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STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - NOW IN PRODUCTION — Page 100

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I think it makes more sense for stormtroopers to be drafted gender-neuttally, since they’re just faceless grunts that are nothing more than cannon fodder and sheer numbers would be more important than sexism.

It does make sense to me that no women would be in officer/command positions, though.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

I think it makes more sense for stormtroopers to be drafted gender-neuttally, since they’re just faceless grunts that are nothing more than cannon fodder and sheer numbers would be more important than sexism.

It does make sense to me that no women would be in officer/command positions, though.

The duraglass ceiling.

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doubleofive said:

exitzero said:

DominicCobb said:

sansuni said:

exitzero said:
*Alter Vader’s line to say “Your Mother once thought as you do.”

Alright, I don’t agree everything you said, but this one is something I wholeheartedly agree.

As far as I can recall, other than the damned prequels, there isn’t a single mention of Luke and Leia’s mother in OT. Which is kind of weird in a way and it would be really nice have a little mention like this.

I wouldn’t want Vader to say “Padme”, but a line like “Your Mother once thought as you do.” would fit perfectly.

I agree completely. Even if it’s not for ady, it’s a change I’d love to see someone figure out some day.

James Earl Jones has done an audio of the entire bible, I’m sure the phrase “Your Mother” is in there somewhere.

Someone at some time did this.

Ridley did a few good attempts on the Collaborative thread last year.

Sir Ridley said:

Your mother once thought this should do:
https://mega.nz/#!bR0CUAgZ!8tXiiKI9PUpvmjG1VO3qkCUnFyiF5YaVewQ-oSBXAdw

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It does make sense to me that no women would be in officer/command positions, though.

Is that sexist? I can never tell.

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 (Edited)

Ridley did a few good attempts on the Collaborative thread last year.

Sir Ridley said:

Your mother once thought this should do:
https://mega.nz/#!bR0CUAgZ!8tXiiKI9PUpvmjG1VO3qkCUnFyiF5YaVewQ-oSBXAdw

That’s pretty good. I think it would be even better if there was a half second gap between Mother & Once. I stumbled across this today when I was searching to see if anyone had done it. The music was a problem–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfnFYoDamZs

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exitzero said:

It does make sense to me that no women would be in officer/command positions, though.

Is that sexist? I can never tell.

I…um…yeah? That’s the whole point. That the Empire would be sexist, but not to the point that they’d turn away cannon fodder for grunts like stormtroopers, regardless of sex.

a trolling bantha

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I’ve felt having even one or two female voice lines could help make it clearer that stormtroopers aren’t clones, because if you just watch the movies you might not know. Or even if the male voices could sound more varied and different than they currently do. But this is a nitpicky thing.

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 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:

I think it makes more sense for stormtroopers to be drafted gender-neuttally, since they’re just faceless grunts that are nothing more than cannon fodder and sheer numbers would be more important than sexism.

It does make sense to me that no women would be in officer/command positions, though.

Certainly agree on the first point… but on the second, I think it could be a matter of debate if sexism even exists in the Star Wars universe? It’s definitely not something that’s ever explored. The EU made Imperial racial prejudice a thing but truthfully SW as a series has never really been about prejudice in that sort of way. There’s an argument of course that the villains are a mirror to the villains in our own world which is fair but, Devil’s advocate… the Empire being sexist isn’t a given.

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

doubleofive said:

ray_afraid said:

exitzero said:

*If you are adding female rebel pilots, consider re-voicing a stormtrooper, or better yet a biker scout, with a
woman’s voice. I wanted to suggest that for ESB:R but it was too late.

I don’t think the Empire is an “equal opportunity” kinda regime…

I don’t see why not.

Yeah. They’re probably a wonderful group who’s had their name unjustly slandered by those Rebel terrorists. All the Emperor wants is equality and happiness for everyone.
And these awful movies dare to paint the Rebel as heroes while the Empire is constantly compared to the Nazis. Shame. Coulda’ been a great series.

Anything that makes the Empire seem nicer would be a welcome change.

I don’t see how Imperials drafting women as well as men makes them seem nicer.

