STAR WARS Movies Animated — Page 9

I'm very interested to see your outlines for Episodes II and III - I'd really like to see how you want to handle some of the big challenges (Anakin's turn, Palpatine's rise, Anakin's wife and children) of the trilogy.

Further the earlier discussion about the Sith Pirates, it could just be a matter of perspective too.

There is a group that is engaged in combat with ships and to some they are seen as pirates to others they may be seen as a legitimate military force (just as some groups are labelled terrorists or freedom fighters in the news today depending on which part of the world you watch it from). The Jedi may be viewed in the same manner.

As for Anakin's fall it could be more like Kagemusa, Anakin kills the previous Darth Vader and adopts the role with good intentions (using them as a force of good) but the power goes to his head, the role possesses him until he becomes the person he killed.

This could be hinted at by having Anakin discuss the possibilty of using them as a positive force before he vanishes and is presumed dead.

 Another character which could give an interesting alternate origin of Anakin could be Kasper Hauser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspar_Hauser

A boy with no past who has been locked away for all his life and is sent to Obi-Wan to be trained as a Jedi because a note claims his father was a Jedi.

As he is trained his memories begin to return and they could form the basis of his eventual fall.

I'm not sure of the best way to get into my ideas for Ep2 and 3.  When I gave my bare outline for Ep1, it was shot down pretty quick.  I have a lot of ideas going for the next two, but its not as complete or solid as my recent Ep1 outline.  Would you folks rather the bare bones outline of both episodes (I'm not even sure where the transition between movies should occur yet) or just lay out some of the concepts I'm working on?

For example, questions I'm trying to answer are:

1.  What is Clone War II?

2.  Why do we never see Yoda in this trilogy and why is he on Dagobah?

3.  What sets Anakin apart from other Jedi that Palpatine is interested in him?

4.  How does the emperor rise to power and how do we make him NOT seem evil?

5.  If the emperor is willing to kill Anakin's children because they would be a threat to him, why does he keep Vader?

6.  Who are the Sith and why aren't they in the OT?

7.  Why did Obiwan tell Luke, "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father"?

8.  After Alderaan is destroyed in ANH, why isn't Leia a queen?  Wouldn't she be the last living royalty of that world?

9.  Why does Leia remember her "real mother," while Luke finds Dagobah familiar?

Let me know how you would like me to present my ideas (outline or concepts).

2 - Real Answer: To preserve the surprise of his appearance in ESB
My "In-Universe" Answer: Due to his extreme old age, he has decided to remain in solitude, guiding other Jedi from afar through the Force, rather than participate in things that, despite his strength in the Force, might weaken or kill him from age.

5 - He sees Anakin as an incredibly useful tool, but if Anakin had any offspring, he may feel too attached to them and do what he does in ESB/ROTJ (try to have them help him overthrow the Emperor and become the ruler of the galaxy).  Without them or the Jedi, Vader's on his own, with no one but Palpatine to be his "family."

6 - While the "Sith pirates" idea was interesting, since "Sith" is never mentioned in the OT, I don't think they need to be in the PT, either.  I don't think the Jedi need to have an opposing Force-using organization.  But I'm open to the concept if it can be done well.

7 - Because the Jedi Order for all intents and purposes no longer exists by the time of ANH (Obi-Wan and Yoda are the last).

8 - Because Bail Organa, her "father," was still alive and well on Alderaan at the time of its destruction, ruling as King - she would have taken over as Queen if he died (and Alderaan still existed).

9 - Luke/Leia's mother should raise her on Alderaan until her death early in Leia's life, while Obi-Wan could take the twins/Luke to Dagobah for advice from Yoda at the end of III about their/his fate (we see Obi-Wan land on Dagobah with Luke, but we don't see Yoda).

Those are my ideas, anyway - I don't really know about #s 1, 3, or 4.

I don't want you to post an outline if you feel it's not fleshed out enough, but I'd like to hear your concepts if you're willing to share.

OK.

