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Small details that took you FOREVER to notice in the Star Wars films — Page 7

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Broom Kid said:

Only just recently noticed this in Empire, but I don’t know if I really noticed it or if I think I noticed it.

The guy in Star Wars who says “enemy fighters coming your way” is, I think, in Empire too? As the same rebel?

I looked it up and apparently that guy’s name is Del Goren, played by Burnell Tucker. IMDB is showing that Burnell Tucker is also in The Empire Strikes Back, and I think he’s the guy who is monitoring the Imperial Probe Droid transmission before Han and Chewie go out after it.

Okay this is interesting, I never knew there was any carryover in terms of Rebel extras. According to Wookiepedia, however, bafflingingly in Empire he is not only not playing the same character from the first film, he’s actually playing two different characters, both who aren’t his character from the first film.

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Identical cousins. 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Broom Kid said:

Yeah, I just looked at the clip and I’m pretty sure this is Burnell Tucker in both instances. But the “It’s metal!” guy ISN’T the same Rebel as “Enemy Fighters” guy?

Star Wars
https://youtu.be/2WBG2rJZGW8?t=246

Empire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmi5sreXVMA

If they’re not the same rebel, seems like a missed opportunity.

FYI his “second” character in Empire is at the end of that clip, on the right of Rieekan. But yeah for sure, according to Wookiepedia I think the characters names come from the novelizations so probably at the time whoever came up with the names just had no idea all three were the same actor.

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LOL, that’s pretty crazy. It seems obvious to me they’re all the exact same person (it’s definitely not two different characters in the same Empire scene)

Should we start a petition to recognize the efforts of Del Goren in his fight against the empire?

JUSTICE FOR DEL

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Broom Kid said:

Only just recently noticed this in Empire, but I don’t know if I really noticed it or if I think I noticed it.

The guy in Star Wars who says “enemy fighters coming your way” is, I think, in Empire too? As the same rebel?

I looked it up and apparently that guy’s name is Del Goren, played by Burnell Tucker. IMDB is showing that Burnell Tucker is also in The Empire Strikes Back, and I think he’s the guy who is monitoring the Imperial Probe Droid transmission before Han and Chewie go out after it.

I love that guy! He seems to take his sweet-a## time saying “we’ve picked up a new group of signals…enemy fighters…”. It’s like he was an extra that was given one line and decided to milk the heck out of it.

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captainsolo said:

The gaffes, errors, problems and shortcuts in SW are all due to Fox nickel and diming everyone the whole time and then the final rush to get shooting finished with everyone bicycling between stages and multiple units going at once.
And that’s a big part of why it is great. And a big chunk of what the SEs remove.

What drives me nuts is the the SE’s were supposed to remove mistakes and they just added in more. So many of GL’s changes don’t actually fix any continuity errors. They fix things GL didn’t like and thought they could do better. He left just about every gaff from editing alone and ended up adding more. The Rock in front of R2 doesn’t fit. The windows in Bespin aren’t consistent. The larger door to Jabba’s palace is only larger on the outside (the inside shots are of the same smaller door).

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The actual Special Editions (the 97 theatrical releases are really the only ones that are actually “Special Editions,” everything else is just Star Wars) seemed a lot more concerned with “fixing” things, and a lot of errors were tackled. The Special Editions were also on Fox’s dime, entirely. Some of the more egregious additions to the Special Editions were done as a sort of testing ground for prequel effects, but the SEs did do a decent job of removing “mistakes” from the original releases.

You’re right however that the 2004 DVD release and the 2011 blu-ray release (which were Lucasfilm budgeted, I believe) were less about fixing anything and more about adding stuff if they could. Those releases didn’t really have the same mandate as the Special Edition did, and likely had a smaller budget. So the idea there was different, and the execution reflects that - those releases are definitely more along the lines of “put that thing in there, that’ll be cool” instead of “here’s a list of errors I’d like cleaned up.”

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Some of it was adding effects for the 3-D release, which may never see the light of day outside Celebration if they show them there at all.