But doesn’t the exclusion of women make them seem more sinister?
Is it really just me?

I mean, if it was in contrast to a Rebellion filled with a healthy parity of men and women, maybe, but considering how few women are actually shown the Alliance, the Imperial gender makeup kinda just feels like an extension of the OT’s general, inadvertent sausage-fest nature (rather than an intentional, story-driven decision).

RogueLeader said:

I’ve felt having even one or two female voice lines could help make it clearer that stormtroopers aren’t clones, because if you just watch the movies you might not know. Or even if the male voices could sound more varied and different than they currently do. But this is a nitpicky thing.

+1

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 (Edited)

exitzero said:

never made any effort to turn Anakin back from the Darkside so the line doesn’t really make sense. But Padme did. Her >attempt to talk Anakin back on Mustafar was similar to Luke trying with Vader on Endor. I also like the idea of Vader >mentioning Padme when he’s talking to his son. I think it would add a little more weight to the conversation & when he’s >looking out over the forest.

Like I said-just a wish list.

Oh fair enough I don’t really watch the prequels enough these days, but yeah I guess that makes sense.

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 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

doubleofive said:

ray_afraid said:

exitzero said:

*If you are adding female rebel pilots, consider re-voicing a stormtrooper, or better yet a biker scout, with a
woman’s voice. I wanted to suggest that for ESB:R but it was too late.

I don’t think the Empire is an “equal opportunity” kinda regime…

I don’t see why not.

Yeah. They’re probably a wonderful group who’s had their name unjustly slandered by those Rebel terrorists. All the Emperor wants is equality and happiness for everyone.
And these awful movies dare to paint the Rebel as heroes while the Empire is constantly compared to the Nazis. Shame. Coulda’ been a great series.

Anything that makes the Empire seem nicer would be a welcome change.

I don’t see how Imperials drafting women as well as men makes them seem nicer.

But doesn’t the exclusion of women make them seem more sinister?
Is it really just me?

I mean, if it was in contrast to a Rebellion filled with a healthy parity of men and women, maybe, but considering how few women are actually shown the Alliance, the Imperial gender makeup kinda just feels like an extension of the OT’s general, inadvertent sausage-fest nature (rather than an intentional, story-driven decision).

We see women in the Rebellion in many different roles. Spies, gunners, and even Top Brass. Ady’s returning female voices to female pilots. Sure, there could be more, but female representation is clearly there.
There’s no diversity at all in the Empire. No females, no other races. I feel strongly that it’s a story-driven element.

Also, is it stated in the movies (OT) that the Empire is drafting people? I kinda figured it was indoctrination and the lure of the darkside.
[I also figure the Empire has been building for much longer than what the PT sets up. So.]

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

There’s no diversity at all in the Empire. No females, no other races.

Technically, the clones during the events of ROTS are officially the first soldiers of the newly founded (“first galactic…”) Empire, so Maori warriors were represented as a very strong minority 😉

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ray_afraid said:

Also, is it stated in the movies (OT) that the Empire is drafting people? I kinda figured it was indoctrination and the lure of the darkside.

BIGGS: I know it’s a long shot, but if I don’t find them I’ll do what I can on my own… It’s what we always talked about. Luke, I’m not going to wait for the Empire to draft me into service. The Rebellion is spreading and I want to be on the right side – the side I believe in.

LUKE: Well, I’ll be at the Academy next season… after that who knows. I won’t be drafted into the Imperial Starfleet that’s for sure… Take care of yourself, you’ll always be the best friend I’ve got.

As an aside, this convo with Luke completely dispels the EU misconception that Luke was joining an Imperial Academy. Why would Biggs and Luke be worried about being drafted into the Empire if they were already signing up? On the contrary, it points to the Academy either being part of a local municipality or the equivalent of a trucker school. Just one of those things that the EU got wrong that has always bugged me.

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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ray_afraid said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

doubleofive said:

ray_afraid said:

exitzero said:

*If you are adding female rebel pilots, consider re-voicing a stormtrooper, or better yet a biker scout, with a
woman’s voice. I wanted to suggest that for ESB:R but it was too late.