Here's what I have been working on with the above questions (only the first 3 tonight):

1.  What is Clone War II?

Clone War II is a war of fear and paranoia.  The Madalorians are no longer trying to invade the republic.  They are using hit and run attacks on the shipping lanes in an effort to disrupt trade and travel throughout the republic.  They are using new technology that makes their ships difficult read on scanners and are impossible to track (I am going for a WWII U-boat vibe here).  With the senate unable to handle the situation, for the first time, worlds are starting to look out for their own self-interests before the safety of the republic as a whole.  The Mandalorians are also infiltrating the republic with clones.  Anyone you ever knew or trusted could have been replaced by a clone.  Your mother, your neighbor, that quiet guy on the transport, or even your senator (yes, I am going for some of that post 9/11 paranoia).  Most of this would be in the Ep2 crawl.

2.  Why do we never see Yoda in this trilogy and why is he on Dagobah?

It can’t be to just preserve the surprise, we need a reason for Yoda to be elsewhere.  Dagobah is the center of the universe (or galaxy).  It is where life began (the first world with life, if you will).  It is the CENTER of the force.  It is a jungle, because a jungle is uncontrolled life, where life and death (light and dark) are in constant battle with each other.  That is why there are caves filled with the Dark-Side there.  Yoda is there to be at the center, to be almost one with the force.  That is why he can feel all of the disturbances and can direct the Jedi to where they are needed most.  As the story progresses and the republic begins its fall into darkness, it is Yoda who fights to keep the balance on Dagobah.  By the end, he cannot even leave because he is solely holding back the dark side from enveloping the galaxy.  THAT is why Luke must face Vader again in ROTJ (I always thought it was silly that in ESB facing Vader was bad and he wasn’t ready, but when Luke visits Yoda in ROTJ he’s doesn’t need any more training, but to be a Jedi he must face Vader. WHAT?  Been there, done that, Dude!).  With Yoda dead, there will be no one to hold back the darkness, so Luke must end the reign of the emperor to restore the balance.

3.  What sets Anakin apart from other Jedi that Palpatine is interested in him?

Anakin has a unique perspective and it came to him quite naturally.  The Jedi (and the republic) do not approve of clones, because they are artificially created life.  This taints the force, because it is unnatural.  It also makes clones difficult for Jedi to sense or feel (as I showed in Ep1).  What Anakin can do (and its quite simple) and he teaches other Jedi, is to feel the ABSENCE of the force as a way of detecting the clone.  Since he was the first to be able to do this (and so naturally), he is requested to stay on Coruscant to protect the senate.  Palpatine’s interest in him is the same as his interest in anyone else: How can I use HIM to further my agenda?

Dagobah is the center of the universe (or galaxy). 

I don't think it should. It is an hidden place in the OT, IMO. So I don't see Dagobah as Yoda's home in the NEW prequels.

Edit: Well, maybe if ONLY the Jedi knows where he is it could work... but even in this case Dagobah should not be known as the center of the universe.

It could simply be a planet unusually "in tune" with the Force, that the Jedi keep as a secret.

Good ideas as always, Blackhawk!

WheresBlackhawk said:

I'm not sure of the best way to get into my ideas for Ep2 and 3.  When I gave my bare outline for Ep1, it was shot down pretty quick.  I have a lot of ideas going for the next two, but its not as complete or solid as my recent Ep1 outline.  Would you folks rather the bare bones outline of both episodes (I'm not even sure where the transition between movies should occur yet) or just lay out some of the concepts I'm working on?

For example, questions I'm trying to answer are:

1.  What is Clone War II?

2.  Why do we never see Yoda in this trilogy and why is he on Dagobah?

3.  What sets Anakin apart from other Jedi that Palpatine is interested in him?

4.  How does the emperor rise to power and how do we make him NOT seem evil?

5.  If the emperor is willing to kill Anakin's children because they would be a threat to him, why does he keep Vader?

6.  Who are the Sith and why aren't they in the OT?

7.  Why did Obiwan tell Luke, "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father"?

8.  After Alderaan is destroyed in ANH, why isn't Leia a queen?  Wouldn't she be the last living royalty of that world?

9.  Why does Leia remember her "real mother," while Luke finds Dagobah familiar?

Let me know how you would like me to present my ideas (outline or concepts).