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Broom Kid said:

The actual Special Editions (the 97 theatrical releases are really the only ones that are actually “Special Editions,” everything else is just Star Wars) seemed a lot more concerned with “fixing” things, and a lot of errors were tackled. The Special Editions were also on Fox’s dime, entirely. Some of the more egregious additions to the Special Editions were done as a sort of testing ground for prequel effects, but the SEs did do a decent job of removing “mistakes” from the original releases.

You’re right however that the 2004 DVD release and the 2011 blu-ray release (which were Lucasfilm budgeted, I believe) were less about fixing anything and more about adding stuff if they could. Those releases didn’t really have the same mandate as the Special Edition did, and likely had a smaller budget. So the idea there was different, and the execution reflects that - those releases are definitely more along the lines of “put that thing in there, that’ll be cool” instead of “here’s a list of errors I’d like cleaned up.”

I don’t think the 1997 SE was on Fox’s dime. Lucas wouldn’t have let them get a claim on TESB or ROTJ that way. The SE’s were edits more than fixes. Did they actually fix a single real issue with any of the films? No, only things GL had problems with. He had a vision of what it should be and the SE’s were to mold the films to that vision not to fix any mistakes. The Hoth snow scenes recomposition wasn’t really necessary. It is nice, but not necessary. The audio changes weren’t necessary. The films was fine without the Wampa. The windows in Cloud city were added in some shots and not others creating continuity issues. The three times he touched the films he kept doing that same thing. The only real gaff that he fixed was the Tie-Figher holes on the falcon in ROTJ. Everything else was editing. He didn’t fix a single mistake in ANH (and there are a lot of them). Adywan’s revisited actually fixed the things that needed to be fixed.

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Not necessarily on Fox’s dime but Broom Kid is essentially right anyway - the 97 SE were theatrical rereleases that made a ton of money so a bigger budget was justified. But I wouldn’t call them “edits” or “fixes” though. The edit of the films are virtually the same (only a couple very minor additions). And “fix” might not be the right word, more like “upgrade.” They were just the same movies with new effects (and, yes, a few edits and fixes).

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20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

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Broom Kid said:

20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

Director tinkering is the best description for all three edit passes. It was the same thought process and the same type of changes. Only TESB had some real technical fixes (recompositing the snow effects shots). The rest were outright changes to the entire frame or recompositing new effects over existing footage. There really isn’t much different between changing the door in the 2011 version of ROTJ and changing the sandcrawler in the 1997 SE. Who was paying for it is irrelevant to the nature of the changes. It was all GL tinkering with his films to “improve them”.

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yotsuya said:

Broom Kid said:

20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

Director tinkering is the best description for all three edit passes. It was the same thought process and the same type of changes. Only TESB had some real technical fixes (recompositing the snow effects shots). The rest were outright changes to the entire frame or recompositing new effects over existing footage. There really isn’t much different between changing the door in the 2011 version of ROTJ and changing the sandcrawler in the 1997 SE. Who was paying for it is irrelevant to the nature of the changes. It was all GL tinkering with his films to “improve them”.

Yeah, I agree with your last sentence though I can see where GL was going with some of his edits. He wanted to bring the OT more in line graphically with the PT. Where I find his edits really annoying is when he changed key aspects of the plot or adding FX for no obvious reason.

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Broom Kid said:

The guy in Star Wars who says “enemy fighters coming your way” is, I think, in Empire too? As the same rebel?

Wow, the more you know… Good catch.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Creox said:

yotsuya said:

Broom Kid said:

20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

Director tinkering is the best description for all three edit passes. It was the same thought process and the same type of changes. Only TESB had some real technical fixes (recompositing the snow effects shots). The rest were outright changes to the entire frame or recompositing new effects over existing footage. There really isn’t much different between changing the door in the 2011 version of ROTJ and changing the sandcrawler in the 1997 SE. Who was paying for it is irrelevant to the nature of the changes. It was all GL tinkering with his films to “improve them”.

Yeah, I agree with your last sentence though I can see where GL was going with some of his edits. He wanted to bring the OT more in line graphically with the PT. Where I find his edits really annoying is when he changed key aspects of the plot or adding FX for no obvious reason.

