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Should Lucus make 4,5 and 6 over?

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I think he should make them over. I love the originals but they just look to out of date. Especially IV ANH man it just looks to low budget but its still a good movie. If he does do them over he can really make them how he intended to. He can also add to the story or change little things. I don't think anyone would disagree with a lightsaber battle between the empire and vader at the end of VI ROTJ instead of him just throwing the emp down the drain like he wasn't nothing. I would pay to see that.
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I'd love to see a lightsaber battle between Vader and the Empire. There's gotta be what, a million billion Imperial nationals? Each one with a lightsaber ... it can be rendered in MASSIVE, and the whole movie can be nothing but Vader leaping around shrieking and cutting down pre-rendered people. It would be like the burly brawl in Matrix Reloaded, except two hours longer, and with a hundred thousand billion times as many people.

STAR WARS
EPISODE IV
VADER VS. THE EMPIRE

It is a dark time for Darth Vader. The Empire, thinking he is a whiny child-man, has turned against him. They have gathered on the world of VJUN to strike down the Dark Lord.

Even now, the entire populace of the Empire is bearing down on Vader's fortress, armed with Jedi lightsabers. (See the tie-in novel "Empire's War" and the cartoon series "National Lampoon's Galactic Conflict" for how this came about! -- GL)

But Vader will not go down without a fight. For he is trained in Form VI lightsaber combat and has a midiclorian count even higher than Master Yoda's ....
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Ignoring the fact that I disagreed with Palpatine wielding a lightsaber in the first place (a topic for another thread), if Vader faced off with the Emperor at the end of ROTJ, it would totally destroy the shock of his betrayal. Plus, Luke already cut his hand off... you know, the one with the lightsaber in it?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Je
I would pay to see that.


Well, that makes one of us. Good to know that GL would at least get 10 bucks back.
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Originally posted by: Je
I think he should make them over. I love the originals but they just look to out of date. Especially IV ANH man it just looks to low budget but its still a good movie. If he does do them over he can really make them how he intended to. He can also add to the story or change little things. I don't think anyone would disagree with a lightsaber battle between the empire and vader at the end of VI ROTJ instead of him just throwing the emp down the drain like he wasn't nothing. I would pay to see that.
Son, I'm gonna have to ask you to slowly place the pipe on the ground and step away.


Originally posted by: Scruffy
...and the cartoon series "National Lampoon's Galactic Conflict"...

It's gold, Jerry! Gold!


Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Ignoring the fact that I disagreed with Palpatine wielding a lightsaber in the first place (a topic for another thread)...

I, for one, would like to hear your thoughts on this. Not that I have any issues with your opinion... quite the opposite. I like hearing people ideas on the actual story points of the movies.
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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Okay, I might as well. It's been a while since I elaborated on this. I admit, that in May of 2002, and even in, what was it, November of 2002 when the DVD of Attack of the Clones came out, I was really keen on Yoda's lightsaber acrobatics. Nowadays... to put it simply, I'm not. And by the time Revenge of the Sith came out, I was pretty disgusted that Palpatine was getting in on the act. At first, it was simply because I was annoyed at Lucas giving every single character a lightsaber and telling them to duel. And it's still partly that, but it's more than that as well, I soon figured out.

Strangely enough, I was just thinking about this last night...

Think of Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back. Think of the Emperor from Return of the Jedi. I know I'm not the only person who thinks that fighting with lightsabers is just beneath them, plain and simple. Yoda is the mentor. He lifts X-Wings from the swamp and gives philsophical discussions on the Force. He prepares Luke for his battles. Palpatine is the instigator. He watches with glee from the comfort of his chair as his lackeys go at each other with colored blades. When he needs to exert his authority, he stands up and fries people with lightning bolts without so much as breaking a sweat. And when both of them are done, they simply pick up their canes and hobble away. Giving them lightsabers in the prequels weakened them so much by forcing them to fight on the same level as the main characters. It was just done as a pathetic attempt to make the prequels "more intense!!!"

EDIT: And then Revenge of the Sith added salt to the wound by having them fight each other! At least at one point, for a very short time, they did put away their lightsabers and start attacking each other with the manipulation of objects. That is how they should fight. With object manipulation, Force lightning, strangulation, and any other Force power that Lucas could have created. Instead, the only Force powers they seemed to gain were the ability to jump thousands of feet in the air and move really, really fast. Or, should I say, be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and run faster than a speeding bullet?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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If I may be so bold as to quote Jules Winfield: "That's an interesting point..."

Personally, I loved the Yoda lightsaber duel on AOTC. I always knew Yoda was a stone-cold badass under all that green, and it was nice to see it proven. And again in ROTS, seeing he and Palps duke it out with every imaginable power at their disposal.

Reading your thoughts, about half way through I was thinking "Sure, I see your point, but 5 minutes of the two most powerful Force users in the galaxy staring at each other seemingly doing nothing is something that would better be described in a book... not a movie."