Palpatine has to be the consumate politician. Capable of spinning facts to his benefit whilst never seeming to be 'out of line' from the general population. He would be someone with the charisma of Bill Clinton but the underhand/sly tactics of George Bush perhaps (in that he went after a target because he thought it was the right thing to do without the full information or because his advisers told him to)

By the time Vader is in the life supporting armour, his ability to control the Force is already diminished to the point that all he can is Force choke and move objects. To the Emperor, he is already largely useless and perhaps he feels guilty for almost killing his prize 'pupil'.

As said already, Ben is a former Jedi knight because the order is no longer in existence. It's not to say he isn't a Jedi still...just no longer a Knight. Presumably, the older you get the less able you are to control or access the Force which is why Vader taunts him during their final duel - 'your powers are weak, old man'.

Luke and Leia...perhaps their mother actually survived their birth and both were raised on Alderaan till an early age. Luke was taken to Dagobah when he was split up from his sister and had a suggestion planted in his memory before his memory was wiped 'to protect your sister and keep her safely anonymous'? A little far fetched, but plausible given the powers of the Force.

Yoda on Dagobah? Maybe that is the centre of all things Jedi. This is where the apprentices go, not to a seemingly overgrand gesture of a building. It is undetectable by other Force users due to Yoda's immense presence within the Force allowing him to mask the entire planet.

I don't know if this might help, but these are my views on things.

OK let me explain the Dagobah thing a little more.  The planet does need to be known, or Luke never would have found it.  People can know its there, but why should they care?  Its a planet covered in uncontrolable jungle.  It may be where LIFE began, but I didn't say inelligent life or civilization. To most beings its just a slimy mudhole.  Only the Jedi can "feel" its true importance.  AND while there tap into the force in the PUREST sense.

This idea came about because of the "3yr old" thing i told you about.  Dagobah should be unusually "in tune" with the force.  GREAT...Why? Well, because it's the center of all things jedi. GREAT!!...Why?  I know that gets annoying pretty quick, but imagine what it's like when I keep doing it to myself. YEESH!

Actually, to make this easier to digest (and this was always my intent), I don't think Dagobah should ever be named in the NPT.  There are certain characters here who should never know the name of a planet with such importance.  Obiwan can always refer to it as "the heart of the force and the soul of all life" or something equally vague and mystic to describe it being the birthplace of life and the force.  Imagine Obiwan speaking of things like uncontroled life and the heart of the force and then seeing Dagobah for the first time,  the audience may actually be even MORE wierded out than Luke.

I think it's important that nobody feels that their ideas have been shot down or killed off.

Ulitimately if this thread is to deliver anything in the form of an animated alternative to the official prequels someone is going to have to start doing the hard work of animating it and that person will call the shots when it comes to story elements.

It's possible that this thread might create more than one set of stories too.

If anyone feels that their vision of where this idea may go is lost in discussion take away what you do like and write it up.

Keep looking at this thread for other ideas which ring your bell and when you are satisfied start recruiting technical staff.

Ideas like these are like getting free toys and everyday someone posts is Christmas day.

When it comes to making something, then it will be hard work but viewing the final results (be they one project or half a dozen) will be like every Christmas coming at once.

So don't lose heart or kick down anyone elses input.

Have fun and keep the ideas flowing even if they don't match up yet.

Here you go...

The second set of questions:

4.  How does the emperor rise to power and how do we make him NOT seem evil?

I don’t want Palpatine to appear as a politian.  To me that inherently makes the audience expect him to be a liar.  I see him more as the ultimate diplomat.  He is able to sway people to his way of thinking (maybe some of it is the force…but without the hand waving).  Think of him as the kindly elder statesman that people listen to because they like AND respect him.  I am sticking with the idea that the dark side of the force slowly eats away at your living body.  You give up physical strength for the dark power.  He is given the total control in the senate, because he is the one man everyone trusts to get the republic out of this mess.  AND what could possible go wrong, since he is an elder man who is obviously getting weaker in twilight of his life (winkwink).  I am looking to Obiwan to finally discover that Palpatine actually instigated Clone War II through the use of the Sith and some of the clones that have crept into the republic are HIS (leading to the Jedi pulling their support from the entire conflict). 