That would be about half of them.

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I was watching “The Andromeda Strain” tonight, and there was a character in it by the name of General Sparks, played by an actor named Peter Hobbs. The entire time I was thinking “I swear to God I recognize this guy’s voice from somewhere” and after about 20 minutes, I thought I finally placed it: General Dodonna from Star Wars.

But Peter Hobbs was clean shaven, didn’t very much look like General Dodonna, and as it turns out, isn’t the guy who played Dodonna. That guy’s name was Alex McCrindle. So I thought “well, that’s weird, but maybe old officious dudes in the 70’s talked like that frequently, I don’t know. In the 30’s everyone sounded like Cary Grant, maybe it’s one of those types of things.”

But then I looked up a video of Alex McCrindle in a role that WASN’T General Dodonna (he ended up having a role in Richard Marquand’s Eye of the Needle, in fact) and Alex McCrindle sounds NOTHING like General Dodonna. And even if he wanted to pitch his voice down and make it crunchier or more officious, he very likely still wouldn’t sound like General Dodonna. So I started wondering if Peter Hobbs overdubbed Alex McCrindle, and started googling around. There’s no official recognition that I can see, no crediting on imdb, and I couldn’t find anything at the usual wiki places, but when I googled the phrase “Peter Hobbs Voice-Over Star Wars” I found this post from four years ago at filmboards.com

https://filmboards.com/board/p/2370744/

Relevant quote:

“My Dad was Peter Hobbs. Years ago I remember him pointing up to a Star Wars marquee, “I’ve only got one line in that, but it’s a doozy. ‘May the force be with you.’” Not sure if that’s what actually happened, but he definitely did some vo on SW. He died a couple of years ago so I can’t ask him for more details. You guys have incredible ears!”

That’d be a really random thing for someone to just make up, of all the things to make up… so I’m pretty sure Peter Hobbs was the voice of General Dodonna.

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It also says the officer who tells Vader about the escape pod has the same voice, which when I think about it is true. Another case of weird dubbing like many of the British actors in the OT.

Yub Nub for life

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 (Edited)

It seems like Lucas overdubbed basically anybody who was British (except Alec Guinness) in the first film. Though somehow General Tagge survived. Maybe because his working-class East End voice didn’t sound like a stereotypical upper-class Brit.

Probably it was Irvin Kershner on ESB who decided to let the Imperials use their natural British accents, for the American Revolution symbolism. Lucas, by contrast, thought of the Empire as more like modern-day America, so most likely he wasn’t the one who came up with that.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Mocata said:

It also says the officer who tells Vader about the escape pod has the same voice, which when I think about it is true. Another case of weird dubbing like many of the British actors in the OT.

That’s crazy, isn’t it? All the times I’ve seen this movie and it never occurred to me that the “And no transmissions were made” Imperial at the very beginning has the same voice as the “You’re required to maneuver, straight down this trench” old guy at the very end.

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They didn’t dub Peter Cushing though.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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ATMachine said:

It seems like Lucas overdubbed basically anybody who was British (except Alec Guinness) in the first film. Though somehow General Tagge survived. Maybe because his working-class East End voice didn’t sound like a stereotypical upper-class Brit.

Probably it was Irvin Kershner on ESB who decided to let the Imperials use their natural British accents, for the American Revolution symbolism. Lucas, by contrast, thought of the Empire as more like modern-day America, so most likely he wasn’t the one who came up with that.

That’s very interesting. I hadn’t ever considered that, and it makes good sense.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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Well when you hear Dr. Evzan’s amazing original voice it is understandable why they felt the need to re-dub certain performers…that said I adore the vocal performances of the entire original finished mix. The upper crust narcissistic self absorbed tonalities of Motti against the slightly raspy and justifiably concerned Tagge etc…maybe I just think about this too much. 😉

I was revisiting MONA LISA recently and in the emotional climactic ending suddenly notice the street performers on the pier and loudly shout “OMG IS THAT KENNY-THAT’S TOTALLY KENNY BAKER AND JACK PURVIS!”

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

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