There's no need for a bombardment by that stage.
I've been watching the 1980 edition of empire. Its so good. I'm glad Adywan is making his edit like this one.
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AxiaEuxine said:Umm my whole post was just kind of a joke, very little needs to be done with the battle of Hoth.
Ah... whoops ^_^
rcb said:
after the sheilds down should there be a bombardment since its mentioned.
Wouldn't that be rather stupid as the empire is already down there? They would be bombarding themselves...
ImperialFighter said:First, an admission! - In hindsight, my wish above to still have Adywan's enhanced reveal shot of nine AT-AT's on show at the beginning was just plain wrong!....because the shot does not fit in as comfortably as I first thought, after all.
On checking out the whole scene a couple of times since then, it actually doesn't make sense to include it anymore, if Ady has indeed decided not to include any extra additional AT-AT's throughout the whole battle now. The fact is that we only see two AT-AT's destroyed, and only see three (including General Veer's one) survive the snowspeeder / Luke Skywalker onslaught throughout, with what does indeed seem like only a sum total of five AT-AT's (not counting the AT-ST) onscreen during the scenes on show.
Therefore, I now hope Ady just uses the original, unenhanced shot of only five AT-AT's coming over the ridge at the start, if he is leaving the actual numbers during the battle as they are. (I've really come round to the removal of the 'red' window glow now, as it seems be too big for the narrow slit of the front AT-AT it was placed on anyway!)
Personally, I'm more than okay with his latest decision not to add more AT-AT's, as the actual imagery already looks great in the main, and it's a huge ask to expect the work that extra numbers would involve at the end of the day. Anyway, as Luke comments at one point "That armour's too strong for blasters"- which indicates the AT-AT's are thought to be mostly impervious to the likes of Rebel snowspeeder fire-power, so the Empire could be confident that five of them (plus an AT-ST) is more than sufficient to reach the Power Generator.
And on the other hand, more could have been planned (or have been in transit) to be sent down also, in an unseen-by-us 'follow-up wave' to support this first batch at the end of the day, since General Veers tells Vader's hologram "Yes Lord Vader, I've reached the main Power Generators. The Shield will be down in moments, you may start your landing."
We didn't see if he came in another AT-AT or 'something else' at the end of the day, since the ground battle cuts to different scenes involving our heroes in-between when that line is said, and when the eventual storming of the Rebel base by Vader and some Imperial Snowtroopers is shown.
For anyone concerned that there would have been more AT-AT numbers dropped down, it is possible that they arrived from a different direction / or directions to the oncoming 5 AT-AT's we see onscreen. The Rebel base is actually quite big and cavernous overall, with various potential escape routes, so 'another wave / or other waves' from the many Stardestroyers could conceivably have been dropped 'beyond' the Energy Shield to approach the base from another direction / or other directions too, and we just weren't shown that one / or those ones!
On the other hand, after General Veers line, Vader and his troops could simply just have arrived in 'something else' from the same direction as the 5 onscreen AT-AT's, during the time when our attention was following the in-between scenes where we followed our heroe's progress before the base was stormed.... Take your pick. Either way, I hope that helps.
Regardless, there's no doubt that Adywan will add a lot of little bells and whistles and improvements throughout the existing footage, which will indeed add to the overall 'intensity' of the battle, and that it will end up looking better. :)
As far as extra AT-ST's go, if he wants to do that, then fine, but the one we see doesn't appear until a good bit later in the battle anyway, suggesting that it might have just been 'dropped off' further back than the rest, and has only caught up now with it's faster moving steps... Just another thought.
Hope everyone had a good time last night. :)
I just wanted to elaborate on a couple of things I wrote in yesterday's post on the previous page. It only occurred to me just afterwards, but I'd hit the booze by then... Thankfully, I'm pretty hangover-free today after it all, so thought I'd add those extra thoughts to my post.
I've highlighted the relevant new additions above in bold. See what you think.
JediMasterFisher said:I've been watching the 1980 edition of empire. Its so good. I'm glad Adywan is making his edit like this one.
how is this edit 'like' the original?
the whole point is to make plenty of changes to 'fix' the original.
especially, if you look at the list of all the changes.
that's a statment that isn't clear, logically looking at it.
that's like saying EP4:R is 'like' the original EP4, which it wasn't.
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
ChainsawAsh said:I think the most that needs to be done is adding in a couple shots of AT-STs going ahead of the AT-ATs to take care of the Rebels in trenches. I've always wondered why they didn't do that - send the smaller AT-STs ahead to make way for the big AT-ATs.