5.  If the emperor is willing to kill Anakin's children because they would be a threat to him, why does he keep Vader?

This may just be too simple.  The Emperor is not threatened by Vader, because he can turn him off at any time.  Vader only lives at the Emperors good graces.  THAT is why Vader needs Luke to help him overthrow the emperor.

6.  Who are the Sith and why aren't they in the OT?

Ok, The Sith.  I was trying to avoid using them, but since many people thought they were necessary, here ya go.  From my last post you probably figured that the Sith, for lack of a better term, are rogue Jedi.  They have taken the quicker path, because they want results and want to bring an end to the conflict NOW.  The Jedi way is not proactive enough.  They are willing to kill.  The reason there are none in the OT, is because when their usefulness is over (they’ve hunted and destroyed the Jedi) Vader kills them.  The Emperor would never let these powerful dark jedi live.  They could eventually be a threat to him.  So, Like Captain Flint killing his crew to protect his treasure in Treasure Island (there, that’s all for pirates), Vader destroys the other Sith.  That is why he is THE DARK LORD of the Sith.  He brought death to his own kind.  These guys have actually become pivotal to Ep2 and 3 so I am starting to dig them.

Vader destroys the other Sith.  That is why he is THE DARK LORD of the Sith

Brilliant!

What about those old pale guys in purple and red robes that hang around the Emperor in ROTJ?

i looked them up on wookiepedia. they're dark force sensitive advisors. makes sense. i can't see them as lightsaber wielding villains in the Old Republic but they don't make an appearance in the prequels

Erikstormtrooper said:

Blackhawk, your ideas for CW II are great. But I'm left wondering why the mandalorians are randomly planting clones in the populace. What is the point of that?

I'm not sure all that much attention should be paid to Palpatine, or politics for that matter. As a child, I never really wondered about the Emperor's backstory. And I'd be perfectly happy if we never see the inside of the senate. To be a good story, this needs to focus on characters, not a series of events. I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, I just don't want us to get so engrossed with plot points that we forget about the characters.

Astromech:

By the time Vader is in the life supporting armour, his ability to control the Force is already diminished to the point that all he can is Force choke and move objects. To the Emperor, he is already largely useless...

I'm not sure that there should be many force powers beyond what we see in the OT. In that sense, most of the light side powers seem to be mental or "attitudinal", whereas the dark side powers are physical. BTW, I see no need for PT Force powers like "Force speed" or "Force flip" by either side. Question: when Vader blocks Han's blasts with his hand in ESB, is that a Force power?  

For me, writing out my ideas has really helped me make sense of them. I recommend the same to anyone who thinks they may have an interesting take on things.

Again, I have to question the desire to keep the OT's secrets. People already know them. There's no unscrewing the pooch. I say we use these things (if they are relevant to the story). 

 

Doesn't Luke Force flip in ESB?

Erikstormtrooper said:

Blackhawk, your ideas for CW II are great. But I'm left wondering why the mandalorians are randomly planting clones in the populace. What is the point of that?

I'm not sure all that much attention should be paid to Palpatine, or politics for that matter. As a child, I never really wondered about the Emperor's backstory. And I'd be perfectly happy if we never see the inside of the senate. To be a good story, this needs to focus on characters, not a series of events. I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, I just don't want us to get so engrossed with plot points that we forget about the characters.

Astromech:

By the time Vader is in the life supporting armour, his ability to control the Force is already diminished to the point that all he can is Force choke and move objects. To the Emperor, he is already largely useless...

I'm not sure that there should be many force powers beyond what we see in the OT. In that sense, most of the light side powers seem to be mental or "attitudinal", whereas the dark side powers are physical. BTW, I see no need for PT Force powers like "Force speed" or "Force flip" by either side. Question: when Vader blocks Han's blasts with his hand in ESB, is that a Force power?  

