,and i will make my own anamorphic widescreen version,right Sean?
DJ
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Yep, DJ! I very much look forward to your project and complementing your hard work with some cover art. I will be buying the NTSC set - probably at Best Buy Canada so I can get the cool tin...can't wait to see how your conversion turns out, man.
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"I will be buying the NTSC set - probably at Best Buy Canada so I can get the cool tin"

cool tin,what is that,i dont think we get that down here,do you have a pic?
DJ
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Originally posted by: dark_jediI thought this is what everyone wanted,straight transfer of the original on dvd,i mean what the hell was the OT petition for,it was this right?


Really? The petition said that we wanted a straight transfer from LD masters? LMAO

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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I have come to the conclusion that they could have been much worse.


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Originally posted by: Vigo
Of course they do. Those movies were in perfect shape when freshly unloaded from the camera... The only tinkering done to it was ridiculously boosting up the colours and of course the SE changes. You're wrong:On September 21, when Star Wars fans insert A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi on DVD for the first time, they are going to see picture quality no Star Wars audience has ever seen... including those at the first screening of the first day back in May 1977.

...

At the Lowry Digital Images facility, over 600 Macintosh dual-processor G5 computers utilizing over 2400 gigabytes of RAM and 478 terabytes (over 478 million megabytes) of hard drive space processed each of the classic Star Wars films for over 30 break-neck days to create the stunning new versions fans will see in the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set.

"There are three key contributing factors to the degradation of film," Lowry explains. "Dirt, time and chemical damage due to conventional restoration processes."

...

But the greatest challenge on the Star Wars trilogy was dirt damage. The more a film is used, the more dirt it accumulates. The unexpected success of A New Hope took a particular toll because each copy of the film ended up being played far more often than is usual, to the point where even Fox Studio's master originals began to wear out keeping up with demand.

"We have never seen anything quite this bad from a dirt perspective," says Lowry. "At some point the dirt becomes part of the picture and very, very hard to get rid of."

Over the years, Lowry Digital's computer algorithms have evolved from automating the removal of hundreds of pieces of dirt in a scene, to handling the 100,000 pieces of dirt in the Indiana Jones trilogy, to taking on the Star Wars trilogy which required automated and manual removal of up to a million pieces of dirt in scenes like R2-D2 and C-3PO's arrival on Tatooine in A New Hope.

The Star Wars restoration process began with a 10-bit RGB high-definition scan of the original negatives. This data was then used by a team at Lucasfilm and Industrial Light & Magic to work with George Lucas to do some significant color correction to the movies. This color-timed data was then transferred to Lowry Digital hard drives, to begin the massive clean-up effort.

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Loucst demanded the highest level of grain removal. It does not truly represent the original negative.

And as for your other comment, I wish you would stop calling them "LD transfers" - because it just shows that either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're biased to the point of over-exaggerations and false claims.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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I want the highest quality OUT DVDs, so I'm thinking of getting the PAL versions. So I'm going to have to buy from someplace overseas. I'm an English speaker, so I may as well buy from the UK, Australia, or NZ. And of those, I imagine that the UK market is by far the largest, and therefore the selection and prices will probably be best.

So, for those of you in the UK (Moth3r, for example?), which online retailer would you recommend?

I'm in Canada, so I could also work out something if somebody wants a Best Buy metal case. (Please don't PM me; send e-mail to the address below).
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Dirt removal is not the same as film grain. DUH

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: boris


And as for your other comment, I wish you would stop calling them "LD transfers" - because it just shows that either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're biased to the point of over-exaggerations and false claims.


They are LD transfers.


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Originally posted by: bactaOT
Here is a comparison against a screen cap from the 2004 dvd release:

Can you guess which is which? Hmmmmm? Tough call I know.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7411/sdcompbo3.jpg

Is that a joke? Did that bottom pic come from the '04 DVD? It looks awful!

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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Originally posted by: boris


And as for your other comment, I wish you would stop calling them "LD transfers" - because it just shows that either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're biased to the point of over-exaggerations and false claims.


They are LD transfers.


They used the same master tapes which they used to produce the LD's. That does not make them LD transfers. It makes them "Tapes That Were Used To Make LD's" transfers.

You make it sound like they popped the old laserdiscs into a player and encoded them to DVD.
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"The Star Wars restoration process began with a 10-bit RGB high-definition scan of the original negatives. This data was then used by a team at Lucasfilm and Industrial Light & Magic to work with George Lucas to do some significant color correction to the movies. This color-timed data was then transferred to Lowry Digital hard drives, to begin the massive clean-up effort."