SImple: budget. George and company no doubt wanted to do more, but being 1980 and the limits on technology and what money they had to spend, could only offer what we see. That doesn't mean anybody should overload the film with anything, but let's all remember the whole point of the SEs to begin with was Lucas' attempt to bring them "up to date".
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negative1 said:JediMasterFisher said:I've been watching the 1980 edition of empire. Its so good. I'm glad Adywan is making his edit like this one.
how is this edit 'like' the original?
the whole point is to make plenty of changes to 'fix' the original.
especially, if you look at the list of all the changes.
that's a statment that isn't clear, logically looking at it.
that's like saying EP4:R is 'like' the original EP4, which it wasn't.
later
-1
I mean its going to be more like the original then the SE 0r the DVD because "bring my shuttle" and the cool Boba Fett voice are back. Stuff like that.
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Monroville said:ChainsawAsh said:I think the most that needs to be done is adding in a couple shots of AT-STs going ahead of the AT-ATs to take care of the Rebels in trenches. I've always wondered why they didn't do that - send the smaller AT-STs ahead to make way for the big AT-ATs.
SImple: budget. George and company no doubt wanted to do more, but being 1980 and the limits on technology and what money they had to spend, could only offer what we see. That doesn't mean anybody should overload the film with anything, but let's all remember the whole point of the SEs to begin with was Lucas' attempt to bring them "up to date".
On the other hand, those suggested foremost AT-ST's still weren't added to the later SE versions. Perhaps because that was never an option, because they would detract from the reveal of the wonderful scale of the more gigantic AT-AT designs? ...and because the AT-AT's themselves were not exactly thought to have needed the smaller AT-ST's to clear a way for them, since they were considered to be mostly impervious to the Rebel's firepower, and pretty overpowering themselves.
There weren't any Imperial troops out on battlefield running around either. No need. Cozy in their AT-AT.
Well i can see the AT-AT debate still rages on. lol. Looks like i've got a lot of catching up to do. I'll reply to things that have been said a bit later when i get some spare time. But for now....
This is a clip i was hoping to post for Christmas but i didn't get a chance to finish it because of getting the damn flu. I have tweaked Yoda a bit. I've stuck to just the mouth movements because i don't feel the face needs anything. I have just tried to sync the lip movement more with what he is speaking.
Enjoy, and a Happy new Year
YODA TWEAKED -17mb approx XVID (link changed to the final video post)
OOOH VIDEO!! Downloading now, cant wait to see it.
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"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
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Nice, subtle, that's all Yoda needs. Good job.
Happy new year everyone!
Nice work, I think Yoda's eyelids could use a bit of subtle work, they just dont move unless theres a perspective change. It's distracting.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
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Well, as long as we're still discussing the AT-ATs, I might as well sound off my own minority report. For what it's worth, Ady, I thought your test clip with added AT-ATs was really, really good. The more I think about it, the more it seems a bit absurd that the galactic empire sends in a grand total of five AT-ATs to take down its most serious adversary. It's not that the original composition is flawed per se; it's just that I found the added AT-ATs to be an improvement.
My two cents. Take it or leave it. :)
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Fantastic Work Ady, Yoda seems much more lifelike, In fact it's better than the PT. Also thumbs up on the color correction. (Here is the Youtube link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRH1yzUCSFg
About this "AT-AT problem", did you ever complain before, did you even notice or care, way should you now. For me, I never questioned the number of AT-At's. It just was. I guess I don't have any more to say that has'nt (oops) already been said.
After all, are crafter is Adywan.
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adywan said:Well i can see the AT-AT debate still rages on. lol. Looks like i've got a lot of catching up to do. I'll reply to things that have been said a bit later when i get some spare time. But for now....
This is a clip i was hoping to post for Christmas but i didn't get a chance to finish it because of getting the damn flu. I have tweaked Yoda a bit. I've stuck to just the mouth movements because i don't feel the face needs anything. I have just tried to sync the lip movement more with what he is speaking.
Enjoy, and a Happy new Year
That's awesome, Ady. I think Yoda could use some subtle eyelid movement, but otherwise it's perfect!
Also, I think maybe he should move his eyes a bit more in certain scenes. Sometimes it kinda seems like his eyes are stuck facing forward. If you can subtly move his eyes a bit in these scenes, that would make him so much more lifelike.
Great job, Ady!
Well... keep in mind I'm just one person, but I think it makes it seem a little faker. Yoda doesn't need any work done on him. At least, I think so; right now, that kinda screams "let's do it because we can" - which is what was wrong with the original SEs.