For me, writing out my ideas has really helped me make sense of them. I recommend the same to anyone who thinks they may have an interesting take on things.

Again, I have to question the desire to keep the OT's secrets. People already know them. There's no unscrewing the pooch. I say we use these things (if they are relevant to the story). 

 

I agree.... Nail down the characters. That's the crucial part. If you don't like your characters, you won't care about the story.

Again, I have to question the desire to keep the OT's secrets. People already know them. There's no unscrewing the pooch. I say we use these things (if they are relevant to the story). 

I have a mixed feeling about this matter.

While I'd love to have a story that keep the OT's secrets (for staying true to the Star Wars canons we all love) I'd also like to see a story with big twists and surprises that even change our vision of the OT (in a good way of course, not just by screwing the surprises like Lucas movies but also by adding new ones).

You know, things like (I'm in a total "what if" mode by now:) Obi-Wan being the real father of Luke without knowing it. The mother of Luke and Leia lied to him, pretending they are Anakin's childreen, for some reason.

I know it's sounds silly (and yes, it IS silly), it's just an over the top exemple.... But it would makes me laugh, when Vader tells Luke "I am your father", that all the audience thinks "No, you're not!".  Hitchcock often said that a good movie is a movie when the audience knows more than the characters. Perhaps we can find something to play with this.

I guess I'm in an "Lucas X1000" mode. Really it was just an exemple, don't throw too much rotten tomatoes!

Edit: and again, sorry for my english in that post... I have the feeling that it's not really good.

TMBTM said:

Again, I have to question the desire to keep the OT's secrets. People already know them. There's no unscrewing the pooch. I say we use these things (if they are relevant to the story). 

I have a mixed feeling about this matter.

While I'd love to have a story that keep the OT's secrets (for staying true to the Star Wars canons we all love) I'd also like to see a story with big twists and surprises that even change our vision of the OT (in a good way of course, not just by screwing the surprises like Lucas movies but also by adding new ones).

You know, things like (I'm in a total "what if" mode by now:) Obi-Wan being the real father of Luke without knowing it. The mother of Luke and Leia lied to him, pretending they are Anakin's childreen, for some reason.

I know it's sounds silly (and yes, it IS silly), it's just an over the top exemple.... But it would makes me laugh, when Vader tells Luke "I am your father", that all the audience thinks "No, you're not!".  Hitchcock often said that a good movie is a movie when the audience knows more than the characters. Perhaps we can find something to play with this.

I guess I'm in an "Lucas X1000" mode. Really it was just an exemple, don't throw too much rotten tomatoes!

 

Edit: and again, sorry for my english in that post... I have the feeling that it's not really good.

I see what you're saying. Anything that makes us look closer at the OT is good.... Which the current prequels did not. For me, the prequels added nothing to the saga.

One line that seems to carry a lot of importance in ESB but doesn't really feature elsewhere is Yoda's lesson of "Do or do not, there is no try".

It would be good if we saw the failures of Ben, Anakin, the Jedi, the Republic etc coming from them trying and failing and the successes of Palpatine, Vader, etc coming from them doing without trying.

Ben tries to teach Anakin, Anakin tries to be a Jedi, the Jedi try to defend a Republic trying to maintain justice and control in the galaxy but they lack faith in their abilities that is why they fail.

Once Palpatine is on top he becomes complacent (his overconfidence is his weakness) and Vader returns to a position of doubting if he could ever overthrow his master ( "You don't know the power of the darkside I must obey my Master") they both stop doing and start trying to overcome the Rebellion that is why they fail and the Alliance ultimately win.

Even Luke almost fails because he tries to turn his father back to the lightside instead of just doing it.

Ok, here are my answers to those last three questions I posed.  7 & 9 are important to the stories of Ep2 and 3, while question 8 is more getting my head settled into the universe:

7.  Why did Obiwan tell Luke, "I was ONCE a Jedi knight, the same as your father"?

Ok, people were looking for things to be unexpected, someone DID mention this and I really like the idea.  Take the above statement literally. Before this story is complete, Obiwan will leave the Jedi order.  It is really the only way that THIS interpretation of the Jedi Knights and Leia calling him GENERAL Kenobi can co-exist.  Part of my current story places this fact as one of the reasons that Obiwan survives the killing of the Jedi.