I don’t think the Empire is an “equal opportunity” kinda regime…

I don’t see why not.

Yeah. They’re probably a wonderful group who’s had their name unjustly slandered by those Rebel terrorists. All the Emperor wants is equality and happiness for everyone.
And these awful movies dare to paint the Rebel as heroes while the Empire is constantly compared to the Nazis. Shame. Coulda’ been a great series.

Anything that makes the Empire seem nicer would be a welcome change.

I don’t see how Imperials drafting women as well as men makes them seem nicer.

But doesn’t the exclusion of women make them seem more sinister?
Is it really just me?

I mean, if it was in contrast to a Rebellion filled with a healthy parity of men and women, maybe, but considering how few women are actually shown the Alliance, the Imperial gender makeup kinda just feels like an extension of the OT’s general, inadvertent sausage-fest nature (rather than an intentional, story-driven decision).

We see women in the Rebellion in many different roles. Spies, gunners, and even Top Brass. Ady’s returning female voices to female pilots. Sure, there could be more, but female representation is clearly there.

Let’s say we see about a hundred people in the rebellion total across the three movies. How many of them are women? 4?

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

doubleofive said:

ray_afraid said:

exitzero said:

*If you are adding female rebel pilots, consider re-voicing a stormtrooper, or better yet a biker scout, with a
woman’s voice. I wanted to suggest that for ESB:R but it was too late.

I don’t think the Empire is an “equal opportunity” kinda regime…

I don’t see why not.

Yeah. They’re probably a wonderful group who’s had their name unjustly slandered by those Rebel terrorists. All the Emperor wants is equality and happiness for everyone.
And these awful movies dare to paint the Rebel as heroes while the Empire is constantly compared to the Nazis. Shame. Coulda’ been a great series.

Anything that makes the Empire seem nicer would be a welcome change.

I don’t see how Imperials drafting women as well as men makes them seem nicer.

But doesn’t the exclusion of women make them seem more sinister?
Is it really just me?

I mean, if it was in contrast to a Rebellion filled with a healthy parity of men and women, maybe, but considering how few women are actually shown the Alliance, the Imperial gender makeup kinda just feels like an extension of the OT’s general, inadvertent sausage-fest nature (rather than an intentional, story-driven decision).

We see women in the Rebellion in many different roles. Spies, gunners, and even Top Brass. Ady’s returning female voices to female pilots. Sure, there could be more, but female representation is clearly there.

Let’s say we see about a hundred people in the rebellion total across the three movies. How many of them are women? 4?

We see MANY more people working for the Empire. How many are women? None. How many are alien? None. How many aren’t white males? none. The comparisons to Nazism aren’t coincidental.
We see women featured in important roles in the Rebellion, even if we don’t see many. RotJ in particular seems to hammer this point.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

doubleofive said:

ray_afraid said:

exitzero said:

*If you are adding female rebel pilots, consider re-voicing a stormtrooper, or better yet a biker scout, with a
woman’s voice. I wanted to suggest that for ESB:R but it was too late.

I don’t think the Empire is an “equal opportunity” kinda regime…

I don’t see why not.

Yeah. They’re probably a wonderful group who’s had their name unjustly slandered by those Rebel terrorists. All the Emperor wants is equality and happiness for everyone.
And these awful movies dare to paint the Rebel as heroes while the Empire is constantly compared to the Nazis. Shame. Coulda’ been a great series.

Anything that makes the Empire seem nicer would be a welcome change.

I don’t see how Imperials drafting women as well as men makes them seem nicer.

But doesn’t the exclusion of women make them seem more sinister?
Is it really just me?

I mean, if it was in contrast to a Rebellion filled with a healthy parity of men and women, maybe, but considering how few women are actually shown the Alliance, the Imperial gender makeup kinda just feels like an extension of the OT’s general, inadvertent sausage-fest nature (rather than an intentional, story-driven decision).

We see women in the Rebellion in many different roles. Spies, gunners, and even Top Brass. Ady’s returning female voices to female pilots. Sure, there could be more, but female representation is clearly there.

Let’s say we see about a hundred people in the rebellion total across the three movies. How many of them are women? 4?