To each his own of course. As always, the color correction is great.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
Some fine subtle work on Yoda's mouth movements there. :)
While the original puppet is mainly excellent in it's overall facial movements, and doesn't need any radical adjustments, it would be really neat to see just even one (or two) blink(s) throughout the likes of these long close-up scenes with him, to give even more life to the 'puppet' eyes, and tie-in with the multi-blinking cgi versions even more. Your Cantina characters were nicely subtle, and the effect dramatically improved things.
And loving the 'Adywanified' colour of things as usual.
Hmm, the extra mouth movements sometimes make the rest of Yoda's face look static. It's still interesting to see though.
But I'm not sure if I like this new Yoda. There's no denying it looks more "real" now, but I've known Yoda as a puppet my entire life... he looks so different now, it jumps out to me. Yoda isn't a background character like the aliens in the cantina scene, he's a main character... I doubt changes to his look will ever be subtle.
EDIT: don't let that keep you from experimenting with it further though, maybe toning it down a bit might help...
Thanks for the clip Adywan. The clip looks amazing. I will mirror others comments about the eyes though. Do you plan on tweeking that as well? Regardless, I think the clip looks great, and thanks for the update. Happy 2009 :)
DarthBo said:Hmm, the extra mouth movements sometimes make the rest of Yoda's face look static. It's still interesting to see though.
Some work on the eyelids and eyes would probably help.
DarthBo said:
But I'm not sure if I like this new Yoda. There's no denying it looks more "real" now, but I've known Yoda as a puppet my entire life... he looks so different now, it jumps out to me. Yoda isn't a background character like the aliens in the cantina scene, he's a main character... I doubt changes to his look will ever be subtle.
I think what Ady did with Yoda is very subtle. However, there may be room for toning it down just a tiny, tiny bit.
bkev said:Well... keep in mind I'm just one person, but I think it makes it seem a little faker. Yoda doesn't need any work done on him. At least, I think so; right now, that kinda screams "let's do it because we can" - which is what was wrong with the original SEs.
To each his own of course. As always, the color correction is great.
I really don't think this is a "let's do it because we can" thing. It really elevates the reality of an alien character, without using obvious CGI. I'm all for it if it's a subtle change for the better.
I think the Yoda clip looks great. It's subtle, ameks him more realistic and doesn't look like an effect.
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bkev said:Well... keep in mind I'm just one person, but I think it makes it seem a little faker. Yoda doesn't need any work done on him. At least, I think so; right now, that kinda screams "let's do it because we can" - which is what was wrong with the original SEs.
To each his own of course. As always, the color correction is great.
Faker? well yoda does need a bit of work done to him. the thing that always screamed Puppet to me was the mouth movement. Its something i always wanted to tweak so it isn't in the same class as "doing it because i can". Anything i do to yoda is only going to be minor and subtle mouth tweaks. It's mainly certain words or letters that really make it look like a puppet so that's the only tweaking i'm going to do to yoda. i don't want to do anything to the face though. I did try to add subtle movements and blinks but that really didn't work and that looked too fake.
Monroville said:Yes, very nice. Thanks, Sev. :)
And nice to hear your thoughts on the number of AT-ATs, Ady. It does seem like more of a 'crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke' kind of arrogance only sending a few AT-ATs to get rid of all the Rebels.
With all due respect, that's a load of BS. Again, if the Empire is going to send a Super Star Destroyer and 10 to 12 regular Star Destroyers, why send an army of "5 friggin AT-ATs"?!?! Why not send ONE regular Star Destroyer ala the beginning of ANH if the Empire is that overconfident?
And how I ask can you "crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke" with 5 AT-ATs? That's like knocking down Mike Tyson with one swift stroke... from Gary Coleman!
Look, I understand the visual clutter issue, but if the Empire has an ARMY they are going to use it. 5 AT-ATs does NOT constitute an army! Now what you CAN do to rectify that is another issue. Also, if you want just 5 AT-ATs, that's what the OT is all about and Ady's HD torrents. Granted, there has to be some logic to whatever changes are made, but I thought the whole point of this was to have fun and go for the gold when it comes to "special editionalizing" these things?
why is that BS? The At-At's were only sent down to knock out the shield generator. They weren't sent to wipe out the rebels at all. The original assault was from the Stardestroyers and was supposed to be a surprise attack. The Empire is quite cocky about their superiority over the rebels so i really don't think they would have sent a whole attack force down there just to destroy a shield. The Stardestroyers became a blockade and they were confident that they could stop all the escaping rebel ships.
