STAR WARS Movies Animated — Page 23

xhonzi said:

Boost:

and not for any justifiable reason.

Really?  I've always thought the PT was the perfect opportunity to explore what would bring a hero down to the point where he becomes Darth Vader.  It seems like a real shame to miss out on that.

Perhaps I phrased it badly.

I want to avoid a situation like in ROTS (or the EU) where going to the Dark Side is a valid and justifiable choice.

The Dark Side isn't cool powers to do good with, where you can do a cost/benefit analysis. It's evil, easier, more seductive, and will dominate your destiny. You can't start down that path.

Anakin should be driven to the Dark Side by succumbing to his weaknesses (I'm working on a combination of anger, impatience, and jealousy... a little like Luke has, only worse),  not by consciously acting out of altruism, and not by being tricked.

Yes, but on Episode III Anakin doesnt seem to turn to the dark side because he gets angry sometimes or lets his feelings control him.

The only reason that is put on Episode III for Anakin to serve Palpatine is the promise of:

"If you kill good people i will (try to) teach you a new power to save good people from death"

Thats it. THAT is the only reason. They even say it three or four times during the film. The ONLY reason for him to do evil things is so Palpatine teaches him new jedi-powers on his jedi-powers list.

So, its not really his choise, he isnt seduced, he is simply extorsioned/tricked into it.

Thats why everybody thinks, when Padme is dead, well, now he will tell Palpatine to stick his new powers up his ass, and hang himself. Since there is NO REASON for Anakin to keep doing evil things.

So, really? Darth Vader spends 25 years thinking "If I keep doing this EVIL stuff maybe, someday, Palpatine and I, maybe, we will start the process of talking about proability of investigating how we somehow can discover the lost knowledge of saving the person that is already dead"?

I have a lot of ideas for an alternate prequel series. I think I've posted them elsewhere before, but I'll try and recap here if anyone's interested in hearing them (they're in no particular order, I'll splash 'em down as they come to mind):

1. The alternate prequel series takes place during the "dark times" mentioned by Obi-Wan in Star Wars. It isn't possible to actually show us the true glory days of the Republic because, and I think I went into this more in another post, that kind of perfect society will only ever be a dream - we can't ever show it on film. (As opposed to the Dark Times taking place between RotS and ANH)

2. There is a single antagonistic Sith figure just as with the original trilogy. In terms of design, I would say something like Darth Maul - he's iconic in the same way that Vader is iconic, he's a very obvious representation of evil. This antagonistic figure would initially be the golden boy of the unknown Sith but, after having been defeated by Anakin Skywalker, falls from grace and desperately hopes to regain the favor of his former master - his fall from power is Vader's rise to power. As Anakin turns to the dark side, this Sith becomes weaker before finally he's completely pitiful yet Anakin murders him just the same. "Battle not with a monster lest ye become a monster", and all that. (As opposed to multiple Sith)

3. Anakin Skywalker is essentially a good person, but the toils of war begin to wear heavily upon him. Obi-Wan wishes for him to be disciplined and patient, even under the awful circumstances of the Clone Wars. Seeing suffering all around him, Anakin gradually begins to reject this view. He wants order and he wants it now, before more suffer. He takes the easy way out, the way that entails less suffering for others but (more importantly) also less suffering for him - he chooses the dark side. (As opposed to saving his love interest)

4. The friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin could work on the basis of Anakin being worldly wise yet Obi-Wan being spiritually wise. Initially, Obi-Wan would not understand the cut-throat world of Tatooine, but it's Anakin who shows him the ropes. In the same way, Anakin is completely out of his element in the stoic world of the Jedi, but Obi-Wan shows him how to be in that world too. It would be a friendship based on helping each other, with the line between master and teacher very blurred. (As opposed to the clearly struggling relationship from AotC and the lack of a relationship in PM)

5. Anakin would surrender his light-saber to Obi-Wan before his final turn to the dark side. The pain of the war would come to be too much for him and he would resign from the Jedi. Regardless of his resignation, he cannot ignore the continuing blood-shed and would long for "an end to this destructive conflict" and for "order" in the galaxy. (As opposed to Obi-Wan taking his saber from him after he is defeated on Mustafar)

These are just some themes, ideas, characters and situations I think would work in an alternate prequel series. I think there's glimmers of some of these things in the prequel series, but they're mostly unfulfilled and lost in the general confusion of those movies.