Then as I read the last few lines, it occured to me that you're right. The way they fought each other in the Senate was exactly what they should have been doing all along. Just balls-out crazy shit that ONLY they would be capable of pulling off. Furthermore, it would have made the actual lightsaber battle between Ben and Anakin that much more powerful I think... cutting between the two fights as they did.

So I see your point entirely. Hell, I even agree that Palps and Yoda should have just made a straight up Force mastery contest... would have kicked some serious ass that way. (Get them outside at some point mayhaps... Palps tossing around some cars or what-have-you and Yoda fighting to protect the innocent bystanders involved while trying to win the fight as well... hell, just some thoughts there.)

As I said before, I still enjoyed the fights immensly as they were, (I enjoy the prequels quite a lot, and anyone who says I should apologize for that can go fuck themselves. Cheers!), but you do certainly make a strong case on that one. Hell... maybe I can call on your skills and ideas for some things I'm working on in the RPG arena at the moment. (Star Wars RPG using the Storyteller rules... long story.)
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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I don't care for Yoda with a lightsaber. Besides being the mentor, he was also the most mystical of the Jedi. He thought of his body (well, Luke's body) as "crude matter," did not believe that size made any difference to the Force, he used the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. He should not have engaged in a lightsaber duel. He should not have engaged in a throwing things duel, either. That's simply a lightsaber duel with a different weapon. Yoda should've fought with his voice, with persuasion, with illusion, even through manipulation of space and time. In my interpretation, Yoda would not have concerned himself with the material plane at all.

Palpatine, on the other hand, had none of Yoda's transcendental conceits. He was all about power; acquiring it, brandishing it, and wielding it against his enemies. For that reason, I have no problem with him whipping out a lightsaber and going to town with it. What did disappoint me, however, is how easily he fell into the Jedi pattern of ritualistic dueling. I would've expected a Sith to get right to business without the repartee. Especially after Maul.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Yep, and he probably will in about 20 years (unless he's dead). Mind you, that probably wouldn't stop LFL.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
I don't care for Yoda with a lightsaber. Besides being the mentor, he was also the most mystical of the Jedi. He thought of his body (well, Luke's body) as "crude matter," did not believe that size made any difference to the Force, he used the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. He should not have engaged in a lightsaber duel. He should not have engaged in a throwing things duel, either. That's simply a lightsaber duel with a different weapon. Yoda should've fought with his voice, with persuasion, with illusion, even through manipulation of space and time. In my interpretation, Yoda would not have concerned himself with the material plane at all.

Palpatine, on the other hand, had none of Yoda's transcendental conceits. He was all about power; acquiring it, brandishing it, and wielding it against his enemies. For that reason, I have no problem with him whipping out a lightsaber and going to town with it. What did disappoint me, however, is how easily he fell into the Jedi pattern of ritualistic dueling. I would've expected a Sith to get right to business without the repartee. Especially after Maul.


I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. If Yoda didn't do anything physical at all to win the battle... how would he have won? Palps needed to be stopped. Without lightsabers or the occasional stray Senate hover-thingy, how would he have accomplished this? Harsh language?


Yoda: Evil, you are... stopped, you must be.

Palps: ** Ignites saber ** You're gonna die, frog-boy!

Yoda: Can't we talk this over?

** Palps slashes at Yoda **

Yoda: Out, you must cut that!

** Palps slashes at Yoda again **

Yoda: Stop that, I said!

** Yoda does some weird space/time manipulation thing **

** Palps checks his watch **

Palps: You set the clocks back 5 seconds? You do realize I'm trying to kill you, right?

Yoda: The Force is my ally! Use it for attack, I do not!

** Yoda creates an illusion of a half-naked twi'lek slave girl in an attempt to pacify Palps **

Palps: Look man, if you're not gonna take this whole thing seriously...


Without some sort of physical confrontation going on there, we would have been left with the main boss-man fight from Dark City, without all the Strangers flying around in the background... that is to say, it would have been two people standing there staring at each other with some weird squiggly effects in the middle. Diplomacy was pretty much out of the question at this point.

And I think you're confusing the Jedi for Buddist Monks. The Jedi were not pacifists, they just believed that martial prowess was to be called upon as a last resort, not neccassarily ruled out entirely.


As for the Sith getting right down to business in a lightsaber fight... ask Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar how they feel about Sidious dilly-dallying around.

(Congrats, by the way... we've pretty much completely hijacked the thread at this point... remake the OT indeed!)
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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Originally posted by: Je
I think he should make them over. I love the originals but they just look to out of date. Especially IV ANH man it just looks to low budget but its still a good movie. If he does do them over he can really make them how he intended to. He can also add to the story or change little things. I don't think anyone would disagree with a lightsaber battle between the empire and vader at the end of VI ROTJ instead of him just throwing the emp down the drain like he wasn't nothing. I would pay to see that.


