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Se7en CCE Version (Help Needed)

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I was talking on another forum about Se7en and the CCE prints that Fincher has tried to replicate digitally.

We know the LD from Criterion was struck from a CCE print, and nothing else to this date has been.

I do all my colour correction by hand and have no idea how scripts work (yes I make life hard for myself)

But if we got someone here to get a great rip of the LD could we colour like one of the older HD masters to get close to the LD?

And them maybe correct after using that as a base?

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I have this .....

DF004: Se7en: The Criterion Collection

                Uploaded by Metallaxis   

 Re-Up by bilditup1

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//DVD Information//  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type.................: Movie

Platform.............: VIDEO_TS folder

Video Format.........: MPEG2-720/704x480-NTSC

Aspect ratio.........: Disc 1: 16x9; Disc 2: 4x3

Audio Format.........: Dolby Digital 2.0 192kbps (Disc 1), Dolby Digital 2.0 256kbps (Disc 2)

Main Movie Runtime...: 127min

Original Format......: NTSC

Size.................: Disc 1: 4.27 GiB; Disc 2: 3.74GiB; Total: 8.02GiB

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

//Feature Film//

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Se7en

The Criterion Collection

Mastered from the Laserdisc

Disc 1: Original film with commentary

Disc 2: Dailies, TV Spots, Original Introduction with Commentary, Make-Up Video Essay with

Commentary, Production Design Video Essay with commentary, over 1000 photographs in a photo gallery, 

original motion picture score (audio only) and an easter egg. 

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

The IT BD looks nice/grainy and could be used as a base for this project. 

Interesting color timing comparison of Se7en here: 

http://notonbluray.com/blog/the-case-of-se7en/

Thanks for sharing this article, very interesting.  Good to know that the flipper DVD is pretty close to the original, I remember seeing this film when it first came out and have watched the flipper DVD many, many times (I still don't even have a higher def version).

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 (Edited)

The Aluminum Falcon said:

The IT BD looks nice/grainy and could be used as a base for this project. 

Interesting color timing comparison of Se7en here: 

http://notonbluray.com/blog/the-case-of-se7en/

 I know if that link, he is not 100% correct in his assumptions but some of the reasoning is correct.

I got the CAN unmatted release last night and it looks clean enough to work with  unless you guys know of a tech reason it will not work

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 (Edited)

Jetrell Fo said:

I have this .....

DF004: Se7en: The Criterion Collection

                Uploaded by Metallaxis   

 Re-Up by bilditup1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

//DVD Information//  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type.................: Movie

Platform.............: VIDEO_TS folder

Video Format.........: MPEG2-720/704x480-NTSC

Aspect ratio.........: Disc 1: 16x9; Disc 2: 4x3

Audio Format.........: Dolby Digital 2.0 192kbps (Disc 1), Dolby Digital 2.0 256kbps (Disc 2)

Main Movie Runtime...: 127min

Original Format......: NTSC

Size.................: Disc 1: 4.27 GiB; Disc 2: 3.74GiB; Total: 8.02GiB

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

//Feature Film//

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Se7en

The Criterion Collection

Mastered from the Laserdisc

Disc 1: Original film with commentary

Disc 2: Dailies, TV Spots, Original Introduction with Commentary, Make-Up Video Essay with

Commentary, Production Design Video Essay with commentary, over 1000 photographs in a photo gallery, 

original motion picture score (audio only) and an easter egg. 

 I got this last night also, its an amazing looking rip.

Would this be good enough to work on a colour like?

plus could a script be made to copy the matting?

He did change the matting on the first platinum DVD and again on the BD so would it be better to copy the theatrical matting?

Not the exact frame I know but:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120333

Also Warner new BD:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120335

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dvdmike said:

I got the CAN unmatted release last night and it looks clean enough to work with  unless you guys know of a tech reason it will not work

 IIRC, the CAN unmatted released looks pretty soft, as Alliance was using a master intended for HDTV (hence 1080i/1:78). Also, I believe it was compressed for a BD-25 with little bitrate room to breathe. As well as the IT, I think the Dutch BD might be better in terms of a raw base from which to work.

Furthermore, it might not be wise overall to use an open matte master, as it would be tedious if you were later try to recrop for 2:35. I don't think the 2:35 matte is a constant dead center. 

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

dvdmike said:

I got the CAN unmatted release last night and it looks clean enough to work with  unless you guys know of a tech reason it will not work

 IIRC, the CAN unmatted released looks pretty soft, as Alliance was using a master intended for HDTV (hence 1080i/1:78). Also, I believe it was compressed for a BD-25 with little bitrate room to breathe. As well as the IT, I think the Dutch BD might be better in terms of a raw base from which to work.