I had a much more elaborate plan worked out before I deleted it, swearing to myself that I wouldn't waste any more time thinking about what might have been. But if we're talking about animating an alternate series, I'd be more than happy to submit some ideas and maybe even a draft.

Oh and here's an important thing we should work out, who are our heroes and what are their personalities?

Anakin: Idealistic yet worldy-wise, he's a down to earth kind of guy who just wants to do good in the universe. He's seen the tough side of life and wants to do his part to make things better - one way he sees of doing this is fighting against the [whoever the antagonistic army is in this alternate series], which is why he joins Obi-Wan on his "fool idealistic crusade".

Obi-Wan: Like Anakin, Obi-Wan also wants to do good in the universe. Unlike Anakin, he sees this conflict in spiritual rather than practical terms (something that can become a point of light-hearted and also serious conflict between them). In the first episode, he's a naive true-believer. By the time we near the end of the series, he's a man who truly understands war.

Bail Organa: Something of a stuck-up royal, he is at first skeptical of the Jedi. Obi-Wan's apparently "head in the clouds" attitude frustrates him - especially considering he comes to rely on him for defence in dangerous situations. As the series progresses, however, this skepticism begins to slip and he comes to appreciate both Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Yoda: All we know that he must do in this series is train Obi-Wan and refuse to train Anakin - though he could probably be a major character, perhaps even the alien in the way Chewbacca is the alien in the OT.

C-3PO & R2D2: Obi-Wan didn't seem to remember ever owning a droid, so that's out of the question. Though 3PO does say "no more adventures", why not let us see these "adventures"?

The Love Interest™: I got nothin'.

The Badguy: See #2 for some ideas.

xhonzi said:

Nice ideas, TheoOdo...  1 quick question while I digest the other things you wrote: Why Tatooine?  I always thought it was a big mistake to put any of the Prequels there... it's already a little hard to swallow that they would "hide" Luke under his father's actual surname... if they also hid him from his father on his father's home planet...

I've thought long about that one myself, and I'd still start the story on Tatooine.

One of my goals is to make Obi as little of a liar as possible.  The lies he tells to Luke in "Star Wars" are to spare the boy's feelings, and he probably means to tell him the whole truth when the current crisis is over.

Im wokring that Anakin, his sister Beru, and her husband Owen are settlers (a nice Western-movie trope) who fled to Tatooine to find oppurtunities as the endless civil war of the collapsing Republic have made oppurtunities scarce. Owen and Beru are farmers, and Anakin flies supply runs. So it's not really Vader's home planet.

(also, I'm planning that Vader never even knows he had kids or that his lady was preggers, so another reason it works to hide Luke so carelessly)

Here's an interesting thing about the "Skywalker" name.

Luke never actually uses it to describe himself until he meets Leia and says "I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you."

Now, I know this may be contradicted in some of the novels and other EU shenanigans, but it's possible (if we go off the movies alone) that Luke lived under the name of "Luke Lars" until he learnt about his father from Obi-Wan. After learning that his father was a Jedi and after realising he would have to leave his life on Tatooine behind, he may have decided "Hey, I want to be a Jedi. I want adventure and excitement - I'm going to re-adopt my father's name! I'm going to re-create myself! I'm going to let the universe know I'm the son of Skywalker!"

Obi-Wan might have advised him against this, but at this point he was out of the picture and couldn't stop him. Then Luke becomes a famous hero of the rebellion, and Vader's interest is piqued.

Edit:

On an aside, if any of these ideas were to be actually filmed I would love for it to be done using exclusively the special effects techniques available at the time the original trilogy was made.

