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Saga Remake

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    I'm sure I don't have the post count to justify creating my own threads, but here goes...

    For my first thread, I thought I would present to SW fans the most outrageous of concepts. :)

     This thread is for concepts beyond what can be accomplished in a fan-edit, where a remake would be required. The entire SW6 saga, even the OT, is open for reconsideration 8-0. All are welcome to contribute.

    When I first came here, I only meant to make a few suggestions for fanedits. I thought I could drop the suggestions in a unique manner that would cause faneditors to just take the points- without worrying about me. Then, I thought it would be nice to develope some thoughts further and - "In for a penny...."

  

     Why remakes? Three reasons: First, even the most excellent can be improved. Second, the SW6 (including the OT) contain serious flaws. Third, I believe that, if a remake of the OT could be accomplished to at least equal the originals, those new films could belong to the younger generations in the same way that the OOT will forever belong to my generation.    

    In release order, a remake of the SW6:

    What is the OT? I began playing a game in '77 to guess where GL was taking us (and from where he had developed his story.) In '83, the game  turned into a project to try to improve an already maginificent tale. The first thing I did (with the help of some screenwriting primers) was to try to understand exactly what it was I was working with.

    I came to the conclusion that the OT was actually two grand story arcs, intertwined.

     The first grand arc was about the relationship between father and son (F-S). Luke redeems his father and thus completes his hero's journey. Ben and Yoda are logistical. They exist to deliver what is needed to propel Luke to his confrontation. Ben even sacrifices his life ("Escape is not his plan") to ensure that Luke cannot fall to the dark side.  F-S was handled brilliantly. Lucas&Co deserve the highest praise. Let's set F-S aside for awhile. 

    The second arc was the love triangle between Luke, Leia and Han. This is the most perfect love triangle that I know of in cinema. Luke and Leia would give their lives for each other, Han and Leia also. Han and Luke would each sacrifice his life to save the other. Would Rhett or Ashely do that? 

    The triangle grand arc was introduced perfectly in ANH. In the very last image of ANH, we see a perfect representation of the triangle. We see them standing in triangular formation with Leia in her place at the center and raised above the other two. Every thing we see in the OT that isn't specifically there to serve the  F-S arc (Yoda), is there to serve the triangle grand arc. The droids provide an outside POV and Lando helps to make it possible for the grand arcs to find their conclusion. The triangle is not there to fight the empire. The entire empire- all of the SDs and STs and AT-ATs-everything- is there to give the triangle opportunities to interact with each other in very dramatic ways. F-S aside, the sub-arcs for Han, Luke and Leia are there to resolve the place of each with respect to the other two.

     In ESB, the triangle was almost entirely derailed while they are on Hoth. Han and Luke demonstrated that they loved each other like brothers. Sparks were flying furiously between Leia and Han. Hoth is the last opportunity for L&L to interact, before the very end. There is effectively no interaction between Luke and Leia there. They don't say one word to each other. It's true we get the impression, visually, that they care, but that isn't nearly enough to sustain one side of a triangle. If one side collapses, the entire structure falls. Half of the OT fell upon Hoth. It's a testament to the genius of the creators and the power of F-S that ESB could carry through and become exquisite in spite of this. 

    By ROTJ, the loss of half the story becomes noticable. It wasn't just the cutesyness of the ewoks that took some of the sense of gravity and grand purpose from that film. Again, the brilliance of the creators, with their even more powerful presentation of F-S, carried that film to greatness

    It's understandable, no doubt inevitable, that a problem like this emerged, given the production challenges and difficult subject matter.

    I will address that problem. But before that, I will suggest some possible slight improvements to the nearly perfect (for what it is) ANH. :)   

    

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    For ANH...

    I'll suggest things for mood, alusions, dialog and costume and sets in a post for the entire OT.

     These are just offhand, small suggestions.

    -Luke and the hopper--there are opportunities for dropping more exposition about history, prior relationship between Leia and the droids and twins on the ship--3PO auto-memory wipe might be a running gag *grabs head* "Oh! It's happened again."-- STs might have more dialogue, funny but menacing (troopers) throughout film (DS "have you..")-- a living snake dragon, practical? winds down a rail track?---See if sequence of escape pod to the farm can be tightened, (they don't seperate? only threaten to?)---argument about hopper LS/UO no Biggs---impoff drops expo about X-wings being the only hyperdrive fighters and local system defenses---Luke carries light sabre then drops it while falling to his knees (this one's informed by PT)---Mos Eisly is the capitol, Tat only has a few million inhabitants? Jabba rules from the slime planet of Hutta (capitol city a slimey Chicago?)---separate because they might be sensed by Vader on DS, two force weilders can't hide themselves well when together---Vader senses something from Leia---detention block "Would you prefer to crawl back into your cell, highness?" from novel---"Into the chute, flyboys"---More 'JAWS' in garbage compactor, Han "Everybody just calm dowwAAHH!!" everybody yelps as goofy but terrifying and toothy head pops up---New DS like a small, industrial, airless coruscant?(PT), crater is the inactive HS exhaust outlet?? Beams just rise out of surface??? DS is to be Emperor's new ride, like "flagship" ---imps find base on their own, no tracker---Leia begs for a different planet not her own????;/---Vader stunt mask tinted transparent---duel something between ANH and ROTS over chasms---Luke rescues Ben???? injured or not????---Leia calculates tragectory of DS--- "Your reward lies on Yavin. It will last as long as they do."---Luke makes two squadron friends in briefing, one lives---Leia's home world the target??? like GL original???---Ben in sick bay/ coaches Luke through Force?--- Ben is wing leader shot by Vader? lives or doesn't?--- Each squadron has control officer and tech support officer at a holo console. control O seated, she sounds off during roll call, get to know her a little, helps fighters?--- Short hyper jump to DS so all fighters are X-wings--- Ben over one shoulder and 3PO or General of Yavin and Hoth over other shoulder?--- Chewie gets a med- oh wait, nvm :)

     Edit: Might make the jamming of the targeting comps a greater concern during the runs. It keeps throwing off slightly. Luke gets frustrated with it as well as coached by Ben.