It's what he's been doing slowly for the past ten years. I'm sure they'll look much more different 15 years from now. Great work George, on your Star Wars film collage. It's so avant-garde.

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Originally posted by: Rebel Rouser

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. If Yoda didn't do anything physical at all to win the battle... how would he have won? Palps needed to be stopped. Without lightsabers or the occasional stray Senate hover-thingy, how would he have accomplished this? Harsh language?

Basically, yes. Even language would have been overkill to a being who has spent nearly a millennium learning to operate on a metaphysical level. He should've just sat down in a safe location and effected a series of telepathic attacks against Palpatine, or persuaded some of Palpatine's advisors to kill him. (That would've made good use of the silent weirdos always hanging around the chancellor.)

The idea or masters stepping out of direct combat isn't new to the EU -- Zahn introduced the idea that Palpatine's will affected the performance of those around him, and TotJ had battle meditation that included subtle pushes to willpower and hallucinations. In Dark Empire, Luke and Leia used the Light Side of the Force to overwhelm Palpatine's control and let his own powers destroy him, and Empatajayos Brand essentially kidnapped his soul. Apparent size changes and surreal re-ordering of reality are both hallmarks of master magic users in Lord of the Rings and Japanese media like anime and video games. They'd have been well accepted by the kiddies who like the PT.

Remember that the Force isn't just a power source to be used for telekinesis and martial arts. It is the very underpinning of the universe. Remember that Luke, Yoda, and Palpatine are able to see possible futures and events many light years away -- the Force transcends time and space. Remember that the Force can be used to override the will and alter the conscious thoughts of others -- it is innately tied to that deepest mystery, sentient consciousness. What is the point of being a master of the Force if all you can figure out how to do with it is sword-fight and throw things? I can sword fight and throw things; not at Yoda's level, of course, but it means that a Jedi is merely better than I am, not different.

Of course, there's that whole "shroud of the Dark Side" thing that Lucas wrote into one or two scenes in order to excuse any fault on the part of the Jedi. "Obi-wan is wearing sneakers and calls Anakin 'Hayden' in this scene? Uh, shroud of the Dark Side, their ability to use the Force is diminished."

Without some sort of physical confrontation going on there, we would have been left with the main boss-man fight from Dark City, without all the Strangers flying around in the background... that is to say, it would have been two people standing there staring at each other with some weird squiggly effects in the middle. Diplomacy was pretty much out of the question at this point.

Or better yet, the telepathic fight from Babylon 5. Two people standing in a room and no weird squiggly effects, except maybe in extremely brief, almost subliminal, cuts.

And I think you're confusing the Jedi for Buddist Monks. The Jedi were not pacifists, they just believed that martial prowess was to be called upon as a last resort, not neccassarily ruled out entirely.


The Jedi didn't use violence as a last resort. It was, in fact, their favored option. I think I've made a number of posts implicitly comparing the Jedi to Islamic extremists. If you'd like, I can start a thread on it.

As for the Sith getting right down to business in a lightsaber fight... ask Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and Agen Kolar how they feel about Sidious dilly-dallying around.


I'm not sure who they are. Were they the master Jedi that Palpatine cut down in his office? Let's see ...

Palpatine must have known the Jedi are coming to assassinate him, yet he stayed in place.

In fact, I believe he was sitting at a desk, with very little room to maneuver.

He didn't instruct any of his guards to protect him.

He didn't prepare any booby traps.

He talked instead of fighting, letting his opponents maintain the initiative until his very foolish choice to engage in melee combat against superior foes -- even though he has a built-in ranged weapon.

These are not the actions of a man who is seriously out to preserve his life and defeat his enemies. These are the actions of a man who wants to fight. Perhaps he took all these foolish chances because he had foreseen that he would win the fight? That's what real masters of the Force do -- they use their noncombat powers to give themselves advantages and to win before the fight even starts.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Hmmm...

...once again I must quote: "That's an interesting point..."
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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Originally posted by: Je
I think he should make them over.


He pretty much fucking did already dude.

