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Seamless branching O-OT and SE disc
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Thus, if they were to clean up all of the matting for the sake of cleaner picture and fewer branches, I think that would be acceptable to most, but I'm only guessing ... I'd rather see some discussion from others. I figure some would always disagree, but they're probably a very, very small minority.
Color timing will be subjective and different with every different transfer, so that will always be met with some criticism. It was just so abhorrent in the 2004 DVD that it begs to be fixed. The Definitive Collection was such a painstaking restoration that they really got just about everything right that could be gotten right. The DVD was a piss-poor cash grab and time has shown it.
I sincerely hope that the Blu-Ray release will include everything but the kitchen sink. Seamless branching between O-OT, the 1997 SE, the 2004 SE, and the much rumored 2007 UE. And historical audio tracks for the original mono, stereo options, updated mixes through the years (simply lifting them from their LD masters would be a no-brainer to accomplish), and one juggernaut commentary where you get the surviving cast members to sit down and view the film together and get their banter, like a Kevin Smith commentary track.
This would not be THAT difficult for Van Ling to pull off. He's the master of seamless branching, has been since the introduction of the DVD format. Blu-Ray will take it to the next level. One disc to rule them all. ;-)
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
IMO, the OOT is a question of content. Forget Jabba and Biggs and Greedo shooting first, changing actual FX composition constitues changes. Whether or not its an updated CG shot in Yavin or re-rotoscoping lightsabers, those are material changes to the content. But cleaning up matting artifacts to me does NOT constitute a change to content.
Thus, if they were to clean up all of the matting for the sake of cleaner picture and fewer branches, I think that would be acceptable to most [...] I feel exactly the same way about that. Keep the original content, but for heavens sake - do a good job of removing any garbage matte and emperor brain slugs and anything else along those lines (and please paint the light sabers and the laser shots correctly).
I sincerely hope that the Blu-Ray release will include everything but the kitchen sink. Seamless branching between O-OT, the 1997 SE, the 2004 SE, and the much rumored 2007 UE. And historical audio tracks for the original mono, stereo options, updated mixes through the years (simply lifting them from their LD masters would be a no-brainer to accomplish), and one juggernaut commentary where you get the surviving cast members to sit down and view the film together and get their banter, like a Kevin Smith commentary track.
This would not be THAT difficult for Van Ling to pull off. He's the master of seamless branching, has been since the introduction of the DVD format. Blu-Ray will take it to the next level. One disc to rule them all. ;-)
That would be too good to be true. The archival editions are our last hope - may the force be with us. IMO, the OOT is a question of content. Forget Jabba and Biggs and Greedo shooting first, changing actual FX composition constitues changes. Whether or not its an updated CG shot in Yavin or re-rotoscoping lightsabers, those are material changes to the content. But cleaning up matting artifacts to me does NOT constitute a change to content.
Thus, if they were to clean up all of the matting for the sake of cleaner picture and fewer branches, I think that would be acceptable to most [...] I feel exactly the same way about that. Keep the original content, but for heavens sake - do a good job of removing any garbage matte and emperor brain slugs and anything else along those lines (and please paint the light sabers and the laser shots correctly).
Color timing will be subjective and different with every different transfer, so that will always be met with some criticism. It was just so abhorrent in the 2004 DVD that it begs to be fixed. The Definitive Collection was such a painstaking restoration that they really got just about everything right that could be gotten right. The DVD was a piss-poor cash grab and time has shown it.
Well, what bothers me most is inconsistency in color timing. The 2004 set (especially ANH) has a different timing for almost every shot - the rest is (as you mentioned) merely a question of personal preferrence.I sincerely hope that the Blu-Ray release will include everything but the kitchen sink. Seamless branching between O-OT, the 1997 SE, the 2004 SE, and the much rumored 2007 UE. And historical audio tracks for the original mono, stereo options, updated mixes through the years (simply lifting them from their LD masters would be a no-brainer to accomplish), and one juggernaut commentary where you get the surviving cast members to sit down and view the film together and get their banter, like a Kevin Smith commentary track.
This would not be THAT difficult for Van Ling to pull off. He's the master of seamless branching, has been since the introduction of the DVD format. Blu-Ray will take it to the next level. One disc to rule them all. ;-)
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
The real question is: What exactly is the OOT? Everyone seems to have their own opinion about what it consists of exactly. I mean, there were several OO sound tracks that Ben Burtt mixed, and people have their own ideas on exact color correction/picture quality, grain level, matte lines, etc.
i personally dont care what soundtrack they use and i could even forgive them the way they currently look on dvd if he would just get rid of all the special edition crap, or at least take out all the goofy looking or supposed funny SE scenes. but that might be too complicated for them so just to be safe all the SE stuff should goThe real question is: What exactly is the OOT? Everyone seems to have their own opinion about what it consists of exactly. I mean, there were several OO sound tracks that Ben Burtt mixed, and people have their own ideas on exact color correction/picture quality, grain level, matte lines, etc.
