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So, are all the Stormtroopers from IV-VI clones?..

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This may have been discussed, but if all of the troopers from IV-VI are going to be written off as clones, rather than explains as gained through fear and promise of protection (how, say, the Nazis gained their troops), then I'll be pissed.

Don't you think, at one point, for example, when Luke and Han put on the stormtrooper uniforms in the Death Star, they would have mumbled, "huh... all these guys look the same... that's odd"?

So, if this is true, and they changed Boba Fett's voice in ESB for the SE DVD release to the voice of the actor who plays Jango, the guy with the Ausie accent, will they eventually go back and change every stormtroopers voice from IV-VI, too?

This is getting outa hand!
If they changed Boba Fett's voice to that Ausie bastard's for the DVD SE, will they eventually go back and redo all the stormtroopers, as well (if we're left to assume they're all clones)? Ugh, when will it end?
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1. Actually, I don't recall ever seeing the discussion on our boards.

2. Its possible that the entire galaxy knew that the stormtroopers were clones, so Han and Luke wouldn't have had any reason to be surprised.

3. I think the rationale behind NOT redoing all the voices is that, even with cloning, individuals are going to have different things happen during their lives that will cause their voices to be different.
Also, cloning is not 100% perfect.
I don't know if you've seen Stargate SG-1, but an example of the troubles with the cloning process are evident in the Asgard. Their species is (or at least was) dying because their cloning techniques caused DNA breakdowns.
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I'm glad I'm not copying anyone, or upsetting anyone by repeating a topic.

If the reasoning behind NOT changing voices is as you said, then shouldn't Boba's voice be different than his dad's? Considering he was somewhere around 11 when his father died, and assuming that he had no one else, and that accent wouldn't stick around if he spent more time without it than with it (assuming he was beyond 22+ in ESB)?
If they changed Boba Fett's voice to that Ausie bastard's for the DVD SE, will they eventually go back and redo all the stormtroopers, as well (if we're left to assume they're all clones)? Ugh, when will it end?
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I think the biggest reason is that they couldn't all have the same voice or Han and Luke's disguise would fool nobody.

On the other hand, Kaminoan clones of Jango weren't the only clones used in the war. There was also the Spaarti clones, which grew in months and had could be taught with Flash Learning, but were mentally unstable.

4

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Actually, we have discussed this before but it was well over a year ago. It would be nice to have new input from all the rest who have joined since then.

What I posted before on the topic is that Stormtroopers are not all clones. Some may be, but not all. The reason why they are not clones anymore is that an army was needed quickly and they didn't have time to recruit and train, so they built genetically, hence the Clonetroopers in AOTC and ROTS. However, as the prestige and renown of the Clonetroopers spread with the birth of the Empire, the need to create them waned as people wanted to sign up (or they could have instituted a draft, who knows?). So they now have an army of whatever happens to fit the uniform. This also helps to explain why Stormtroopers are such bad shots and have different voices than Jango and his clones who all sounded the same and were great shots (as I recall)... they're human (arguably) and quite fallible.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I'm not sure why, but as a kid in the 70's and 80's I was quite certain the stormtroopers were all clones. Maybe it's mentioned in one of the Han Solo books or a Lando book or what have you. I know I didn't arrive at that conclusion on my own. I always thought that the soldiers in drab uniforms were real human recruits and the troopers were clones. [In one of the books, Han Solo's backstory involved him training to be an officer and losing his rank when he saved Chewbacca.]

Also, didn't Lucas say that Jango hitting his head was meant to suggest that his clumsiness was passed-down to the stormtrooper in the original Star Wars? That sort of ends the debate.

As for why the stormtroopers can't shoot worth crap and don't speak with Kiwi accents -- well, assuming Lucas doesn't re-dub every piece of Stormtrooper dialogue for the next special edition (and I bet he wants to) -- I would sort of accept the idea that, like the technology of prequel universe vs. the original films, the clones have dulled under the rule of the empire. The empire doesn't "grow them like they used to," and that's why the troopers have bad aim. The clones could have lost their accents over the years because they're not being grown by the same company by the time of the original Star Wars (and why would an accent be genetic anyhow?).
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Redubbing Boba's voice with the guy who played Jango still bugs me. If you're the baddest bounty hunter in the galaxy, do you want your real voice coming out of that helmet? There are times you'd want to lose the armor and be anonymous in a crowd, or have a drink at the local cantina without having to watch your back all the time!

Where were you in '77?

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For some reason I just don't like the idea of the Storm Troopers being clones. I don't know why, I just don't like it.
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I don't mind the Stormtroopers being clones when the Empire is making the clone army. It's creepy and evil to create an army of disposable humans programmed to die on command. The Empire is all about being evil, so the clone army fits with the Empire's profile.

I HATE the fact that the Jedi employed the clone army without questioning the morality of what they were doing. The clones are essentially slaves from birth, and the Jedi accepted their roles as slavemasters without so much as blinking in "Attack of the Clones."
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What I find even more silly is the fact that before they got the clones, the Republic had no armed forces! Atleast is that what is said in AOTC.
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Exactly! The trade federation is using droids. So why didn't the republic make its own droid army between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones? Yeah, the Jedi can kick bot ass, but why waste Jedi time on robots when the republic could have built robots to fight robots?