   

 

 

 

 

 

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   On to ESB...

    ESB is a magnificent achievement, one of the greatest films ever made. I love it nearly as much as ANH.

    ESB does, IMHO, present three great flaws: 

     First, the derailment of the triangle grand story arc. Second, Luke is presented as weak and needing assistance from the outset, relieved only by the speeder sequence. Third, the space worm gullet that is nearly perfect for human habitation. 

     I wish that 'Das Boot' had been released in '78. I suspect that we would have seen larger and more frightening Minoks, with larger sucker teeth, crawling on the outer hull. "Veeeere ZINNKIIING....!" inside. Han could "Charge the hull" to drive them off but that reveals their location and upsets the cave.

   Dramatically, it might work better if Luke is presented as heroic, admired, succeeding in all, and then he goes to his great fall. To strengthen Luke,  Luke could succeed in his self-assigned mission to find the probe. The Taun-Taun sticks it's head up instead of Chewie. Luke shoots, then reports danger over com. Then-WAMPA!. Could have other rebels go out with Han and barely crawl back into cave. Luke gives fighter pilots the briefing and pep talk before going to lead the speeders. Luke makes it clear that he's drawing fire away from the others (B of Midway). BOTB. Luke gives a pep talk to speeder pilots as they get into X-wings. Luke leads the last fighters in defense of the last transports and peels off as the others jump into hyperspace. Then Luke is reduced to a learner who advances quickly but fails important tests.

     ANH was the first act. It established the characters perfectly. The opening sequences of ESB are there to re-present what has been established- to pick up where we left off. At the end of ANH, Han is a hero, informally attatched. Luke is the greatest hero, the greatest pilot and the greatest leader of the last remnants of the fighters. Leia is 'Princess of the Heavens', a civilian dignitary, and a covert operative who has obviously had small arms and operations training. The trouble with presenting Luke as weaker is that he is not as much a potential rival to Han. The trouble with 'Air Marshall Organa' (aside from being 21 and already having three more-than-full-time jobs and being as though Princess Elizabeth had appeared at Patton's HQ and told him how to deploy his forces;) is that she becomes the ultimate "One of the boys" while stealing thunder from Luke.

     There were three tremendous problems in maintaining the triangle arc. First, I'm sure they didn't want people (especially the kids) to hate Han for stealing Leia. Second, bro-sis. Third, Luke was the center of ANH, they needed to elevate Han and Leia as much as possible.

     ESB needed to end with us believing that there was about an equal possibility that Leia would wind up with either Han or Luke. This must have been GL's original intent (two kisses, she risks her life to save him, together in the end{as the celestial twins}.) I, for one, was about certain that Leia would go with Han (I love you/I know was part of the problem- though I wouldn't trade it for anything.) Leia is the leading lady and center of the triangle. She must be presented as an unobtainable demi-goddess. The center of the universe. The true McGuffin. She is not there to fight the empire. Her only function, throughout the entire OT, is to make Han and Luke as miserable as possible with worry for her and for each other.

    To get the triangle grand arc back on track:

     In the beginning, after probe fall and mounted scout, we could see 3PO and R2 moving through white corridors. Rebels in white uniform and white helmets could be running past them with determination. Are they on their way to battle? We round a corner and see they are rushing to form an honor guard in front of a transport ship. Then Leia steps out wearing a half length, exotic, elegant but spacey coat with high winter riding boots and scarf. Every bit a princess and high dignitary. Suddenly, a huge ,hairy, roaring and whining monster pushes it's way through the guard to reach the princess. It looks like she's going to be ripped apart. She turns and smiles and strokes him until he's quiet (the nordic demi-goddess who can tame the most ferocious wolves.) The CO and XO step forward and PL asks about Luke and Han. She reviews the guard as Han enters. The purpose is to show us PL is definitely not one of the boys, that she is away from them for long periods and she is of much higher status when she is with them (in this conception it is only one year ABY.)

    We next see PL in the CC worried for Luke and telling him to hurry back. While they are both out, She is seen having special concern for Luke. We see them talking in the med center. We see Leia and Luke hugging and speaking together before the battle. We see PL worried as Luke takes off. We see her frightened for Luke during battle.

    PL is like a minister of defense. She is consulted by the CO as a formality, but with all the regal dignity in the galaxy she tells him "Evacuation must be at your discretion, General." She only takes command of the CC because all of the command officers are killed or unavailable. She waits until the sector is cleared and then orders the spiking of the cannon- an enormous explosion that destroys two walkers. "Imperial troops at the north gate!! Imperial troops at thsssss" Leia orders "Sound the general retreat!" It sounds and we see a general collapse of rebel resistance. She is dragged out of the CC while  the staff tells her to go and she tells the guard to take them to their transports. If she needs more action, she could blast a trooper on the way out. Otherwise, Cloud City should be enough.

     The only time Leia is reduced is when she's repairing The Falcon. She must be stripped of her princess attire. She is wearing one of Han's work shirts. By Cloud City, She's back to Princess. They are met by Han's friend, Landa Calrijianne (I keed:). We see PL on a balcony outside of the lounge. She is looking over dark storm clouds and lightnings and deep chasms between the clouds. At the same time, there is thunder and lightning on dagobah with Luke (Luke intercut is PT). She is wearing a beautiful dress that presents her as The Goddess of the Skies. She goes in and discusses their worry for Luke with Han. Luke succeeds in rescuing Leia with his new powers.

     I have other possible slight improvements. Later :)

      

    

    

      

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    To finish with ESB...