I'd like to present another idea here for some scrutiny, if that's okay. This is an idea for the basic background of the prequels and for the antagonistic army of the prequels:

Many years have passed since the Mandalorian War brought chaos to the Galactic Republic. Surviving only barely thanks to the efforts of the Jedi Knights, the Galactic Republic has now entered a dark period in its history.

Insisting that the Republic is ill-suited to handle these conflicts, a separatist movement has emerged united under a common philosophy of militarism and authoritarianism. Led by former Republic General, Wilhuff Tarkin (an ingenious tactician and military strategist), the Republic was at first forced to ignore the ever widening scope of the newly formed "Galactic Federation".

The Republic finally entered into conflict with the Galactic Federation when, under the pretense of "offering military protection to unprotected planets", the Federation invaded and occupied several defenceless worlds - including Alderaan - with an army of Clones.

The prequel series concludes with what had been the scheme of the Emperor all along - the merging of the Republic with the occupied Federation worlds, to form the Galactic Empire. The source of the Madalorian conflict is "identified" as having been the work of the Jedi, and they are outlawed. The re-unification of the Republic and the Federation is hailed as the way toward stability in the galaxy, with Palpatine publicly welcoming Tarkin back into the fold and offering many of the former Federation leaders positions in the new order.

Visually, the Federation army would have a lot in common with the Galactic Empire of the original trilogy. In a way, it is the Empire's ideas that are being fought from day one, until gradually the Republic comes to share those ideas and, once the Jedi have been scape-goated, transforms into the Empire.

i like the little bit of Clone Wars history revealed in this issue of the old Marvel Star Wars comics concerning Mandalorians:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_68:_The_Search_Begins

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071018232759/starwars/images/9/95/Mandaloriansclonewars.jpg

shortly after Palpatine set up the Galactic Empire, the Mandalorian government sent in 212 Supercommandos to help fight for the Empire during the Clone Wars. only three survived. Boba Fett, Fenn Sysha and Tobbi Dala. Fett who was their chief officer, became disenchanted with fighting for the Empire and went off on his own to become a bounty hunter.

Greetings Folks.

I was cleaning up some HD space on the desktop and came across the outlines I had worked up (many pages back) with ChainsawAsh and other folks here. Some of it I still liked and some of it raised some more questions, so I thought I would ask them here in my typical freeform ramble(if any of the older posters still drop by).

Where does the name "Ben" Kenobi come from?

He tells Luke that he hadn't gone by the name "Obiwan" since before Luke was born.  Obviously, this never happened in the PT, but for the NPT why the name change?  If it's because he is a Jedi in hiding,  then he must go away BEFORE the twins are born. So would he have to leave the story early? (which didn't work for my story since he is the main charcter in my NPT). 

Why else would he change his name?  In honor of a character named Ben who dies during the NPT?  I think that could work.

OR ...

Maybe Ben is his real name and Obiwan is the name he takes when he becomes a Jedi Knight. If the Jedi are almost a kind of religious order (remember how that Imperial Officer on the Death Star in IV refered to the Force as an ancient religion), there are many of those across our world where the person takes on a new name at ordination.  In my outline, Kenobi leaves the Jedi either at the end of 2 or the beginning of 3, so at that time he would also go back to being BEN.

SO...

What does this mean for Anakin?

Was he born Anakin and his Jedi name is Vader? It works and can make Ben's "certain point of view" argument more symbolic in meaning.  After all, Kenobi DID call him "a young jedi named Darth Vader." I'm not a fan, of course because this blows the Empire reveal. 

So how about Anakin having a different name for all of EP1 (like... Kane. Lucas' original name for Anakin's father) until the end when he officially begins his "first step into a larger world" and in a ceremony becomes the first tier Jedi  Knight Anankin.  I kinda like the idea, it does mean when he falls to the darkside and is no longer a Jedi, he would "cease being Anakin Skywalker." BUT I'm not sure about calling him Kane for an entire Episode.

