Since when did ROTJ become less highly regarded than even Episodes II or III? — Page 4

Yes, I agree that it's not a real contradiction, and you can rationalize that his confrontation with Vader in ESB is what now have ironically made him ready for the task, that it is entirely an emotional thing but it feels very cheap and doesn't ring true for me, especially with Yoda's convenient death and Leia being the other. Both Ben and Yoda made a pretty big deal out of him leaving before finishing his training in the last film, (even if it only was to raise the stakes for the audience) he only survived out of sheer luck. But now you can face him again, and only then you become a Jedi. A feeling that more time had passed would certainly helped.

Ben: "That boy is our last hope."

Yoda: "No, there is another." - which turns out to be the friend Luke rushing off to save, the same person Yoda earlier suggests Luke should sacrifice for the greater good.

Luke: "And sacrifice Han and Leia."

Yoda: "If you honor what they fight for, yes."

I recall it having been about a year.

SilverWook said:

Has there ever been an official answer to how much time passes between ESB and Jedi?

Don't know but I think it's here more films would have helped to better convey what his encounter with Vader actually did to him psychologically, I get that he wasn't mentally prepared to face Vader in ESB, but the fact that he enters ROTJ as the white knight already is what really makes it hard to buy for me. Luke isn't as conflicted about his father as he ought to be.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_VI:_Return_of_the_Jedi

The film is set in 4 ABY, one year after the Empire's occupation of Cloud City, when Luke Skywalker and friends travel to Tatooine to rescue their friend Han Solo from the vile Jabba the Hutt.

I win. That's for a guy that ate SW trivia up in the 90s but hasn't thought much of it since.

Jaitea said:

ESB was 1980.....ROJ was '83.....um....3years ;)

No, I think it makes sense that Luke returned to Yoda between ESB & ROJ....the way he asks Yoda, "Is Darth Vader my father?" sounds to me like he had asked Yoda before, but now was pressurising him on the subject now that Yoda was on his death bed

Luke says to Artoo when heading towards Dagobah "I have a promise to keep to an old friend". No, this is clearly meant to be his first visit since he left in ESB. They might have spoken over the phone in the last few months though. ;)

georgec said:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_VI:_Return_of_the_Jedi

 

The film is set in 4 ABY, one year after the Empire's occupation of Cloud City, when Luke Skywalker and friends travel to Tatooine to rescue their friend Han Solo from the vile Jabba the Hutt.

 

I win. That's for a guy that ate SW trivia up in the 90s but hasn't thought much of it since.

I believe the EU states that that year was spent looking for Solo, as well, so no time to visit Yoda.

Jaitea said:

Tyrphanax said:

I believe the EU states that that year was spent looking for Solo, as well, so no time to visit Yoda.

At the closing of Empire Luke agrees to meet Lando on Tatooine, it seems to be knowledge to them & the audience that Fett is taking Solo to Jabba....so a year looking for Solo doesn't sound right.

For the gang to meet up on Tatooine soon after Solo was delivered to Jabba to perhaps test security....then set up infiltration, perhaps they had to be pulled into another battle....but there was plenty of time for Luke to revisit Yoda

J

Indeed, but there is a plethora of EU stuff dealing with them chasing Boba around the galaxy.

TheBoost said:

xhonzi said:

BLAST!  THIS WHOLE POST WAS BASED ON A MISREADING OF 'ROTJ' AS 'ROTS'. 

I AGREE WITH TB.  I WILL ALSO SET YOU ON FIRE IF YOU THINK E2 WAS BETTER THAN ROTJ. 

ORIGINAL POST RESUMES:

 

TheBoost said:

Anyone who said Ep II was better than ROTJ would get set on fire by me. 

This logic works for me, so let's try it out on you.

Let's say I owe you $30 and I plan to pay you back in $10 installments over three weeks.