     Fate Unknown-------No dialog from scouts- masked, unknown. expo to PL from CO----speeder rolls in celebration-----test of cannon, subtle until fired-----Plan for defense in CC. XO "If the storm continues and the empire comes in light armored speeders...(Yeah, 'Captain Obvious' moment;)" CO "We must hope they have no respect for us."----- CO pep talk, Beautiful day for a fight (LBH).------Forward scout laying with T-T on it's side. CC"We have your position, Scout 4, Report the position of the walkers. S4 looks upward "They're just about standing on me!!" CC" Fall back to the perimeter, Scout 4." S-4 mounts and T-T runs howling.----- Cloud City central upward spire? Leia quarters?-_-Luke removes STs surrounding Leia.Vader almost recaptures Leia. V speaks of disturbance in Force. Luke steps in to cover PL's escape-----LC goes after Han, meets Leia on the way.----Then they give expo during the duel where Luke is injured. That's it.     If I think of anything I missed, I'll post an edit here.    :)

    Edit:   Leia on Falcon, before kiss "Please stop calling me that. The Royal House of Organa takes girls from poor circumstances and raises them for diplomatic service. Gives titles for stature." (or some such) ;/ 

    Edit:   If LC is killed at Cloud City trying to rescue Han, Wedge could take the Falcon.

    Edit:   Keep as much sense of Dunkirk-Trondheim as possible. Attatchment to history and the historical action dramas.

    Edit:  "Never make two women share the same kitchen." -Vacation home developers   ;)

    Edit:   The Falcon might be able to make one jump. It might over or under shoot the destination ('DB'.)

    Edit:   LC was difficult. Blasted over the side of cloud city? Dies on Tat? Killed in star battle? It's a remake proposal, not a re-imagining. I thought I was already taking things far. If LC had a parent or spouse/love interest, there would be someone else to fly the Falcon. LC could die anywhere-even on Endor. Or, the parent could be lost or survive too ;/ :\ I don't know. Trying to stay with what has been established.

    Edit:   In the project conception I thought of Han as being in his mid-twenties. This creates an age disparity with Lando in his late thirties or early fourties (a General in ROTJ). I thought Lando might have an informal position with the rebs (no rank or same as Han) and they could both be the  same age. Or, if early forties, work in a 'ROTLA' ref. I was trying to speed and simplify the Jabba rescue sequence. If Lando was of lower rank we wouldn't see him telling off the Admiral.

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   I agree that it is incredible that GL had Father and Sister worked out before '76.

   I think it is even more incredible that he went into production of ANH without solving the basic relationships to Luke and without resolving the triangle dilemma. :)

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thejediknighthusezni said:

    I'm sure I don't have the post count to justify creating my own threads, but here goes...

Post count doesn't matter, all that matters is the quality of the thread you've created.  I think you're fine.

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   In this conception, Lando is from a nomadic tribe of mercenaries. They fight for systems in exchange for mineral rights. They are French African based, maybe a slightly alien appearance. At the end of WWII, French Africans fought in great numbers. In the PT, They arm old freighters and are very careful to select causes that the Jedi don't oppose and maybe, quieltly, even endorse (present at Naboo.)

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Of course, talking to yourself is not a good sign...

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...I'm communing...with The Force...

 

   I'd like to back up a bit. Cover some more of the backstory (such as there is) before diving into ROTJ.

   There were three periods: The Game- '77 to '83 release. The Project-'83 to '85.  The PT revisions- '97 to present.  The revisions were to integrate what I've learned of the PT with with the game and project notions.

    The only background I developed was for Luke's dad. It became DV's history. I had to make it up almost entirely from my own understanding to orient myself with the story. I'd hoped that it would at least be consistent with GL's style.

   In this backstory, Ani is from a remote world. It is a world entirely of grasslands, steppe. The grasses are so agressive there that they croud out trees and brush. This world is based upon an amalgm of the US midwestern plains and the Ukrainian-Siberian steppes. The inhabitants are, socially, an amalgm of Cossoks, Mongols, Plains Indians, and European American ranchers and homesteaders. They are an agressive, independent and proud people with a strong warrior ethic born from thousands of years of fighting each other and alien invaders. Ani comes from the tribe of The Red Hills and the clan of The Skywalkers.

    Ani was born with Force powers, as are all Force wielders. Obi-wan and Yoda were simply from The Force Brotherhood, "Padme" was from The Force Sisterhood. The Jedi and the Sisterhood used The Force in different ways. The Jedi believed in "Active Defense". The Sisterhood believed in benign influence. The Jedi were scattered in small groups led by a master with the knights he trained and or one or two apprentices he was training (though I like the central temple idea more.) They had standing authorization from the Senate to stop major threats to peace and justice in the galaxy. This became the practice of pouncing on any power that tried to develope hyperdrive warships. After ESB, if they needed help, they could call through the force for other Jedi. I didn't know much more about them before '83.

    After the ROTJ release, I began developing an idea of the fall of the Republic and Ani. Post- ESB, my conception of Ani developed out of pre-ESB Luke's father and not from Vader. It was not consistent with everything in GL's conception, but it was with everything stated in the OT. Ani was a good and noble person who somehow developed a driving fear of disorder and defiance and this led to the break with the Jedi. Also, an explanation for a relatively sudden eradication of the Jedi and establishment of the empire was needed.

     I'd considered TBFB and the metaphor for the mass conscript armies of Europe very briefly in passing. I had a very vague impression that I had seen the STs unmasked. In retrospect, I believe this came from the several times that Luke and Han pulled off their masks and from the STs being surrounded by unmasked technicians and impoffs. Also, I'd formed the notion that cloning implied a certain politico-socio-economic order. It was an order where a few non-clone original elite survived and lorded over an entirely regimented system with specialized clones for technical, combat, and production activities. Second and Third Reich Germany didn't quite fit that idea. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China did. I don't like to abandon my original impressions without a good reason.