We see MANY more people working for the Empire. How many are women? None. How many are alien? None. How many aren’t white males? none. The comparisons to Nazism aren’t coincidental.
We see women featured in important roles in the Rebellion, even if we don’t see many. RotJ in particular seems to hammer this point.

The vast majority of Imperials we see are stormtroopers so we can’t tell for sure either way.

As for ROTJ, I don’t think adding one more female to the Alliance leadership is “hammering home” anything.

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 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

The comparisons to Nazism aren’t coincidental.

In Nazi regime a few women were known as pilots (and in France and UK during the same period you wouldn’t find many women serving as soldiers or pilots anyway). Besides, the comparison is weird: Germany didn’t colonize many countries and they haven’t kept their colonies for long, so there wasn’t that much black or arabian people to begin with in Germany when Nazi won the elections. So yeah German soldiers were white male during WWII… as were Polish soldiers, Italian soldiers, France metropolitan soldiers, UK soldiers, Russian soldiers, etc.

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Telion said:

exitzero said:

never made any effort to turn Anakin back from the Darkside so the line doesn’t really make sense. But Padme did. Her >attempt to talk Anakin back on Mustafar was similar to Luke trying with Vader on Endor. I also like the idea of Vader >mentioning Padme when he’s talking to his son. I think it would add a little more weight to the conversation & when he’s >looking out over the forest.

Like I said-just a wish list.

Oh fair enough I don’t really watch the prequels enough these days, but yeah I guess that makes sense.

Even discounting the prequels (a good idea, IMHO), it would be a good change because it gives a bit more characterization/importance to the otherwise non-existent Mrs. Anakin Skywalker (using the name “Padme,” if just watching the OT, has little meaning). It also implies that Vader still thinks about her, which gives Luke some hint of a bit of goodness within him. While the name “Anakin Skywalker” might not mean anything to him, his wife does still hold some significance in his self-identity.

I’m also wondering how we all feel about deleting the line “It is too late for me, son.” It seems way too telegraphed and kind of gives away Vader’s turn (as does “It is pointless to resist”). Just having Vader stand at the window is enough to get the point across. Adywan hinted at incorporating some dialogue tweaks and I think these would be solid tweaks, along with deleting the whole “jealous Han” subplot that gets all of two scenes and gets cut out of most ROTJ edits (e.g., Darth Rush, who handled it pretty well).

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Well, forgive me for saying so, but sexism in space is just a stupid argument. Empire couldn’t have any sexist agenda. Only reason why there isn’t many female actresses around is because it was made in the 70’s. Trying to find a in lore explanation for the lack of females in the movies is just pointless. There isn’t many because they didn’t hire many female actresses. They didn’t hire many female actresses because it was the 70’s.

Also to be fair, 99% of the Storm Troopers never talk and all of them are wearing full body armor and helmet, there is no way to determine their gender. Sure, we never see a female officer, but there is no way to say there wasn’t female officers, we never saw all officers. I know that doesn’t sound like it is a great argument, but it was never stated in the movies either way. There is no way to determine one way or another. (I am sure Ady could add a few female Empire officers and a few female Rebels in the edit and to be fair, it would be a brilliant addition, but depending on the difficulty, it might not even worth it. Not to mention these added people wouldn’t be able to speak because adding extra lines would alter the movies too greatly unless it is done in a extremely calculated way.)

We don’t see any female Jedi or Sith in the movies either, does this mean there were no female Jedi or Sith ever? Ignoring the later movies, we never even saw Leia use any Jedi powers, so one could argue maybe being a Jedi is a male thing. You will notice neither argument holds any facts. We are just assuming because of what we see in OT.

I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide until it goes away..

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ray_afraid said:

BedeHistory731 said:
deleting the whole “jealous Han” subplot

Yes, please! Han & Leia fall in love in Empire. That should be that.

All you have to do is cut Han showing up after Luke leaves for the base and shorten the Han and Leia scene at the end.

Leia: “He wasn’t, I can feel it.”
Han gives a surprised look.
Leia: “He’s my brother.”
Han and Leia kiss, with Han trying not to think about the incestuous smooch from a movie ago.