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Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.
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What I'm curious about is, where is the line of tolerance for what cleanups would be acceptable to the O-OT portion of the disc? If removing garbage mattes meant otherwise getting the O-OT on disc, would that be acceptable? I assume it would to all but, say, 0.001% of the population, but who knows? It would certainly make the notion of seamless branching possible.
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1. Jabba in ANH (New Scene)
2. Greedo Shooting First in ANH (changed scene)
3. Take out extended scene of Luke/Kenobi entering Mos Eisley
4. New Wampa Monster in ESB after it get his hand chopped off
5. Vader going to his shuttle on cloud city, and then entering star destroyer
6. Old Emperor in ESB hologram talking to Vader
7. New Song in Jabbas Palace
8. Old Ending and Song in ROTJ, and bring back Sebastian Shaw.
Take these scenes out, and keep the SE effects in, and you zero complaints from me.
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Mat boxes remind you that this was done with blue screen. Crappy lightsaber colors and effects remind you that the characters are just using props. Grain, hair, and watermarks break your willing suspension of disbelief when watching the film. Clean those up, and no one would demand "Hey! I want my dirt fleck flaws back in my movie!"
Changing the storyline is unexceptable. Esspecially in scenes that didn't need any change. Han shot first, dammit.
Clean up the film, make the saber's more professional looking, and fucking keep Jabba out of A New Hope.
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Ah the complexities of post-1997.......
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What we got was Lucas's scratch pad for the prequels. Spastic stormtroopers scouring the sands, a cartoon Jabba that's just a rough draft for Jar-Jar "I stepped in shit" Binks, and Greedo getting off a shot at Han (yes, we booed in the theater too) along with a ton of other random and utterly pointless alterations.
Steve
PS. Actually ADM, the more I think about it the angrier I get. I've finally had a chance (just this week!) to sit down and watch your Episode III and I feel more betrayed by Lucas than I have since the release of Episode II. (Great edit btw, it was awesome to see the Mon Mothma scenes in the flick. Not too keen on Qui-Gonn's speech to Yoda though).
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
But on steroids, 'cause, let's face it, Star Wars deserves a BETTER DVD treatment than Alien or T2, and a Blu-Ray will offer tons more room for audio options, even with the hi-def Video encoding.
But on steroids, 'cause, let's face it, Star Wars deserves a BETTER DVD treatment than Alien or T2, and a Blu-Ray will offer tons more room for audio options, even with the hi-def Video encoding.
Sorry but i find that the Alien quadrilogy set (who came with that stupid name? the right word is tetralogy) and T2 ultimate are far better than the official SW dvds, i remember the time when lucasfilm answered why it took so long to make those dvds, stuff like:"we need time to get all the material possible", "george is waiting to see all the possibilities the format can offer..." "it will be the most complete dvds, a real cinema lesson..." blablabla..... at the end we had butchered movies, color mistakes, bad sound, no deleted scenes, borring audio com (has i heard), a making of/lucas propaganda, etc...
The Alien set is really a lesson of cinema, you have all the developement of the movies, wonderful copies, both versions of the movie (theatrical and director's cut), deleted scenes, outtakes, alternative soundtracks, designs galleries, trailers, tv spots, and great audio com (Ridley Scott is great at this!) and you even have the old bonuses from the LD editions!
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<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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ADigitalMan, I also hope for a 'SW' Blu-Ray release as you described (am not holding my breath though)
This 'SW' Blu-Ray update that it is coming ....
Bill Hunt (thedigitalbits.com) covered the latest Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD developments at the recent Consumer Electronics Show, he had the opportunity to chat with Andy Parsons, senior vice president of Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc., about his company's Blu-ray Disc plans in the year ahead:
BH: It's certainly been a surprise to me, people still seem willing to buy those same movie titles again in a new format.
AP: Especially if there's a perceived value to them. You know, certain titles seem to have that attached value. If and when Star Wars ever comes out in high-definition... (laughs) I don't think I even need to finish that sentence.
BH: Well, I've heard it straight from Lucasfilm reps that it IS coming eventually. And given that Fox is exclusively backing Blu-ray Disc
AP: Right. We'll see. (smiles)
- Leia to Tarkin