    In this conception, there was a loose confederation of systems in a sector of the galaxy. They would squable with each other and band together when attacked from without. They became more and more militaristic. Eventually they formed a strong military based regime to defend against alien incursion. Let's call them 'The Pruufasho'. The Pru were surrounded by powers that were developing clone based regimes while eyeing Pru controlled systems.  The cloning powers, let's call them The Stolinoi, The Jaacofron, and The Mochi, gained strength and built hyperdrive warships and started spreading themselves through the galaxy. It became too much for the Jedi and the Republic (UN/LON) to contain. The strongest non-clone power was the Pru. 

    Next time, on as the galaxy turns... :)

 

    

     

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     ...This might be a good time to review the characters of the backstory ('83).

      Yoda- leader and trainer. He takes Obi and Ani because they are especially powerful and mischievous.

      "Padme"- Some of the same qualities as her daughter. She believes in reactive defense. Maybe goes further in personal circumstances. Ani goes for global reasons (missed guess)   

      In my favorite iteration, Obi, Ani, and "Padme" formed a tight little trio.

      They were all about twenty at the fall of the Republic. Somewhere between 16-22 through the PT. They were those cool kids that everyone else envied and admired in the HS lunchroom. They were good looking, talented, strong, and top students. But even the cool kids have troubles. These problems are small, in the background, undercurrents that pop up occasionally, before the very end. Like the OT trio, these three love each other very dearly (Yeah, I know, just like 'HP'.)

      Obi is reckless and aggressive at times. "Padme" can agree to the mischief of the boys. Ani is the one who tries most to live up to expectations, but he is also given to recklessness and aggressive independent action.

     At the fall of the Republic (ep.III), things have deteriorated greatly. Many systems through the galaxy have been devastated. The Pru have built a huge new battlefleet. Sen. Palpy is working full time to build a coalition to save the galaxy from the clone powers. Palpy is from a world close and closely related to the Pru.

     At this point, the stolonoi invade Ani's homeworld. There is a party on his world that wants to build clones and join the invaders (the world was settled by various peoples thousands of years ago, mostly Pru worlds and those related to the Pru.) They launch a campaign of chaos and catastrophe to reduce and control the world's population. Millions of Ani's people are slaughtered each day and it is only getting worse. To this point, Ani has been trying harder than the other two to live up to the Jedi way in spite of the fact that his world was coming under increasing attack. It goes against everything he was taught to hold dear when he was a child to sit back and do nothing (Afghanistan was the ongoing conflict at this time {as now :(})

     The Jedi are ineffectual. They are devoted to a philosophy that requires a long term view that they can't make enemies of various parties and must have consensus in the Senate. They may be correct, for the long term, but that's no consolation to Ani. It becomes clear that Ani's world will be wiped out if action is not taken immediately. In anguish, Ani goes to the only person who can help him. Sen Palpy has assembled powers led by the Pru that, with the help of some Jedi, could send enough force to Ani's world to stop the horror. Ani goes to Obi and Padme for help, but the two he loves most in the galaxy reject the plan. They insist he must stop. Ani's is not the only world devastated in the clone wars. Many other homeworlds of many other young Jedi have been ravaged or will be ravaged. As many as a third of the Jedi (mostly the younger ones) can no longer tolerate the "navel gazing" of the older masters (reinforced by 'WG' and 'RD'). Sen Palpy has been manipulating all of this.

     Now Palpy has enough power to stop the clones and drive a permanent wedge between the rebel Jedi and faithful masters. He is elected president. He has the senate declare the Pru forces the official army and fleet of the republic.  The clone powers are thrown back, but still a threat. The faithful Jedi turn to stop the rebel Jedi. The jedi, already depleted by the CW, wipe each other out. The Pru and a few reb and faithful jedi are all that's left in the ashes. 

    Ani tries to get Padme and Obi to join him. He's heart broken to be rejected and Padme goes with Obi. Obi tries to stop Ani. They fight over the lava pit. Ani is burned and loses limbs, but not as terrrible as ROTS. Padme was killed by forces working secretly for Palpy in a way that makes the faithful Jedi responsible, after the twins were born. Ani is left hating Obi and the Jedi "posing" and anything that would encourage division and devastation in the galaxy. 

    

    

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    I think I'll do ROTJ. What I can remember offhand, anyway.

    There are some revisions in light of the PT and what I've seen from members here, but I'm going to stick with the project version.

    ROTJ is a great movie. I enjoyed it very much, the first two viewings. It just seemed out of place next to ANH and ESB. A shift in tone and mood.

   A list of changes. I might have to come back with edits.

    Open with Bothan spy ship.  "We are a cosmographic research vessel, charting--" "Stop your engines at once! Or be destroyed!"---consider making spyship mostly no dialog ---Rescue sequence on the slime planet of Hutta---More of an enormous speakeasy nightclub atmosphere in palace. Grand cantina sort of feel---Palace more grand---Tighten the whole rescue sequence. Before the PT already presented the concept, I thought just one action sequence might be enough. A more grand Rancor sort of thing. In a large arena type courtyard in the dark gloom, lit from above. hundreds or thousands of spectators. Skiffs are above the court and all heroes, Including Leia, going to be tossed in. Toothy worm slug snakes and a couple of bipedal monsters. Luke goes wild MP:THG rabbit on them.---No kisses or I love you's before the end. It's obvious Leia cares a great deal. she's risking her life. Still don't know who she's going to "marry" until the end.----Maybe have a couple of MC type hovering sail driven ships in ANH.--- Jabba's ride could be a gigantic slug worm snake with a series of self leveling platforms on it's back.---Hutta is a world without trees or brush. Used to be shallow ocean. Slime grew deeper and deeper. (I lived near a lake that had algea covering surface of areas)---- If there is a swing, Leia kisses Luke. Leia shows special concern for Luke. When leaving the world, Leia expresses a loving concern for Luke over coms.----Just Yoda talking about need to face Vader. No Ben----Sister thing fell very suddenly at the end of the first act. Luke doesn't find out until the end.----More solemn B of Yavin mood in fleet briefing.----Briefing is larger, formal and takes place in a grand hall. Banners of the Republic and of loyal systems--- Guard announces the entrance of the President of the Executive council of the Senate in exile- Her honor Senator Mon Mothma. Leia enters with the entourage of dignitaries in a beautiful 'Princess of the heavens" dress.---Leia is next to SenMM seperate from Han. ---Teases him before briefing that she's glad the merchant pilots guild is represented. Han acts like he doesn't care ----Surprised to see "Commander Solo (Han is in his mid-twenties)"---After briefing she tells them she's going with them over Han and Luke's objections---Signs of jealousy between Han and Luke.----    Sorry finish soon