I don’t mind the callback to “I love you.” “I know.” in the bunker scene. It always struck me as Han realizing “This is why I love her so much. She can be just as devious as me!” I get why people don’t like it though.

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BedeHistory731 said:

ray_afraid said:

BedeHistory731 said:
deleting the whole “jealous Han” subplot

Yes, please! Han & Leia fall in love in Empire. That should be that.

All you have to do is cut Han showing up after Luke leaves for the base and shorten the Han and Leia scene at the end.

Leia: “He wasn’t, I can feel it.”
Han gives a surprised look.
Leia: “He’s my brother.”
Han and Leia kiss, with Han trying not to think about the incestuous smooch from a movie ago.

I don’t mind the callback to “I love you.” “I know.” in the bunker scene. It always struck me as Han realizing “This is why I love her so much. She can be just as devious as me!” I get why people don’t like it though.

I agree all the way.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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BedeHistory731 said:

ray_afraid said:

BedeHistory731 said:
deleting the whole “jealous Han” subplot

Yes, please! Han & Leia fall in love in Empire. That should be that.

All you have to do is cut Han showing up after Luke leaves for the base and shorten the Han and Leia scene at the end.

Leia: “He wasn’t, I can feel it.”
Han gives a surprised look.
Leia: “He’s my brother.”
Han and Leia kiss, with Han trying not to think about the incestuous smooch from a movie ago.

I don’t mind the callback to “I love you.” “I know.” in the bunker scene. It always struck me as Han realizing “This is why I love her so much. She can be just as devious as me!” I get why people don’t like it though.

+2

a trolling bantha

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darthrush did that for his edit, it’s pretty good. There’s also the moment right after Luke leaves the Ewoks and the gang to surrender himself to Vader.

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Omni said:

darthrush did that for his edit, it’s pretty good. There’s also the moment right after Luke leaves the Ewoks and the gang to surrender himself to Vader.

The darthrush cutlist would be a good starting point for Ady to try more “radical” fixes to the movie. While I do like what darthrush did (especially in Ewok cutbacks and eliminating some of the cringiest moments), there are a few points I’m not keen about. Adywan probably won’t cut back Han’s banter to the extent of darthrush, nor will he keep the galactic celebrations or the 500 Nations-inspired theme.

I’m sure Adywan will release a color-corrected version of the blu-ray (using 2004 HDTV to remove blu-ray changes) when he finishes said corrections (like he did with ANH), so it should be easy for other editors to restore bits he cuts while maintaining seamlessness.

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BedeHistory731 said:

Telion said:

exitzero said:

never made any effort to turn Anakin back from the Darkside so the line doesn’t really make sense. But Padme did. Her >attempt to talk Anakin back on Mustafar was similar to Luke trying with Vader on Endor. I also like the idea of Vader >mentioning Padme when he’s talking to his son. I think it would add a little more weight to the conversation & when he’s >looking out over the forest.

Like I said-just a wish list.

Oh fair enough I don’t really watch the prequels enough these days, but yeah I guess that makes sense.

Even discounting the prequels (a good idea, IMHO), it would be a good change because it gives a bit more characterization/importance to the otherwise non-existent Mrs. Anakin Skywalker (using the name “Padme,” if just watching the OT, has little meaning). It also implies that Vader still thinks about her, which gives Luke some hint of a bit of goodness within him. While the name “Anakin Skywalker” might not mean anything to him, his wife does still hold some significance in his self-identity.

I’m also wondering how we all feel about deleting the line “It is too late for me, son.” It seems way too telegraphed and kind of gives away Vader’s turn (as does “It is pointless to resist”). Just having Vader stand at the window is enough to get the point across. Adywan hinted at incorporating some dialogue tweaks and I think these would be solid tweaks, along with deleting the whole “jealous Han” subplot that gets all of two scenes and gets cut out of most ROTJ edits (e.g., Darth Rush, who handled it pretty well).

“It is too late for me son”- I’ve always liked the way that line is delivered. It’s the first time we see any kind of crack in Vader’s veneer.