The first week I cough up $3.  Not too bad since I promise to make up for it by pay $14 each of the following weeks.  Final score: 3/10. (30%)

The second week, I pay you $4.  You have to admit, it's more than last week, but is it 4/10 (40%) or 4/14 (29%)?  However, I promise I'll pay you $26 the final week to make up for it.

The third week, I pay you $5.  I am forced to admit I have no more money nor intention of paying you the remainder of what I owe you or have promised.  Did I pay you 5/10 (50%)?  Or did I pay you 5/26 (19%)?

Which week did I pay you the most?  Which week did I most fall short?  Can it be the same week?

As the middle episode of the prequel trilogy, I have the least amount of requirement for AotC.  Is it better than TPM?  Yes, I think it is.  Does it sufficiently muddy the waters in preparation for a... water... purifying... Episode 3?  I think so.  However, it was still pretty bad.  Meaning that if the Prequel Trilogy as a whole was going to redeem itself, then Episode 3 not only had to be good, but it had to be good enough to ease the debt of Episodes 1 & 2.  It wasn't. 

I maintain that Episode 3 was better than Episodes 1 and 2, but still fell well short of "good" and way way short of "good enough to ease the debt". 

If I was forced to watch one again, and not in the Ridiculously Improved Frink Format, it would probably be AotC.  I find it to be the least disappointing, even it's only the second best made.

And a movie that had more than 16 years of hype and waiting that (generally) lived up to the hype: Fellowship of the Ring.

So confused... ... so I don't have to set you on fire, right?

You owe me $26.

Jaitea said:

At the closing of Empire Luke agrees to meet Lando on Tatooine, it seems to be knowledge to them & the audience that Fett is taking Solo to Jabba....so a year looking for Solo doesn't sound right.

About Jabba...people who complain about ROTJ talk badly about the Jabba part, saying the Jabba rescue takes up half the movie. 

That maybe true, but it is GOOD so it's worth it.  Jabba the Hutt is a GOOD character. 

"Ho ho ho ho".  He's like an evil Santa Claus!  This is why ROTJ is a genius movie.

Jaitea said:

SilverWook said:

Tyrphanax said:

Indeed, but there is a plethora of EU stuff dealing with them chasing Boba around the galaxy.

The Marvel comic extended the pursuit for obvious reasons, but they did manage a flashback story or two with Han.

Hmm, I faintly remember all that....but really that was them just selling comics for the 3 year gap....dunno, I just fill in the gaps myself

J

Agree, I'm sure you can explain every doubt in the storytelling by pointing towards EU material, but the fact that we even question these things in the first place is a big flaw in the filmmaking IMO. ROTJ doesn't sit well with many as a follow up to ESB for a reason, I could live with these sort of flaws if everything else in the movie was well done, making Leia Luke's sister has to be the biggest joke of the script but there's a drop in quality in every stage of the production from; script, directing, acting, editing, cinematography and effects that just reeks of getting it over with. I recall a continuity error with Artoo in the ewok village when Luke is using the force in order to set free our heroes, where Artoo goes from tied up to untied to tied up again, nothing really unusual but in a big film like this you expect more attention to detail, especially when the scene deals with our heroes being tied up.

It's a very tired film, Han Solo turned into a clown, his constant winking at the camera to make sure you're aware that it's only a movie and this is just for fun and not to be taken seriously. The stormtroopers running around yelling freeze, they would be equally intimidating with water pistols in their hands. The previous two films never took themselves too seriously, but the up front jokiness in what are meant to be the epic last struggle for the rebellion have scenes like this in it:

IIRC a few moments later you have him shrugging at the camera and basically say sorry to the Imperials when the ewoks turns up. It's campyness with a fun Tarzan yell thrown in. There's no real threat involved, only guys who pretends playing war in the woods. If this is all made in an attempt to counterbalance the tone in those scenes in the throne room I don't know but it doesn't work for me, Star Wars and ESB knew when it should be serious and not so serious.

Very well put, and I certainly agree. I was just giving the EU explanation for the weird time loss.