     Edit: It might not be necessary to have the Falcon and the fighter land far from the palace. If Leia is going in disguised, she could land on a platform outside the main gate. If Luke is bluffing his way through, he likewise could land next to the Falcon.

     A chase through the corridors after the attempted execution? They could run to their ships under fire.

    I like the idea that I read here of Leia recklessly going in before Luke is ready. Adds urgency and desperation to the bluff.

    Edit: If Luke lost his light sabre in the palace, through most of the fight he could be swinging and kicking and taking whatever comes to hand. He finds the goon who has his sabre towards the end. ANH through the DS sort of feel.

    Mon Mothma: I gave her some techy dialog for the purpose of elevating her. It was to show that she really knew her stuff. I tried to make her as strong as possible without stealing thunder from Leia. I have tried hard to avoid that. Likewise with the consolation prize.

     Edit: I toyed with the idea of Han&co going in on the Falcon. It could spin towards the surface and release an explosive at the last moment to simulate crashing at orbital velocity-Vader is the only one not fooled. Alternatively, The Falcon could be shot up and crash land, wrecked, to raise the sense of peril to the group ;/

 

 

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Please don't be discouraged by lack of responses. One, this section often doesn't get much traffic; two, most of us have tl;dr syndrome. For example, I haven't read this yet but eventually I'll get to it - you must have put in quite a bit of work for there to be so much behind it.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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    ^Thanks

    Here's a post you can skip bkev. I'm just going to explain why I'm doing this.

    I lost confidence in my ability to estimate what faneditors can and can't do.  I don't expect anything from these suggestions. I don't put them out to be used, I put them out to be improved. I've seen what can be done by the folks here. Maybe one or two things I toss out could be expanded and improved upon or taken in another direction.  

    I went back to the crude project to highlight how much could be done to improve anything that a faneditor could use. It's for the use of anyone who wants to put effort into it for any purpose. Not my business. I only want the satisfaction of seeing these films bettered.

    This forum has so little activity that I don't feel too bad about the long posts. On other forums, I felt sorry for posting short clips, seeing they might be misunderstood, and leaving them go. Or clipped responses to show I understand the concept-slave to habit. If I feel I can just type on, I might avoid (some) of that. 

    It's also interesting to see how deep the OT.com rabbit hole goes. Curiosity.

     I'm sorry my backstory is so limited. They were just guesses for the game and notions to orient me.

      Obi and Yoda's motivations were clear. The mother didn't play a real part in the OT. I only needed an idea of Vader/Ani's motivation. I had the impression that the Jedi must be extremely difficult to kill. There were only a handful in a galaxy of hundreds of billions or trillions. I also had the impression, first viewing, that Vader couldn't have been the only one to turn.

     Anyway, I'll continue this blathering soon. :) 

    

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    I need to back up to deal with the ROTJ ending.

    The storylines didn't reach climax at the same time. I was very concerned with finding a possible solution.

    It's important to show that Leia is quite willing to sacrifice her life and why. 

    I thought that in ESB, as the Falcon charges the SD, Leia would say "Yes, we must not be taken-we know too much...Han, I want you to know-" Han "NOT NOW!" 

    In ANH, after sending R2 on his way, she might try to sabotage the reactor to destroy the SD and keep them from falling to the empire ;/  (this one is'HFRO'). It's mentioned between Vader and Leia. Maybe, the interogation droid injects one of those chemicals that causes agony? ;/ (I've read about those experimental drugs +24) Was she aware in advance that rebel captives would be subjected to that?;/ 

    

    At the climax,after chasing them into a clearing, she pulls out a thermo detenator. Han understands that they must not be taken and used against the Alliance. As the STs are prodded forward by the impoffs to take them alive or die trying (the emperor wants them to turn Luke) Han looks into her eyes and says "I love you" Leia "I know" They kiss one last desperate passionate expression of life.   Luke senses that they are about to die and becomes hysterical with anguish and rage. They sense each other through the force. Leia collapses into Hans arms, looks up and cries "Luke!" Luke is pulled back to humanity and balance by his sister.

   

    

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   I'd like to take a TO to and take some things DurEn is doing in his TPM script thread and combine it with some things I've been toying with.

   If a couple of doppelgangers for 9-10 year old HC and NP (who could act as well as JL did in the later shots) could be found, it might be possible to produce a faintly ET/HP/Aladdin sort of thing. 60 minutes? Stock CG and footage?

   If, in the crawl, Naboo is the key to controlling it's part of the galaxy, the Federation would have a reason to continue attacking it over a period of several years. If the constitution of Naboo provides that a firstborn child of the regnant assumes the throne in the event of death or abdication, and rules until an emergency election can be held, we could see Crown Princess Padme.

   The scene opens and we see Federation ships attacking and bombarding the capitol. We see troop transports heading for the surface.

   We see a hall outside the throne room. We see a protocol droid and and an R2 unit. The roars and shakes of explosions. Impending disaster.

   The King or Queen and councilors are considering options. The planet might not be able to throw off this assault. The mercenaries and ships from friendly systems won't arrive for some time. The Crown Princess must be taken out of the sector (DuEn). The only way the Queen/King can avoid signing the treaty of enslavement is if the regnant is killed or abdicates while fighting the invaders, and the enemy doesn't have the heir.