Furthermore, it might not be wise overall to use an open matte master, as it would be tedious if you were later try to recrop for 2:35. I don't think the 2:35 matte is a constant dead center. 

 I get where you're coming from, but the framing has changed from the theatrical twice 

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Thanks dvdmike! Hope you will join us at fanres, too, as you are a valuable members that I'm sure will help our little new community to grow!

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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The framing is the other issue with regrading the BD 

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dvdmike said:

 I get where you're coming from, but the framing has changed from the theatrical twice 

 Are you saying the 2:35 crop of the existing HD masters don't match what was shown in theaters? In that case, I'd understand a desire to go back to an unmatted source.

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

dvdmike said:

 I get where you're coming from, but the framing has changed from the theatrical twice 

 Are you saying the 2:35 crop of the existing HD masters don't match what was shown in theaters? In that case, I'd understand a desire to go back to an unmatted source.

 Yes, I believe it was in the platinum edition extras "video mastering" they show shots being reframed IIRC 

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That's right, it's on the extras, but the remastered US Blu-ray from Warner (same in France from Metropolitan) went back to the "original" framing or at least didn't keep the reframing made on the remastered DVD/Dutch Blu-ray. I compared when I got it and noticed on a few spots it was back to the framing I knew from my first French DVD from Metropolitan.

I actually own the 2 French DVD editions and the French Blu-ray. Also, I had on my hard drive the Dutch Blu-ray and it was the same as the 2nd DVD, the remastered one (Platinum in the US) with that ugly yellow sunset in the end. To me, the remastered Blu-ray offers the best picture : best resolution, "original" framing. It's just the colors that don't match the first DVD I have, and I loved how orange the alley was when they bribed the homeless woman to give a fake testimony.

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The new bluray is nice i agree, but it's far from original 

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Even the framing? I'll make some comparisons with my first DVD.

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Not sure on that, you are the first person saying it has been returned to its original framing 

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I'll check on that and will post some comparisons shots. However my "original" framing would be the French Metropolitan DVD, so maybe they used another master than the one you're used to.

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I would side with the Criterion LD but I would think that dvd would be closer to the original vintage to the bluray or platinum dvd 

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My first DVD is from 1999.

Problem is: how can anyone know which framing is accurate since from a theater to another, from one country edition to another, you see different framings?

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Indeed, but the LD was overseen by Fincher and would be his preferred framing.

The early DVDs may be based onthis.

Can you post a cap and a timing code from the end scenes and I will match it to the LD  

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 (Edited)

Alley cop Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/90470_alley_cop_DVD1.jpg

Alley cop Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/66267_alley_cop_DVD2.jpg

Alley cop Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/40313_alley_cop_BD.jpg

Alley Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/69144_alley_DVD1.jpg

Alley Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/89069_alley_DVD2.jpg

Alley Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/92530_alley_BD.jpg

Bar Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/78481_bar_DVD1.jpg

Bar Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/83311_bar_DVD2.jpg

Bar Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/70206_bar_BD.jpg

Brad Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/53222_Brad_DVD1.jpg

Brad Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/39389_Brad_DVD2.jpg

Brad Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/85140_Brad_BD.jpg

House Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/85591_house_DVD1.jpg

House Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/15729_house_DVD2.jpg

House Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/50894_house_BD.jpg

Spacey Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/48231_John_Doe_DVD1.jpg

Spacey Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/47859_John_Doe_DVD2.jpg

Spacey Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/16939_John_Doe_BD.jpg

Morgan's head off Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/57606_Morgan_head_off.jpg

Morgan's head back in Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/99387_Morgan_head_off_DVD2.jpg

Morgan's head half off Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/49056_Morgan_head_off_BD.jpg

Nap partners Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/89392_nap_DVD1.jpg

Nap partners Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/49698_nap_DVD2.jpg

Nap partners Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/89181_nap_BD.jpg

Morgan on the backseat Metropolitan DVD 1999:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/96139_Morgan_car_DVD1.jpg

Morgan on the backseat Metropolitan DVD 2001:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/13516_Morgan_car_DVD2.jpg

Morgan on the backseat Metropolitan Blu-ray 2010:

http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/38721_Morgan_car_BD.jpg

Okay, so the 2010 Blu-ray does not come back to the "original" 1999 framing but is also different from the 2001 remastered edition (Metropolitan/Newline Platinum/Dutch BD) as you can see with Morgan's head off shot and Morgan on the backseat where you have more picture on the right and less head room on the 2010 Blu-ray. Also noticeable on the cop's cap or on the roof of the house.

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dvdmike said:

Indeed, but the LD was overseen by Fincher and would be his preferred framing.

The early DVDs may be based onthis.

Can you post a cap and a timing code from the end scenes and I will match it to the LD  

 Well, try the "Morgan's head off shot", it's the very first frame of the shot.