So Lucas and ILM are to blame for the horrible colors. I guess Lowry did a good job removing scratches. But that is very stupid to do it that way. You get the highest quality scan, then you remove whatever picture flaws or dirt. The LAST thing to do is color correction. If you color correct a film covered in dirt, then wouldn't there be a risk of the color being oversaturated and unbalenced when the dirt is removed? Maybe that's what went wrong.
To see how Star Wars looked before THX, look at the official screenshots page for the Japanese Special Collection.
I hope the people who originally posted these shots don't mind me reposting them for comparison.

Film example
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f4a8af8c3b.jpg

dvd
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/cfc1fd48d7.jpg

X0 newsletter (Judge it not by its size but by color & contrast)
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/88ec861348.jpg

dvd
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/1c5faef7a9.jpg

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Originally posted by: bactaOT
Here is a comparison against a screen cap from the 2004 dvd release:

Can you guess which is which? Hmmmmm? Tough call I know.
Here's some more... All are identical film frames:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4420/06atk9.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1603/06blb0.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9455/09apt5.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6615/09ber4.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3200/02apd5.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6207/02bvu1.jpg

Can you tell which is which?
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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They did a whole new set of transfers for the Definitive LD set- with color/contrast correction, new sound mixes, etc., and the resulting digital tape masters were used for the 1993 laserdiscs (and the 1995 "faces" videotapes and LDs).

I'm not defending the fact that they're using these masters for the DVDs (we should have a NEW set of anamorphic transfers for the DVDs) but there is a lot of confusion about these so-called 'laserdisc masters'.

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I couldnt agree more,I thought this is what everyone wanted,straight transfer of the original on dvd,i mean what the hell was the OT petition for,it was this right?


As these DVD transfers do not meet industry stards, I must repectfully disagree.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
I want the highest quality OUT DVDs, so I'm thinking of getting the PAL versions. So I'm going to have to buy from someplace overseas. I'm an English speaker, so I may as well buy from the UK, Australia, or NZ. And of those, I imagine that the UK market is by far the largest, and therefore the selection and prices will probably be best.

So, for those of you in the UK (Moth3r, for example?), which online retailer would you recommend?

I'm in Canada, so I could also work out something if somebody wants a Best Buy metal case. (Please don't PM me; send e-mail to the address below).
The UK DVD market has high prices. So does their CD market. The cost of living in the UK is also very high. Your best bet is to go with an R4 retailer. EzyDVD has them here:

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/788855

That's roughly $17.40 a pop in your currency (excluding postage) - and I would consider that a bargain if I was buying R1 DVD's online.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ESHBG
I just can't get this out of my head: there has got to be some logical reason why these aren't going to be anamorphic (other than "Lucas trying to screw the fans over"). No matter how bad you wanted to prove a point, I doubt you would risk your company's reputation...right?!?!?!?!?
Well, there's the official line as I received from Lucasfilm Ltd. Publicity Rep John Singh that the LaserDisc source is the source "which represents the best restoration that has been possible on the original movies".

Whether this means that there doesn't exist a print or that Lucas won't allow a print to be made available is open to interpretation. Theories abound since Lucas went on a Star Wars film recall spree years ago and apparently destroyed all the prints he could get his hands on.
Wouldn't it be funny if they came out and they were anamorphic after all LOL

That would be a fantasy come true...

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Originally posted by: Mike O
I couldnt agree more,I thought this is what everyone wanted,straight transfer of the original on dvd,i mean what the hell was the OT petition for,it was this right?


As these DVD transfers do not meet industry stards, I must repectfully disagree.

I agree with Mike. Who would've thought when they signed the petition that the OOT would get relegated to back-seat bonus material?

Not me.

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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Originally posted by: ESHBG
I just can't get this out of my head: there has got to be some logical reason why these aren't going to be anamorphic (other than "Lucas trying to screw the fans over"). No matter how bad you wanted to prove a point, I doubt you would risk your company's reputation...right?!?!?!?!?

Well, there's the official line as I received from Lucasfilm Ltd. Publicity Rep John Singh that the LaserDisc source is the source "which represents the best restoration that has been possible on the original movies".

Whether this means that there doesn't exist a print or that Lucas won't allow a print to be made available is open to interpretation. Theories abound since Lucas went on a Star Wars film recall spree years ago and apparently destroyed all the prints he could get his hands on.


Ahem.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death