    The Naboo and Gungans get the princess into a transport at the last moment. The Monarch is gunned down (it looks like killed). The transport escapes to the nearest planet that has a Jedi presence on it. Qui and Obi are on Tatooie on business to stop criminal support for parties undermining the Republic. We see Padme's shot up transport pursued to the surface-it manages to hide on a platform outside Mos Espa. The Jedi meet them. Maul begins his hunt.

    The Monarch was stunned. He/She abdicated officially just before being shot and is now only the Regent acting on behalf of Queen Padme. We see later the Federation trying to force the treaty but the Regent defiantly points out it won't be valid.

    Jabba has heard of the trouble and ordered all traffic on and off the planet to stop.

    Most of the Tat scenes take place at sunrise, sunset and night.

    The Jedi and Padme first see Ani flying recklessly in a pod. Ani comes to the defense of the party against some creature. Blocks and catches blows with amazing speed and skill but doesn't return the blows because the creature would be justified in killing the slave. The Jedi don't intervene and ignore Padme's calls to stop the fight because they are surprised to sense so much Force in the boy. Ani falls at their feet and Obi "You could always strike him with your other cheek."

    Ani's mother was aristocracy or a teacher on their home planet before sold into slavery. Ani is prococious and aware beyond his years. He speaks in a quiet strong voice and has great reserve and self control for a ten year old. He's devoted to his mother and responsibilities. But underneath are the many ways he has suffered. He tries to keep things light and not dwell on his problems when he is with Padme. He's very concerned for Padme's plight and we see that the slave boy is trying to conceal great resentment against the Senate and the Jedi Council for not preventing the invasion and enslavement of his homeworld.

    There is a storm that can tear away flesh. There is fair or festival at night. There is a short pod race. Ani gives Padme the amulet. The entire time Maul and his probes and local spies are attacking or stalking them. In a drone attack, Ani senses and pounces on the probe just as it fires at Padme, and he disables it with a tool he carries. In an attack by Maul, Ani defends Padme by blocking the sabre blades with rocks in his hands. We see anger and fear on his face. The stones break away to nothing, Ani shrugs and realizes he's done for. Throughout Maul is startled and perplexed, sensing the force in Ani. Qui and Obi arrive and Force push the boy back just as Maul swipes at Ani.

    Maybe a hologram audience before the council or they reach coruscant.

    There might be a chase and battle in space as they escape. The Jedi in their fighters and Ani helping to repair the transport.

might be a chase to ship on Tat 

   The Naboo, Gungans and allies (DuEn) throw off smaller scale invasion.

    At the same time, they manage to get the transport repaired and stop Maul. Qui frees Ani from slavery. Slaves have a band tight around their necks (ST)-it is removed. At sunset, after they get Padme to the ship, a bittersweet goodbye when these two best friends must part, probably never to see each other again. Padme gives Ani a ring.  Ani pulls a cord from his tunic and eagerly ties the ring around his neck.

   

 

 

     

 

     Edit: This storyline is a quick adaptation from 2 TPM outlines. One with 16-17 year old Ani and Padme and another with 9-10 year olds. Sorry it's not better developed. 

    Yeah, the kids should work on their own to solve a mystery of who is stalking them. They solve some of the problems together. Its mostly about how they become the best of friends.

     The ship could be piloted by the droids and Padme in the escape from Naboo. The king and Queen could stay to "Face the same fate as our people."  The rest of the party fights to cover the escape (DuEn).

     Edit: If the crew returns to Coruscant, the great separation could take place there. Padame is being taken into hiding with a female Jedi Knight. Ani thinks they could be together as friends until he finally learns Padme's true identity, a Queen. He must go off to become a Jedi knight. They will never be able to be friends. They say goodbye on a floating pad.

     Naboo cannot be liberated for years. Captain Olie, with nowhere else to go, accepts an offer to fly with a tribe of mercenaries. They promise that all of his missions will be to attack the Federation.

    80 or 90 minutes and then 5 unseen years pass. After all efforts to spur the Senate to take action fails, Queen Padme is determined to liberate her world.

    I like the basic concept of Jar-Jar and the Gungans. In these conceptions, Jar-Jar is toned down but still comedic (like Chewie). He is generally competent. He was banished from the city for taking the Boss' food, or some such. He got himself into it, but he is being punished much too harshly for his crime. This is something everyone has faced. It makes Jar-Jar more relatable, IM0. He has a bit of sadness about him for banishment. The rest of the Gungans are toned down but still comedic, as well. The Ewoks were a stone age society. The Gungans could be a bronze age society. Their city could be built of transparent creature or plant (seems to be the idea) but there are no energy shields. The city is accessed from underneath like a diving bell. Maybe they could take a tree sap that becomes explosive when hardened and use it in their catapults and for the tips of their arrows and javelins.

  

 

 

      

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The most fun part of fantasy football-the line up

I have a tough time with this. I know next to nothing about celebs. I like it that way. I can't stand tabloid nonsense or publicity tripe. I don't believe anything about celebs -good or bad- and I really don't care beyond wishing all the best to the actors I have appreciated, all attention when they wish it and perfect privacy when they don't.

The qualities that interest me are features (Classical painting sort for actresses) voice quality, and name. Cast to type and have all these qualities match the character. The sense to project those qualities on screen.

I take some actors and re-imagine them to the point where they are entirely ficticious, quite different and not connected to anyone.

But for this project, there is one actor who stands out as perfect, IMHO. They must have been casting for Han Solo when they chose their Kirk for ST:'09.  It's too bad CP is THE major character of another space franchise. But at least that demonstrates that it is indeed possible to recast the OT.

Of course, EM would be perfect to reprise a younger Obi. 

All the actors from all the secondary roles could do a fantastic job.

JL was spot on in those later shots. 