Of course, Palpatine was probably in charge of defense for the republic.

Either way, the "twist" of having the clones serve as "good guys" in AotC was a poor choice, and it really raised questions about how much the Jedi value human freedom. The only redeeming things I've seen come out of Lucas' decision to make the Jedi lead the clone army were the cool special forces troopers in the Clone Wars cartoons. I mean, when I used to play Star Wars as a kid, my Stormtroopers were always unique and badass even though they were totally disposable in the films, so it was nice to see a few cartoon troopers who *almost* had individual personalities.
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Those of you who owned a copy of the PC game "Tie Fighter" may recall a small piece of EU fiction that camed along with it, narrating the adventures of a Tie Fighter pilot who had a friend who voluntiered to be a Stormtrooper. There's a book where Luke Skywalker meets a Stormtrooper who befriends him or something...

So the answer is: according to the EU, no, they are NOT clones. According to GL, who knows (not even GL knows)... But I'm guessing not, I belive the clones were slowly dying and being replaced with voluteers and stuff...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Warbler: the JEDI were they armed force.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I raised this question in another thread some time ago. My conclusion is that to begin with they were all clones but by episode 4 the Empire had started recruiting/conscripting.

War does not make one great.

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"We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" - Mace Windu

According to the EU, the Republic was so vast and powerful few had the power to argue with it. That might be why they had no standing army. Strangely enough, even after AOTC, it never occured to me to think that the stormtroopers are clones. It wasn't until some tectless jerk on another forum argued with me that the though occured. After all, the Clone Wars had pasted twenty years. Cloning wasn't common in the EU. That gave the impression that after the Clone War, cloning wasn't necessary or the technology lost. After the establishment of the empire, raising troops shouldn't be a problem. I would think that even civilians fought in the Clone War. After all, how ridiculous is the idea that in the entire galaxy no one wanted to fight for the Republic/Empire? While I might agree that essentially having an army of mindless slaves would add to the evil of the Empire, it just sounds ludicrous. One person suggested that the Imperial Academies were only for officers. Why train recruits as officers when one could raise a specialized clone?

One complaint I have with the prequels is just how bloodless the wars have been. An army of Droids against an army of mindless, ever loyal clones just kind of removes the idea of a galaxy at war. The OT had a divided galaxy. The Empire had its supporters, while others fought in the Rebellion. You had the concept of brother against brother in a galactic civil war. In the PT, you basically have a select few playing a game of galactic chess with seemingly little at stake. If you saw a rebel killed in action, one could think, "There went someone father/brother/etc". In the PT, it's, "Looks like we need to build more droids" of, "We'll grow a new one". Sure, there are the worlds that are ravaged, but I still think it really takes something out of it. It's like the rest of the galaxy couldn't care less so let the Republic have it's little war. That's the image presented in prequels. I too agree that the Jedi seemed to accept the clone army without question did seem a tad odd. I alway assumed the clones were going to be the enemy. Why else call it the Clone War? This seems more like the war of the Sepertists.

Most likely, when Lucas wrote the words "You fought in the Clone Wars?" he was merely thinking up something vague that sounded interesting. With little thought to anything else.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I raised this question in another thread some time ago. My conclusion is that to begin with they were all clones but by episode 4 the Empire had started recruiting/conscripting.


As I was saying...
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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Well it is a dictatorship by committee. That sort of thing happens.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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I think the comics show more of the tragedy that the universe is going through during the clone wars. You get see worlds and families fighting against the Seperatists, and you see people opposed to the Clones as well. I agree that the OT movies have more of an emotional tone to them because of the rebels, but as far as wide spread slaughter and blood the PT wins out...at least in the comics.

I think it is fairly safe to say that sometime during the period between episodes III and IV that Kamino is either taken out, or their technology is destroyed. There is no mention of Kamino in the OT SE, and with all of the storm troopers looking and sounding different there has to be an explanation. Plus, if you had the ability to crank out armies in a few months time, why would you bother recruiting anyone? Something must happen to Kamino...and then the Spartti clones are created and go crazy...and then they start to recruit.

Also, I like to think that it makes Boba Fett cooler being the last surviving clone of Jango Fett.
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Ah-ha!! I knew I wasn't hallucinating this! The stormtroopers were first categorized as clones in the old "World of Star Wars" special.

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Originally posted by: Asha
Ah-ha!! I knew I wasn't hallucinating this! The stormtroopers were first categorized as clones in the old "World of Star Wars" special.

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Bizarre... But I'm pretty sure this is just an old, weird theory created back then, but with no real meaning now. Stormtroopers from ANH on are NOT clones. Period.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Originally posted by: Asha
Ah-ha!! I knew I wasn't hallucinating this! The stormtroopers were first categorized as clones in the old "World of Star Wars" special.