8.  After Alderaan is destroyed in ANH, why isn't Leia a queen?  Wouldn't she be the last living royalty of that world?

During my first post, I stated that Leia was adopted and that she knew it.  I still feel this is true.  I don’t think we really need to get into it in any way in the NPT, I just wanted to explain the reasoning so we understand where all the chess pieces are.  If a kingdom falls and the ruler flees to another land, that man is still referred to as the King, correct?  So, after Alderaan is destroyed.  I assume the royal family (except for Leia) is gone.  Wouldn’t that make her Queen? UNLESS she was not blood.  As an adopted member of the family, she could be a princess, but NOT in line of succession.  Is my logic correct here?

9.  Why does Leia remember her "real mother," while Luke finds Dagobah familiar?

Ok, this one really needs work in my mind.  We need to know Anakin’s wife was pregnant.  We need to show the idea of at least ONE child being born (we don’t need a naming ceremony).  And we need to see at least one child being hidden (probably Luke).  I think keeping Leia’s secret will be extremely difficult but I hope you folks can help me figure a way out.  I have some slight-of-hand ideas, but nothing solid YET.  NOW the cooler part, Luke and Dagobah – What if it WAS “out of a dream?”  During one of our Obiwan/Anakin discussions about the force or Yoda, Obiwan describes the “Heart of the Force” (not naming Dagobah) with its uncontrollable life and power and Anakin says that it sounds familiar.  Obiwan replies, “Yes.”  Anakin looks at him questioningly, “It was…”  Obiwan completes the thought, “a dream in your youth.”  Anakin still looks confused.  Obiwan continues, “The force calls out but we can only hear it when we are at peace.  As children, that is when we are asleep, so we see it as dreams.  Some forget them, some dismiss them, and a very few take them to heart and answer the call.”  Answering the call implies being guided to a Jedi and then leading the Jedi to Dagobah.  (Yes I wrote that correctly.  If the child cannot guide the Jedi to Yoda, then they are not ready to be trained.) Anakin could have refused the call, because he felt responsible for his sister (he can leave in EP1 because she has Owen to take care of her).  Luke could have refused the call because Owen would have told him it was just a dream and to forget it.

Well, what do you think?

I've been working on the Ep2 outline and I can tell you that this needs to be a REALLY intricate script to pull off all character moments effectively.  It uses alot of ideas that have been presented here, but is firmly planted in the galaxy I set up in my EP1.  Either it will blow your minds, or you will banish me forever (well maybe not BANISH).

I had never thought of #9 like that, but I really like your answer.  #7 is also an intriguing concept.

Can't wait to see your outlines!

ChainsawAsh, after the scene you posted earlier, I expect you to help me sell #9 in a script.

I liked your sense of dialogue.

I'm actually writing a script based on your Episode I outline - I'm only a few pages in - but I'll definitely do my best.

And to anyone who thinks we don't have enough concrete ideas to be at the script stage yet, I'm doing this as a starting point - it can easily be changed later.

Hey ChainsawAsh,

Quick little idea with the EP1 outline.  I feel that the NPT is feeling a little like a "Boys Club."  Let's bring in Anakin's future wife sooner.  How about as part of Bail's entourage?  She can be a "friend" (could explain why he would raise one of Anakin's children) or family (but no more siblings please).  The idea is that maybe she is the one that talks Bail into getting involved (about his responsibilities to his father and people) while 3p0 tries to talk him out of it (about being reasonable and his responsibility as the heir to stay ALIVE).  Anakin would be attacted to this "go do" attitude.  Keep it playful.

Oh and we need to find out how to get Anakin a lightsaber (I don't think Obiwan just happens to carry a spare).  Should he even HAVE one in Ep1, or should his training be more mental that physical?  If he doesn't need one here, he can just start Ep2 with one and we are cool.