I thought HC did better in some sequences of AOTC than NP did in some sequences of TPM. He held his own with IM, EM, NP and SJ in ROTS and delivered an outstanding performance. At the rate he's progressing, he'll win an academy award in '14 ;)

Let's face it, HC for Han and EW for Leia (take whatever has worked and- repeat ;)

If that doesn't work out, unknowns for the two trios-cast to type. I'd go through every HS yearbook in the country to find a few thousand 18-19 year olds who look most like CF/NP, MH/HC, EM and HF and have them read (they are less expensive too:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've read some of your posts but wanted to respond to your last post about casting. I had the thought that Ryan Phillippe would have made a good Anakin in the PT. Google informed me that he did almost get the part D: (but was considered too "old"). I do think I would cast him in my make-believe PT. I'm not so sure he would fit into your remake scheme but wanted to throw it out there.

The blue elephant in the room.

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^ Seems like a good choice if they'd like to go with a little bit older Ani. I haven't seen those films, but he's got great creds, and he sure looks like Luke's dad.

     Characters within the saga theme:

    It seems to me that the over-arching theme of the SW6 saga is "Conflicting Loyalties". The love triangle/s, Ani's responsibility to the Jedi and to Padme, the Jedi's responsibiity to the constitution vs preserving the order in extreme emergency, Luke's responsibility to eliminate threats to the alliance vs calling back his father. Vaders responsibility to his master that saved him vs the son he has met. All of these conflicting calls upon loyalty should be emphasised as much as possible, made as difficult for the characters as will work as drama.

    In this context, having Luke face all of this as a half-trained but very gifted apprentice might work the best. The protaganists should always face overwhelming, impossible odds and know it. Yoda could acknowledge that Luke is not at all prepared for what he must face. Luke could stroll into Jabba's palace, obviously trying to bluff his way through, without knowing the outcome. He might surrender to face the Emperor simply because the party will be found if he doesn't. Luke might be shakey from the start and looking for an opportunity to kill Vader and then the Emperor. This might give even greater power to "I am a Jedi, like my father....";/ Worth considering, anyway, IMHO.

    This leads to a possible improvement to the close of ROTJ. A knighting. An enormous forest clearing. It is a mystical, holy place. Gigantic trees hundreds of feet tall surrounding. At the head of the clearing, in the center, is the tallest and greatest tree of them all. Thousands of rebels and ewoks. It is lit by firelight. On a raised platform, in front of the great tree, is a cloaked and hooded figure. Luke strides down the center and up to kneel before the figure. The hood and cloak are pulled back to reveal Leia in a 'Goddess of the Forest' dress. She looks very worried. Luke nods to her encouragingly and smiles as he gives Leia his sabre. He bows low, face down and eyes closed. Leia ingnites the sabre and raises it high over her head and then straight out from her, over Luke. She releases it away from her with outstretched arms. The crowd gasps as the sabre falls, certain pass through Luke. Luke spreads his arms out and draws the sabre around and into his hand. Luke rises and holds the sabre high as the crowd errupts into cheers and Leia looks tremendously relieved. ( Mostly informed by the PT) It is being hologram-cast throughout the galaxy. We see all the worlds looking at a giant hologram of the scene an cheering wildly. It turns into a celebration with fireworks. Scenes from across the galaxy. (Project) At the end, Ben and Yoda appear. They hold out their hands and draw the images of Ani and Padme from out of the Force. They are dressed in white, innocent teenagers once again.   

 

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   There is so little new material available. If only someone who knows someone who had some access to LFL leaders and archives could throw some bones out here.

    Been following the viewing order topic in discussions thread. Here's something that never would have occured to me. 456123 was the only possible way. Now, I'm intrigued by the implications of the radical 451236 as applied to a saga remake.

    Of the three great surprises in the OT, (Yoda, father, and sister,) only the sister reveal would have to be maintained in a 451236 remake. Also, a workable explanation for the mother's absence is needed. A new style of numbering the films would have to be devised.

    Episode numbering:  Maybe something like   SW The First: The Only Hope----SW The Second: The Empire Strikes----SW The Third: The Phantoms Rising----SW The Fourth: The Clones Attack---- SW The Fifth: The Sith's Revenge----SW The Sixth: The Last Jedi (yeah, the book)   Edit: TES+TCA+TSR are Saga, TPR+TOH are OT.com inspired, TLJ I've wanted since '83 "I have destroyed many Jedi, and you, young fool, shall be THE LAST!" >8(  (make audience believe that rebs will fail and the "Other" will pick up fight in a sequel trilogy (Or maybe, actually...;/) Could the mother be the other???;)

    For Mother and Sister:  The conflicting loyalties must be shown in the extreme at the end of the new PT. Maybe the mother's fall takes place after she goes with Obi, learns she is pregnant, gives birth without us seeing the babies, then has a fallout with the faithful Jedi because she wants to return to Ani. If, as in the PT, Padme is involved in the forming of the rebellion against galactic authority, she could be involved in the Jedi rebellion against the clone atrocities and Jedi master inaction as well. The faithful Jedi take her though she is torn. The Emperor would certainly capture and use her but Padme is convinced she can save Ani. Obi and Yoda must stop her from taking action that will doom the galaxy to horrible oppression. ;/ I think that the idea of the Jedi having great difficulty hiding their presense from the sith when they are with an untrained Force wielder or when two untrained wielders are together would be very important to explaining why Padme gives them up/has them taken from her. This great Achilles Heal impression in the Force could be mentioned in every movie. The Sith specialize in decieving and hiding themselves. The Jedi share community with fellow Force sisters and bretheren.

     As many ANH style quips and gags as can be devised. Even in ROTS, R2 provided some laughs.  :) 

     Re: Preserving the surprises. 

     Yoda could be a pint sized shape shifter . We don't see his OT form in the PT. 