What do ya think?

I really like the idea of Ben taking the name of "Obi-Wan" when he becomes a Jedi Knight.  I had a friend who did the same thing when she was confirmed in becoming a nun, and it adds additional monk-ish parallels to the Jedi of the Republic.

WheresBlackhawk, did you ever write out that EP3 treatment you talked about?  If you did, I would love to read it - I have just finished mainlining this thread and I have to say that I thought your ideas were generally brilliant.

Hey Guitarfan01.  Thanks for the compliment.

Sadly my EP3 "treatment" never really got beyond a vague outline of plot points that needed to be covered.  I was having structure issues with EP2.  Then the creative climate here shifted to Dread-pirate Roberts and Awesome Warrior Jedis.  Once ChainsawAsh departed, I kinda lost interest as well.

Whether its considered good or bad news, coming across my NPT files last week kinda got me excited about the possibilities again.  A friend of mine loaned me the PT soundtracks.  Its amazing how a little John Williams can inspire some scene work. I've filled in details and about doubled the size of the EP1 treatment (I think it would have made a pretty awesome film). I think I've figured out how to fix the structure of EP2. My goal with EP2 is to make it end like a victory for the republic, but the losses should be devastating for our beloved characters.  It is now starting to lay groundwork for EP3 pretty nicely. I'm trying to set myself a deadline. I want to get all my ideas for the NPT down by August 1st.  Keep your fingers crossed.

Here are my new questions for the week:

How should Jedi combat work?
I think this needs to be reinvented.  As anyone who has read this thread knows, I HATE the idea of bada$$ Jedi.  To me that goes against EVERYTHING from the OT (Ugh, Samuel L. Jackson? Obiwan swinging his sword like Conan?). So, if the force should only be used for knowledge and defense, then how DOES one succeed in battle?  I really don't even like the "force push." If I walk up to you and "push" you across the room, to me, that speaks to "aggression," one of those naughty words Yoda spoke of.  So we need to come up with something new, like the Jedi equivalent of judo.  Jedi Judo? I'm so sorry, but PLEASE bear with me.  How can the force weilder use the aggression, anger, and attack of the enemy to their advantage? That's what I'm looking for. Any ideas would be appreciated.

next...
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can POSSIBLY imagine."  How does Ben know this? How does he become "more powerful" in EP5and6?  Is it because he is now PART of the force?  Wouldn't it be cool, if the reason he defeats Vader in EP3 is because of a moment of pure power fed by the Jedi Vader himself helped destroy? Maybe the force was "strong" in Luke during the Death Star battle because Ben was WITH him at that moment. Of course this raises the question, why did Ben abandon Luke when he confronted Vader in Bespin.  Why did Luke HAVE TO do it alone?

Again any ideas to help connect the dots would be great.

Remember: if we want to make something cool for the NPT, it must not only fill in the blanks and the past of the OT, but it must also make us look at the OT in a new light.  THEN i think it would be a successful story.

Thanks for your kind attention.

I was thinking about the Vader killing Anakin issue.

If I'm correct then in the OT nobody evers says that a Jedi can't teach more than one padawan, so Obiwan could have had a group of students. He even says '...who was a pupil of mine...'

If Vader's name comes up earlier so we know that a Darth Vader exists somewhere and he is a former Jedi who turned to the dark side, then Anakin could be sent after him alone or with a few other Jedi to capture/defeat Vader.

If we see Anakin go on a mission at some point in the movie and later Vader comes back telling Obiwan that Anakin is no more then only Obiwan knows what he really means and who he really is (if he can sense his true identity), we don't.

During their conversation/fight Vader could refer Obiwan as his former master, so Obi wouldn't sound such a liar in EP IV.

Of course this means that Anakin should have turned to the dark side earlier and that he is good enough with the Force to hide this little fact from the other Jedi.

Ah, that was a fun thread.

xhonzi said:

... but I fear it being a total train wreck.

And that's a bad thing why?