And you have got the whole point of the Revisited edits totally wrong. They were never going to be "going for gold when it comes to special editionising" the movies at all. That's just turns it into an edit that does add things just because it looks good and because it can be done. Some things don't need to be changed while others do. it was only ever supposed to be a colour correction and continuity fixing project but it grew when i learned how to do the FX work. The battle of Yavin got an overhaul because it was supposed to be a fight for their lives and needed that grander scale. Now the hoth battle isn't the same. Vader wants Luke alive. He isn't going to send down a whole attack force that could probably wipe out the rebels completely and Luke along with them.
I'm sticking to the original number of 5. I've changed the rear 2 At-At's in the opening shot and i have them more animated as they are just motionless in the original. There are other ways i can intensify the battle without having to add more AT-At's or any AT-ST's for that matter too. I might take them out completely anyway. The one shot we see of an AT-ST is completely out of proportion to the AT-AT when we see it walking past . Its way too high up the screen and looks like its floating off the ground. It should be much lower down in ratio to the AT-AT. Adding any AT-ST's is impossible to do without either making a model and film it in stop motion or get someone to make a CG model and animate it to match the stop motion effect of the models.
Which brings me nicely to my next item....
I am now looking for anyone who can do CG rendered mattes that can perfectly match the CG cloud city buildings seen in the SE. I only need a few mattes done and they would all be still shots but i want to replace the original matte paintings.
I also need someone who has enough time to do some CG work i need doing of some fighters etc.
Hopefully someone knows someone that can help with these. But they do have to be movie quality though and have to know what they are doing.
Josh said:Fantastic Work Ady, Yoda seems much more lifelike, In fact it's better than the PT. Also thumbs up on the color correction. (Here is the Youtube link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRH1yzUCSFg
About this "AT-AT problem", did you ever complain before, did you even notice or care, way should you now. For me, I never questioned the number of AT-At's. It just was. I guess I don't have any more to say that has'nt (oops) already been said.
If you're addressing me, I didn't say it was a major problem at all; just that - having seen both the original version and Ady's test clip with more AT-ATs - the additional AT-AT shots are a visual and tactical improvement over the original, in my opinion. In the end, as you said, it's Ady's call. I'll be satisfied either way...
Furthermore, the new Yoda tweaks look great. I'll second the suggestion that a little eye-blinkage might be a nice addition as well if it could be pulled off without looking too jarring. :)
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Josh said:Fantastic Work Ady, Yoda seems much more lifelike, In fact it's better than the PT. Also thumbs up on the color correction. (Here is the Youtube link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRH1yzUCSFg
About this "AT-AT problem", did you ever complain before, did you even notice or care, way should you now. For me, I never questioned the number of AT-At's. It just was. I guess I don't have any more to say that has'nt (oops) already been said.
After all, are crafter is Adywan.
My feeling on the AT-AT debate is not so much about whether or not any of us complained about how the scene was before. I never complained about the original Death Star reveal in A New Hope, or how R2-D2's light was only 1 color, or that the final battle didn't show Yavin in the background, etc., etc.
But looking at Revisited now, I absolutely love the changes he made, and I think we can all agree that the changes Adywan made to the Death Star battle, and the film as a whole, not only fixed a multitude of continuity errors, but also enhanced the viewing experience to the point where it felt as it did the first time we saw Star Wars. Continuity changes aside, most of the changes and additional shots added to the Death Star battle were not absolutely necessary, but sure did improve upon what was already there, and made the entire battle more intense because of it.
I believe the same holds true for the Hoth battle. I don't think the film would be hurt at all if Adywan decides to leave the number of AT-ATs to the original 5. However, I also feel that additional AT-ATs could certainly enhance the battle, and it does make sense to me that the Empire would send more than 5 walkers, especially since Vader knew that the Rebels were already aware of the Empire's arrival thanks to Admiral Ozzel bringing the fleet out of hyperspace too close to Hoth. It seems to me that after sending probe droids and Star Destroyers all over the galaxy searching for the Rebels, and now after finding them they are already alerted to their sneak attack, the Empire would cetainly take no chances, and hit them full force. I would certainly think that they would send more than 5 AT-ATs to do the job.
As far as the new clip of Yoda, I think it looks great. The mouth moves very realistically to me. The movements seem subtle, but make a difference. I think that this could work out well, because you get the best of both worlds: because Yoda is a puppet in TESB, he already looks very good. With some minor facial tweaks, I think that it could truly bring him to life. I agree that some minor work with the eyes could also help, if Adywan decides to go this route with Yoda.