     The Jedi could be given Jedi names. Different from their birth names and they are not used in the OT. Sith do likewise.   

     Just stray thoughts. I'm looking more at viewing order.                                                            

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If Wookies are prefered on Endor,  They might be colonists from long ago. Wookie Amish who wanted to get back to their primitive nature ('Witness'). Alternativey, they could be survivors from a shipwreck 1000's of years in the past.

     When I saw the Ewok, I thought "Rocky!" There is even a Bullwinkle. It could give the creatures an entire other dimension of action.

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thejediknighthusezni said:

If Wookies are prefered on Endor...

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/i2strange97/chewbacca.jpg

That does not make sense!

;-)

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    ( :{)) I was taking wild guesses. I don't know if GL had developed the Jedi duo and clones before '77. The twins might have been projected then, as well.

    I'm sorta stuck. I'm trying to remember the choreography of the ROTJ climax. Alot of different elements and I'm not sure of what I've covered already. Some things that have been covered by other sources here, too.

    The Emperor's Throne Room: An enormous circular area a thousand ft or more in diameter. A black floor. In the center is a raised circular platform with the throne at the very center of all. There is a mote shaft surounding the throne platform that goes all the way to the station core. There is a magnetic containment field dome projected over it all. Maybe a black sunshield, like segments of an orange peel that extend up from the perimeter. All this was intended to be as grand and inexpensive as possible.

    Originally, Vader was to land in a shuttle (now a TIE shuttle.) The emperor was to land in a special tractor beam lowered and raised armored pod. It was shaped like an egg from 'Alien'. It split open from the top and had enough room for the seated emporer and six of the guards. This was a twisting of 'CEOTTK' and 'ET'. I saw a suggestion here from a while back that said the emp should have a special heavily armored shuttle carrying his throne. The problem with landing directly in the throne room is that the audience might realize there is an immediate means of escape before the climax.;/ Maybe Ani gives Luke the key code for an escape pod just below the throne room? ;/ Deus ex machina but a link to the beginning? ;/

    Edit: This escape pod might only have room for one person. Vader activates it for his son.

 

 

     

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The ships of The Empire:

 The ships only began to be built and employed in the last few years of The Republic. The Pru had devoted nearly all of their resources to creating a hyperspace battle fleet. They came up with the design for the standard OT SD and were building and commisioning them in great numbers. There were also complaints in the Senate that the Pru were developing a much larger "SSD". These were the Pru and Imperial HS warships throughout the saga.

   The TIE fighters, TIE bombers, and TIE shuttles were likewise designed and produced in this period. The TIE series were the only small warships seen in the new OT. The fighters were all exactly alike- except for Vader's special fighter. The fighters were tremendously menueverable and a great rival to the X-wings (though they didn't have HD) 

   It was a timeless and technologically static galaxy. There wouldn't be any need to upgrade the ships if they were designed well to begin with. If the Empire had broken the strength of the HS warship powers, there wouldn't be any need for the Empire to create other kinds of warships.

   The Rebel fleet in ROTJ was made up of ships all different from each other. Surviving HS warships from the CW, armed and shielded merchantmen, and local warships with hyperdrive modules pushing them. The fleet carried and launched non-hyperspace fighters.

    All this was to create a strong sense of timelessness (And to keep costs down;)

     Edit: The Empire had stopped producing warships in order to concentrate all resources on the superweapons. This is why some of the impoffs in the ANH briefing were so disgruntled.

     Edit: There could be only one type of TIE. It could be rigged as a Fighter/Bomber with external weapons attached. Vader's TIE could be identical with only Flight Commander markings to distinguish it. We don't HAVE to see any imperial shuttles. There could be only X-wings until non-hs fighters are launched in ROTS. More resources could be devoted to developing the best possible TIEs and Xs.

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    For ROTJ,

    Maybe Leia could be found by seven Ewoks;) Very much has already been said about the difference between cute and cutesy. Wookies are cute. When I think of the Ewoks, I think of Bobcats. Tree dwelling predators that are very cute.

    The shield around the core has been mentioned here. It's the only way I know to get all the story lines to climax together. It creates possibilities for a really neat "Shoot-out at the OK corale" sort of thing with the ships hovering and firing at each other when popping up from behind conduits and so forth.

    The shield falls when the Emperor strikes it? That might have to be set up back in ESB with Yoda exposition about the Sith master able to focus all the darkside power of the galaxy within his person. Vader might have to repeat the same idea to Luke. It would help explain why Vader doesn't dare defy the Emp alone. Vader might make another attempt to recruit Luke to overthrow the Emp while on Endor.

    In the project conception, Endor was a world with gravity about 1/2 or 1/3 that of Earth. That impression might be easier to create with mod FX. It might explain why the trees are so fantastically tall. The trees were a bit alien looking with great diameter trunks. A very alien forest primeval feel.

    Endor located high above the center of the spiral galaxy? That could create a really neat spider behind the Emp in the Throne Room.

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      Because spending LFL's money would be so much fun,

      In the PT revisions, Ani and perhaps the entire gang manage to infiltrate onto the FED base ship. They do this because the base ships were militarized trade bases. They recieved weapons and shield upgrades to military specs. Ani had worked on one of the civil versions in orbit around Tat when he was a tech slave. Ani guessed that they didn't militarize and secure back door organic emergency entrance signals for repair workers in trouble.

    The kids might plot on Coruscant to take down the command and control of the Fed forces by knocking out the reactor on the base ship. The rest of the gang might chase after the kids. ANH DS type hijinks. Might end with Ani accidently setting the reactor to blow-up and all the organics run for escape pods (friendly droids too);/

    Ani is separated and his pod lands in the middle of a large lake. Everyone else in Theed. Padme is very worried about Ani. Qui tells her he senses he's allright. Ani lying on top of the pod floating on the lake looking at the stars. A Gungan emerges and asks why he doesn't go ashore. Ani smiles and says "I don't know how to swim."