Shot List Spreadsheet - v0.6.05 - 6 films - Multiple SW Audio Mix Changes Added Recently — Page 2

Thanks didn't know about your past work.  (maybe I saw it way back when, but had completely forgotten about it)  The data moves over fairly easily: test v6:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdEk4U29vZ1pPaFVYN2xlREl0amhCTFE

problems encountered are you have some extra pieces.  'blank' sections between the opening logos for instance.  I'll probably add that to this.  and i've got deleted scenes and the variations to attend to when porting the data over. 

Why did you use End Time?

Thinking i'll split End Time into two columns as google docs is misinterpreting them initially.  First column for the time info (0:00), second for the frame decimal. (.665)  Right now having all the movies in one file, the limit for a google spreadsheet is about to be reached, unfortuantely.

For your purposed -1 there should be enough columns which allow you to sort to get rid of the data you don't want.  For instance, getting rid of the unused script scenes should be accomplishable with a quick sort.

Thanks for the work and bringing it back up.  Thanks Moth3r for the reference.

DVD-BOY wrote: Do we know at what points the reel changes occur?

Yes, Mallwalker figured them out earlier (see his reel thread), using math and analysis of the orchestra segments, but we are also confirming the locations by finding pics of them: http://fd.noneinc.com/Reel_Changes/Reel_Changes.html

So with each scene, you restart the numbering of shots, how does the sub-shot lettering work?  I get 97A, But AA ZB etc I don't follow.

The Shot/Sub/Scene values were my initial idea for connecting the shot list with other production information like storyboards.  The values were lifted from a production script. (it's listed at the top of the spreadsheet)  So for SW used: http://starwarz.com/starkiller/2010/03/star-wars-the-adventures-of-luke-starkiller-revised-fourth-draft/

But with any of these scripts there are issues which affect the numbers and until more time is spent documenting pre-production artwork this is all a little nebulous.

As we migrate towards a wiki presentation, the columns on the far right are probably a better place to start.  They are just a sequential counting of the scenes.  There will be some flux, once the existing spreadsheet is incorporated with the GOUT frame data provided by negative1.  One spot where we differed was early on negative1 broke out the pauses between Fox Logo and Lucasfilm Logo.  I hadn't but will revise to his methodology, these should be very few.

If you look at the other movies you'll see I gave up mostly on the Shot/Sub/Scene data.  If there was a definitive number in the script then it's in the spreadsheet, but otherwise didn't go much further with those columns.  The 97A is completely my made up designation.

For those into the Shot/Sub/Scene info from the scripts, it does inform you of how they juggled scenes during production. 

Hopefully there's some easy spreadsheet to wiki conversion, haven't looked for it yet, but will eventually if no one else finds anything.

 Amazing work being done here.  Thanks for doing what you're doing.

:)

DVD-BOY wrote: I currently have ROTJ Project Blu v1 and 2011 BD ripped to my machine as Cineform AVIs so I'm wondering if it is worth incorporating frame numbers from both GOUT and Later releases.

For me the GOUT numbers are a temporarily standard until we become more familiar with an actual 35mm print.  There is a thread about the GOUT's missing frames: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/topic/6725/  which for me reinforces the GOUT's temporary standard claim.

But yes all releases would one day get identified.  The spreadsheet format makes this much easier as it's just about identifying where frames are missing and when a new scene was added.  With a simple column of -1 here and +269 there, we can then automate the subtitle recreation between releases and help convert audio variations.

Ask your formatting ideas in the wiki thread.  There's no best, with wiki's people can create their own navigation, if someone doesn't like the Reel approach they can make their own Sequence, for whatever page to get to the specific data.  If an overall page is maintained people can chop it up as they see fit.  Don't know if a wiki can cross resource like a database can.

As for your AVIs, no one's looked much at RotJ, so whatever you accomplish is great.  Maybe take a block and see how long it takes you to do task-x or task-y just so you can speculate how long it'll take you.  With these spreadsheets it took some time, you go thru parts where you're into it then you think it's a waste of time and process greatly slows.

I've been looking into automation of some of these tasks.  Found a plug-in for After Effects called 'Magnum - The Edit Detector': http://aescripts.com/magnum-the-edit-detector/ which can take a copy of the film and cut it up where ever it finds what it believes is an edit.  Was able to process a quarter of TPM in about a day.  It missed a few in the beginning but otherwise worked great, and there are ways to improve it's selection field to get better results.  What I was hoping to do then was to either open up the AE file and see if the frame data could be pulled out that way or auto export each clip, then figure out a way to get the frame totals, dump that into excel and let it do the math.  Was doing this to help me with the DIF TPM as that one requires each scene to be scaled, but the process can help the frame calculations. 

negative1, (if you happen to read this) what was your process for the acquiring of frame counts?