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You can't call the bullshit SE editions a make over. III is much better than IV went IV should be better than III. Listen up, leave the story of IV the same just change little thing like obi not recognizing the droids, him telling luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber, and the WEAK ASS battle of vader & obi. V story really doesn't need to be changed just maybe little parts like luke getting tongued by his sister and the vader fight. How did luke even put up a fight in V with vader and he just learned about the force. In II anakin learned the force for 10 years and didn't even put up a fight with the count. In III anakin took on all of these jedi in the temple and won (one scene they show him fighting three at one time). So how in the hell did weak as luke even get a hit off. It kind of made vader look weak. VI story is good but the part I have a problem is obi saying he found anakin and took it upon HIMself to train anakin. That part really needs to change because it makes obi look like a liar. Its so much they can do to make IV,V and VI better by making them over instead of fucking with the originals but I would rather them fuck with the originals if they don't make them over. (to many errors in IV,V and VI)
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Originally posted by: Je
You can't call the bullshit SE editions a make over. III is much better than IV went IV should be better than III. Listen up, leave the story of IV the same just change little thing like obi not recognizing the droids, him telling luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber, and the WEAK ASS battle of vader & obi. V story really doesn't need to be changed just maybe little parts like luke getting tongued by his sister and the vader fight. How did luke even put up a fight in V with vader and he just learned about the force. In II anakin learned the force for 10 years and didn't even put up a fight with the count. In III anakin took on all of these jedi in the temple and won (one scene they show him fighting three at one time). So how in the hell did weak as luke even get a hit off. It kind of made vader look weak. VI story is good but the part I have a problem is obi saying he found anakin and took it upon HIMself to train anakin. That part really needs to change because it makes obi look like a liar. Its so much they can do to make IV,V and VI better by making them over instead of fucking with the originals but I would rather them fuck with the originals if they don't make them over. (to many errors in IV,V and VI)


-Obi-Wan doesn't "remember" the Droids because he is covering up. Obi-Wan's words say one thing, but his face says another.
-Obi-Wan told Luke that his Father wanted him to have his lightsaber because it was less painful than the truth, and a convenient plot device to get Luke a lightsaber.
-What do you want? Obi-Wan doing backflips when he's like, 80 years old? The Jedi/Sith are aging and less powerful than they were during I-III. No leap of faith there.
-Luke never got tongued by Leia you over-exaggerator you - it was a kiss on the mouth, but moreso to make Han jealous. Mission accomplished.
-Luke beat Vader in V because he gave in to his anger for a brief moment, and then retracted his feelings when he saw that he was becoming just like his Father. If you want visual proof look at the cut - close up of Vader's severed hand, close up of Luke's. Pretty compelling, no?
-Obi-Wan isn't a liar to claim that he tried to train Anakin. He promised Qui-Gon he would continue Ani's training and he did. Just because it wasn't shown in any of the films doesn't mean it didn't happen. The dialogue and forced chemistry between Obi-Wan and Anakin is supposed to convey the Master-Student/Friend relationship.
-What you call errors, I call depth.
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There are very few errors in the OT. I don't see any reason why Obi-Wan would lie about the damned droids. The mistakes are in the prequels. The most annoying mistake being why the droids would be in those movies in the first place! Just completely out of place, even more so than Chewbacca, because at least he only has a minor cameo and since the two characters never come into contact in the OT, it doesn't really create a plot hole like with the droids. It's just irritating.

It's the inherent trap of prequels to get them to match up with the existing story. And in a lot of ways, George failed, giving into the temptation of more flash and contrived connections that only allow for classic characters to make cameo appearances (and if George was really convinced we should watch them I-VI, those cameos wouldn't "need" to be there because we'd have no idea who those people are), rather than building connections that tie the stories together.

It's funny how, before 1999, no one complained about all these so-called errors in the original trilogy. That's because they didn't and still don't exist. Just because the prequels screwed everything up, it does't meant that the original trilogy has to suffer for it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Hey, I think we can all play nice here, no?

Anyway, I've been thinking about this since I saw the thread, and a complete remake of the original trilogy might be cool, especially if it means that the original, Orignal Trilogy gets its proper due.

If Lucas really wanted to make his "original vision" a reality, he could take the story all the way back to some of the rough draft stuff he had before the original Star Wars script was finalized.

I think it might be cool to see. And if it makes more sense of the prequels that way, then cool.

I just have a hard time believing that the changes Lucas made in the SEs really, truly makes the movies all that he originally envisioned. For example, all the alien creatures that he wanted as main characters instead of the mostly human cast.
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I agree with you darkhelmet. The originals are what they are ORIGINALS! Now its time for a remake. Its like this, what would you rather watch 1930's King Kong or 2005 King Kong? The originals are classics so leave them alone.
Movies are new and improved. So why not remake IV,V and VI. Thats all I'm saying. Most of the movies these days are remakes anyway. Many of them turn out to be better than the originals (batman is a great example even though I think no one can ever replace Jack as joker). CASE CLOSED!
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CASE VERY FAR FROM CLOSED!

Remaking Star Wars is just about as dumb an idea as remaking 'Psycho' shot for shot.
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I agree whole heartedly that Lucas should remake episodes IV, V & VI. If you think about it he would do us a favor as he wouldn't have to keep butchering the OT to fit his prequels anymore.
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Thanks eros! Somebody finally seeing the light.
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I don't think there's a light but rather an alternative point of view...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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LOL....trust me, JE - having eros agree with you is NOT a good sign.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>