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Should Stanley Tookie Williams have been executed?

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who's to know for sure. he has always claimed his innocence. i honestly think he'd do better if he were alive, committed to his message of nonviolence and anti-gang literature.

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That's gang justice. You kill a member of my gang, I kill you. Has the United States sunk so low? Tookie admitted his guilt, and has served his time in pennance. That guilt will stay with him. Death is an escape. It's not closure, just moving the guilt.

It's sad that it has come to this.
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hmm what will killing him do, i think the choice should be given to the families of those whos loved ones died. those are the only people it will affect at this point and that is the bottem line. this whole thing of an eye for an eye, what does it solve, is murder solved with another death. now befoer you get on me you need to understand i am pro death penalty but if a person shows enough good in him that he can reform to the point of being nominated for a nobel peace prise, well hmm it just seems like a waste in this caste. sentance people that are clear lunitics to the death penalty. who is he hurting by staying alive in jail, on the contray he serves the role of decrease street violence, with books and jsut by the fact that someone might go, man if i do this i could be sentanced to life jsu tlike him that would suck. he is a prominate figure in jail and those are few and far between.
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Originally posted by: sybeman
That's gang justice. You kill a member of my gang, I kill you. Has the United States sunk so low? Tookie admitted his guilt, and has served his time in pennance. That guilt will stay with him. Death is an escape. It's not closure, just moving the guilt.

It's sad that it has come to this.


Actually, he never admitted to doing anything.
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It's a shame that we have to be discussing this. The death penalty is a barbaric way of dealing with criminals and should only be used in the most extreme of circumstances (serial killers, child killers, etc.). I would have hoped society would have moved on from this type of lowest common denominator justice, but too many people out there thirst for vengeance.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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I used to be a staunch defender of capital punishment. However, my views on this have softened in the last few years. I'm beginning to lean more towards "restorative justice". Meaning a criminal needs to be punished for their actions, however they must also make restitution of some type to their victims, victim's family, and society. In terms of murder and capital felonies, I don't know what would bring restitution, but I don't think I believe in the death penalty any more.
Nemo me impune lacessit

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Originally posted by: ricardo
i honestly think he'd do better if he were alive, committed to his message of nonviolence and anti-gang literature. This will probably sound callous and harsh, but he can do good in death, by showing the people that if you need to suffer the consequences of your actions. No one in this world seems to want to take responsibility for what they do.
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Originally posted by: sybeman
That guilt will stay with him.
Interesting, they said on the news today that he showed no remorse.

I have the feeling I'm going to hear from all of you for this:

I am for the death penalty. In fact, I'm for making executions public (don't know exactly how...pay-per-view could help repay the state for the cost of incarceration) and for speeding the processing of death row inmates.

The death penalty should be a deterrant. By putting it behind closed doors and prolonging it by 20-30 years, the public feels detached from the crimes and the person that committed them. I think a lot of people simply don't understand the consequences because they don't see what things are like. Scared Straight had affects on a generation.

'Tookie' here was convicted in 1981, when I was 1 year old, the year Empire Strikes Back came out. It took almost 25 years for this to happen. I had never heard of the guy until recently when they started talking about this execution. Does his death mean anything to me? No, not really.
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For anyone who's interested...an eyewitness account of the execution. It's affecting, regardless of your position on the issue.

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Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Does anyone know exactly what kind of evidence they have that proves Williams is guilty of the crimes he was excuted for?
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Originally posted by: Warbler
Does anyone know exactly what kind of evidence they have that proves Williams is guilty of the crimes he was excuted for?


I don't know for sure, but I believe he was identified by eyewitnesses.

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Originally posted by: sean wookie
Well he was in a gang ain't that enough proof.

Not for me, and certainly shouldn't be enough for a court of law. Being is a gang doesn't automatically make you a murderer. Also just because he is in a gang doesn't necessarily mean he is the specific gang member that murdered the people he was convicted of murdering. I just wish to know, how sure we are that he is guilty.

Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: Warbler
Does anyone know exactly what kind of evidence they have that proves Williams is guilty of the crimes he was excuted for?


I don't know for sure, but I believe he was identified by eyewitnesses.


how sure were the eyewitnesses? how trust worthy were the eyewitnesses?
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1. In regards to the 4 specific murders, he described to others the gurgling sound his victims' bodies made after he shot them. The shotgun shells were shown to be fired from a shotgun he had purchased. 2 deaths were robberies. 2 deaths were him getting rid of witnesses.

2. As a co-founder of the crips, he could be considered responsible for the thousands of deaths in crip-related violence over the years.
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What if instead of being executed, the person was made to work as a slave for the rest of their lives in jobs people don't want, like finding explosive mines. OK forget the exploding mines bit, was a joke, but seriously, why waste that person? Put him to work with NO pay into some serious manual labor. At least he will be useful and very cheap.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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The fact he maintained his innocence even when confessing would save his life says to me that either he doesn't value even his own life, or that he wasn't really guilty. Hm.

I really can't say whether I'm for or against it, because I tend to only support the death penalty in cases that go above and beyond eliminating reasonable doubt and eliminate all PLAUSIBLE doubt.

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OK, call me weird, but I saw the title for this thread again, and I completely forgot what it was about, even though I just posted on it, and for a second thought JONH WILLIAMS was to be executed. So I was wondering why he deserved such cruel fate, and then I remembered what it was about.

Nonetheless, if John Williams ever gets the death penalty for something, his method will be stabbing a flute into his heart. And as he dies, a weak sound of the first notes of the star wars theme will come through the flute, as of a bit of blood.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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....


oO

....


Spoken like a true romantic, Ric.

A true, macabre romantic.

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Thank you, thank you... thank you for not shooting me! I'll be here all week! Cleaning, so we'll re-open monday! I can sense the hostility now, so I am OUT of here! *drops microphone, runs away *
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I am against the death penalty. However, this guy was convicted of a crime in a court of law and recieved a sentence. What he done agter, no matter how good, should not affect that sentence. This was a bad dude who done bad things and made the world a worse place. Whatevr he did after to try and make up for it, good for him, but that shouldn't mean he should be let off. Like I said, I don't believe in the death penalty, but that's not the point.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
OK, call me weird, but I saw the title for this thread again, and I completely forgot what it was about, even though I just posted on it, and for a second thought JONH WILLIAMS was to be executed. So I was wondering why he deserved such cruel fate, and then I remembered what it was about.

Nonetheless, if John Williams ever gets the death penalty for something, his method will be stabbing a flute into his heart. And as he dies, a weak sound of the first notes of the star wars theme will come through the flute, as of a bit of blood.


I thought the same thing when I first saw the title of this thread, and I wondered if I was in the right forum! And then I opened the page and saw the poll. And I was wondering, "Geez, what did he do?! Is this about him not getting picked up to do the music for Goblet of Fire?" But that was a pretty interesting idea for a John Williams execution. Creepy but fun.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I have changed the name of the thread to make it more clear what the thread was about and to make it clear that no one was considering executing John Williams.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
What if instead of being executed, the person was made to work as a slave for the rest of their lives in jobs people don't want, like finding explosive mines. OK forget the exploding mines bit, was a joke, but seriously, why waste that person? Put him to work with NO pay into some serious manual labor. At least he will be useful and very cheap.


Yes, but then your bleeding-heart, prisoners' rights advocates will claim that you're dehumanizing him. *rolls eyes*

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.