Have begun playing around with -1's GOUT shot data.  The idea is to incorporate at the minimum the number of frames per shot.  With that data anyone can extrapolate just about everything else.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdHlSeExLUExQUGJ2YkdhY2JEWGV1TXc

Row 'T' are the magic numbers at this point.  Am in the process of verifying them thru random spot checks.  Will most likely use the method -1 did, but was initially trying programs i'm used to and am getting slightly different results.  For example, dropping the NTSC GOUT vob into Quicktime, i'm getting a -15 frame difference early on, but the numbers layout accordingly, until I get to one of the points where additional verification is needed.  I noticed that often when i'd shift back and forth between frames sometimes the count wouldn't change.  So am leery of Quicktime going forward, even though it's one of the few applications which can display frame data, which i've worked with.  [the other known issues are three sections are returning negative shot lengths, and there is an issue with the frame counts at vob change points, some may have an additional frame to be added]

Another goal of this process is automatic subtitle recalculation, which requires being able to get the h:mm:ss.fff where the frames are often displayed as a fraction of 1.  negative1's list had this data, but was attempting to recalculate it, but am slightly off.  There are columns for 23.976, 24, 25, 29.976 fps values, want to see if they match video programs returns.  Another problem with macs is they don't play well with FPS, most truncate 23.976 to 23.97 and some to just 24, but who knows what's being calculated internally.  (AfterEffects is a pain sometimes because of this rounding shit)

Once one version of the movie is verified, then can begin the process of other versions.  Which can then be consendced to just the values of where things change.

If you are curious what CatBus' Project Threepio looks like in a spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdHBwMXRkbU9ORzY1UWZPY0w0UTVpd0E  Similar idea, could all the languages use one set of times, so that it's easier to calc SEs and version variations?

I've used -1 GOUT data and double checked and nailed them down.  Then extrapolated that into several SE versions.  And have a project almost done which proves the data is valid and helps show the possibilities of working with database values.  I'm having an issues with the DVD authoring so hopefully early next year it'll get released.

The idea of a standard only goes so far.  But once you have one set of values nailed down, it's fairly easy to figure out other versions.  Which then makes a standard irrelevant as you have all variations values figured out.  But i'd love for this grand variation chart to begin with the values from an actual print.

I'm unfamiliar with ReJig and DGIndex, what are you proposing they accomplish?  and how do they go about it?

Let me know what you find, or areas where you think it maybe be better if the values are considered differently. 

I've referenced a project which uses this spreadsheet to create something.  The project is called AARRSSTW - WTSSRRAA and it resorts the Star Wars 1997 Special Edition by shot length.  FAQ: http://www.noneinc.com/AARRSSTW-WTSSRRAA/AARRSSTW-WTSSRRAA.html  OT.com thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/AARRSSTW-WTSSRRAA/topic/15036/  The project contains how to files which can help others begin to experiment with spreadsheet fan editing.

Have been updating random Shot List Changes items here and there over the years. [Predominately visual as it went along with the DIF projects results.]

This year started a review of the audio changes.
First up was SW 1977 Stereo Mix vs SW 1977 Mono Mix:

Shot List : ver.0.6.02
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GflIoIo11AeOUxAn4UvO3GjWtb5MHW3wcmymOSaAo9c/edit?usp=sharing
Shift to the ‘Star Wars’ tab. (see bottom) and review Columns ‘L’ and ‘AC’. (Change type and description respectively)

The review was done in a two step process.
Pass 1: Listened to small bites (a specific shot or dialog fragment); going back and forth between tracks.
Pass 2: Waveform watch to spot retimed changes easier.

Here’s a page of Pass 2’s process showing examples of the items found.
http://fd.noneinc.com/audio/SL-SW-SvsM/SL-SW-SvsM-Examples.html
Pics are labeled by shot, but you can see the timecode at the top if you want to listen along.

Reviewed audio change lists from this forum and other online sources and documented/verified them.
Will probably jump to SW 1977 Stereo vs SW 1997 SE Stereo, next.

Wondering if it is worth creating a video using Pass 2’s presentation, but display a larger group of audios to fit into a 4k or 2k sized window. Then layer in those audio variations as tracks with small windows of the actual videos for reference. (basically 4k77’s audio listing) I guess one would be 1977 thru 1993 and a separate one for the SEs. Can achieve it by screen capping Audacity or some other player’s waveform display. Then compositing in After Effects. Will need to do a test or two.