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Bizarre... But I'm pretty sure this is just an old, weird theory created back then, but with no real meaning now. Stormtroopers from ANH on are NOT clones. Period.



Well, clearly the stormtroopers WERE clones back when the original movies were out (that was an authorized and widely available guide at the time largely based on Lucas' scripting). And don't forget: Lucas said recently (in the AotC commentary?) that Jango's head-bumping was passed along to future stormtroopers. So there's no "period" here. Personally, I can't see why Lucas would introduce clone troopers who look exactly like the stormtroopers, only to ditch the clone concept in favor of recruiting troops. The commentary on the Clone Wars DVD also suggests that future stormtroopers are all clones. Maybe Revenge of the Sith will shed some light on this, but I doubt it.
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For kicks, here's the full text of the 1981 article (via Google cache):

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ORIGIN

The creation of an Imperial Stormtropper. A cloned man is one of a group of
genetically identical humans, an assembly-line product. He is a thinking
man, but he serves a specific purpose and no other. A clone has no
mother; only his trainers, and he accepts his fate because he believes
it is inevitable. A clone is, physically and emotionally, a normal man.
He simply has no human rights and no name. He is the property of the
Emperor. Soldires fully formed in the growth tanks quickly proved
impractical. Scientists found themselves the befuddled fathers of
one hundred sixty pound blubbering idiots. A fetus is now removed
from the hatchery after a gestation peiord of sixty weeks and is delivered
immediately into the hands of its trainers.

TRAINING

As kids, Stormtroopers live like hardened cell block inmaes only
barely under control. Hundreds of nast little orphans with only
one thing on their minds: the sheer unparalleled joy of a good raid.
These boys know that they are special and they strut with the
proud arrogance of samurai. Their military education is picked
up as naturally as an infant learns to talk, and any purpose other
than their preordained future as commandos is inconceivable. By
the time they are actually contracted into service, each Trooper
is anxious to fulfill his common lifelong ambition; to wear the
Imperial armor, and to be carried away with the Star Fleet into
incredible adventure and battle. Trainees are generally devoid
of imagination, but after years of rough talk and stories of
conflicts lost and won, indiviual temperaments emerge.

An introduction of the TIM armored spacesuit: a white eggshell worn
like a second skin and made of super lightweight Impervium. Many
troopers become so attached and dependent on the suits that they
fear to remove them. A black, two piece body temperature control
glove is worn under the armor and is adjustable for comfort.
Eighteen pieces of armor, which include the battery box and control
devices, snap together to form an effective anti-laser cocoon.
Indirect hits are reflected off the surface of the armor, though
it provides little protection against a well-aimed piercing blast.
During the off-duty hours, only the body glove is worn. Each
trooper is issued two body gloves, one set of armor and spare
parts. His helmet features automatic polarized lenses and voice-
activated transceiver. Belts include specialized survival equipment
concentrated ration, emergency batteries, and a Comlink. Additional
equipment is issued for desert and arctic use. Impervium resist
decay so effectively that early models of the spacesuit can still
be found near century-old battle sites. They bring high prices
as souvenirs and privateers rebuild them for another fifty years
of good use.

PROMOTION

Promotion to Squad Leader comes with battle experience and long
months of straight duty. Just staying alive long enough helps,
most old Troopers are Squad Leaders . Real promotion, however,
is a step up to the Imperial Guards. Each guard is assigned
to an Executive of the Imperium. Governor Moff Tarkin's personal
guard....forty men. Lord Darth Vader's personal guard...twelve
men. Snappy uniforms and light duty. A guard travels with his
assignment, usually to the plushest environments. There are
hazards. The personal ambitions of the leader one is assigned
to protect may give rise to litle-publicized but very lethal
feuds. The size of a titled officer's private army is a factor
in realizing his political goals, and Imperial Guards often find
themselves in the role of hit men. It is a satisfying position.
A Guard never feels he is playing the traitor by assassinating
rival Imperial Officers. Troopers have always been taught that
the enemy are worthless insects to stomped out; but a guard who
has successfully overcom or defended against other Imperial Guards
feels that he has defeated an oppenent worthy of the effort. A
healthy spirit of competition exists in their ranks. No one is
exactly sure what qualities make a clone worthy of promotion - a
special alertness perhaps - but they are much envied. Imperial
Guards are allowed liquor and women.

RETIREMENT

Only a small percentage of Troopers survive to retirement age.
As they get older, they are assigned to light duties; training,
communications, stores. Eventually they are sent to the Troopers'
Rest camp on the holiday planet of Sochi. There are tales of
Troopers who, captured by enemies or wounded and abandoned by their
companions, now live and breathe outside the influence of the
Empire. They have names. Without their armor, they are almost
indistinguishable from the general population. Of course, such
cases are rare. Officially they do not exist. For the most
part however, Imperial Stormtroopers remain loyal 'lifers'
dedicated to the preposition that the only good alien is a dead one.
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Well, I guess that clears up some things. However, this doesn't account for GL's notorious mind changing over the years.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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"Imperial Guards are allowed liquor and women"

WTF?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering