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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 72

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I love the interruption part.  It's incredible some of the ideas people have.  Thanks, GM!

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darthatton said:

Nice clip, GM. I don't know if this has been suggested before, but why not use Ian's voice from the Musical Journey DVD? He says "Luke" quite a few times, if I can remember.

EDIT: Is it me, or is the Emperor's voice way too clear? To me, it seems like there should be at least some sound distortion in the hologram.

 

Nice catch about the word "Luke." Regarding messing with the hologram to make it lower quality (than the one Ady showed us in his teaser):

It's bad enough that he's getting poor reception (the whole point of moving out of the asteroid field was to get a "clear signal"), now it's got to be distorted too?

Listen I like the "bad tech" of the SW universe as much as the next person, but not every hologram needs to be equally crappy and the effects can be overdone.


Emperor: We have a new enemy... *crackle spark*

Vader: Pardon me, my master, but you're breaking up... (*plays with rabbit ears*) ah there we are

Emperor: As I was saying... we have a new enemy, Lu--


Vader: Oops, there it is again, hold on, I'll get it this time

Emperor: But I was coming in clear!

Vader: Stop moving! Now you're the wrong color (*fiddles with knobs*)

Emperor: The guy at Best Buy told me this thing would work perfectly!


Vader: Did you pay extra for the service plan?

Emperor: Yes, but...

Vader: Sigh. That means you have to send it back after they charge you a fee just to look at it, it's a scam, my master!

Emperor: Bloody hell! They will pay for this outr--*static*

Vader: Sorry, what was that? I think I've lost your signal. Ooh, look, I'm picking up "Celebrity Circus"!

===

 

Anyway, Lucas made a big mistake changing the dialog. It was perfect before... as "fun" as these tweaks are, I think it should stay as it was.


Vader saying "How is that possible" just stinks (second only to his lines in Episode III). At this point in the film we don't need him sounding weak and confused in front of the Emperor even if it is just "an act." It was just the right balance in 1980.

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Remember folks, the "Rule of 2" didn't exist until Episode I was written. Who is to say it's still in effect now 24 years after the Jedi were destroyed and the Sith have taken power to "rule the galaxy"? There's no need for the rule anymore. When Palpatine is saying he would be a great asset he's not implying he's going to replace Vader or himself... he's saying there will be three! If you want to get even more nerdy, in the Expanded Universe both Palpatine and Vader had dark side apprentices during the OT era. This "well you have to constantly be trying to kill your master to advance in rank" thing is pure BS.

The original intention of the scene has always been that the Emperor is scared of Luke's increasing power, he wants Luke dead. Vader knows very well he has a son and wants that son for himself. So he persuades the Emperor to let him turn him to the dark side, to keep Luke alive. Vader's secret plan to use Luke might be a ruse, or it might be Vader's own ambition. Let's for once see the Emperor not totally in control, manipulating everything with plans within plans within plans (like in the Prequel trilogy). ESB is not the Emperor's movie, it's Vader's. Let him have his moment and be in control, even while this shadowy boss is now being mentioned.

 

Yes, by ROTJ, Palpatine wants Vader turned and the relationship is starting to get ambigious, but not because Palpatine wanted Vader dead all along. He doesn't possibly suspect anything until "I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear." I frankly think the idea that these men have been working together for 24 years with loaded guns pressed to each other's heads the whole time is just stupid. Why can't bad guys be loyal and then later events start to shift those loyalties? I don't think it's a problem to have the Emperor one step behind Vader until the very very end. He's not infallible.

 

Palpatine trying to replace Vader later on in ROTJ is just a spur of the moment thing. Vader has been beaten and he's so enthralled with Luke's demonstration of power, that he just wants him to take the next step (killing a downed foe in a fit of rage, and obeying the Emperor's command would push him over the edge and into the Emperor's control as a dark side minion). It's not because "its the Sith way to try to destroy ourselves constantly." So people take it too far. There's no real need for a contradiction. Just say the rule of 2 served its purpose and now it's over with. Remember, even in the Episode I novelization where all this new backstory is created for the Sith, the original Sith had thousands of members, and that was when they were fighting the Jedi (there's no Jedi to oppose them now, and no infighting). It's just that good force talent is hard to find these days...

 

As for Palpatine's "180 degree turn" in this thought... in the 1980 performance it is much more believable because when he says "yes... yes" it sounds like he's really thinking about it and liking the idea more and more. In the 2004 edition the way he says it is just like he's like "okay, whatever..." almost like Vader has hyponotized him for a second there or something. Not much that can be done with his voice though I don't think.

The "interrupting clip" while a neat idea, I think again just diminishes the scene. The lines were so good to begin with, to have any of this sort of thing is just off. The Emperor's character has already been established. The only time he ever interrupts somebody is in Episode II where he finishes Padme's line for her. Clever, but I think it just further tarnishes the scene to try to do more with it than is already there. The only thing that really "needs" to be changed is to make the hologram actually look like the Emperor we all know and love (ROTJ) and sound like the actor who portrays him. Adywan was on the right track with his teaser. He just needs to do the side view and the rest of the (1980) lines. If he says "Luke" it's already better than the previous attempts at doing this scene with the original lines in Ian's voice.

 

My 2 cents.

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I thought of a couple more suggestions last night, but I can only remember one of them right now:

The Falcon could use a more dynamic flight path as its leaving the Space Slug.

I'll edit this if I remember the other one...

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GoodMusician said:

I wonder how he learned Luke's Full name... I don't remember it being mentioned in ANH... in fact... save for about 10 seconds of Leia screaming "Luke it's too late!" as he kicked some old man clothes on the floor, he never heard the boys name lol...

 

Leia: "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

Luke: "Huh? Oh the uniform! I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you."

Now that the old Emperor dialogue has been changed, this is the only time you hear his entire name in the whole trilogy.

 

And I think that he'd be pretty famous after destroying the Death Star.  In a cut scene, Red Leader actually says that he knew his father.  The name Skywalker is pretty famous from the Clone Wars and after destroying the Death Star,  Luke's name as the son of Anakin Skywalker, hero of the Clone Wars, must have resonated throughout the galaxy.  It's hard to remember that these characters aren't in a bubble that we the fans of the movies are.

 

If once you start down the dark path... wear comfortable shoes.

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I wonder how he learned Luke's Full name... I don't remember it being mentioned in ANH... in fact... save for about 10 seconds of Leia screaming "Luke it's too late!" as he kicked some old man clothes on the floor, he never heard the boys name lol...

 

Leia: "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

Luke: "Huh? Oh the uniform! I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you."

Now that the old Emperor dialogue has been changed, this is the only time you hear his entire name in the whole trilogy.

 

I think he was saying the Death Star hangar scene was the only time Vader had a chance to hear Luke's name, first or last, in A New Hope.

And doesn't Luke say his full name in his message to Jabba in ROTJ? I think Bib Fortuna says it too.

In any event, I agree that in the time between films, Vader, the Emperor, and pretty much the whole galaxy would have heard Luke's name - blowing up the Death Star would surely make him famous...

 

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GoodMusician, I think the line "How is that possible" should be cut. It stands out too much from the rest of Vader's dialogue, and it wouldn't affect the conversation.

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Having just managed to look at your clip GoodMusician its an interesting idea, with the interuption and everything, but the line "how is that possible" is so obvious that it was recorded at a different time it stands out. PLus i've never liked the new line "the young rebel..". I still think that returning the whole conversation to its original wording is the way i will be going and eliminating all of the new lines.

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adywan said:

I still think that returning the whole conversation to its original wording is the way i will be going and eliminating all of the new lines.

Oooooo! It'll be neat to see how close you can get it to the original. Percentage-wise, how close do you think you can get to 100%?

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Oh yeah.... Luke Skywalker.  Jedi Knight and Friend of Captain Solo..... I stand corrected.  But that still doesn't distill the argument that he would be famous.

 

If once you start down the dark path... wear comfortable shoes.

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Not to beat a dead horse here, but it seems Lucas created the new Vader and Palpatines lines to forshadow the big reveal later in the movie.


EMPEROR: We have a new enemy, the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
VADER: How is that possible?
EMPEROR: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us.

VADER: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
LUKE: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.
VADER: No. I am your father.
LUKE: No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!
VADER: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

I think that the idea behind the new dialogue is interesting, but the wording along with Ian's delivery don't make the SE change an improvement to the original.

 

Beating done.

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Adywan, I ask you to reconsider using GM's idea. I bet the difference in delivery for "How is that possible" can be fixed, after seeing the improvements in Vader's voice in SW-R.

I really like GM's proposed dialog. The interruption is great, as well as the use of Palpatine's "Lord Vader" in an almost condescending manner. The original dialog was great at the time, but I think it needs to be updated to match what we now know of Palpatine's scheming personality. A shot of Palpatine sitting in his office afterwards grinning to himself would be the icing on the cake!

As far as the rule of two, let's look at what's in the movies (forget the novelizations and all the other EU crap). The only people that we see who are aware of the rule are Yoda and Mace. From that scene in TPM (I'm going from memory here), it's not even clear if Mace was aware before Yoda said anything. My point is, it may not be common knowledge for the Jedi, and Anakin may not even be aware of it. So Vader's desire to make his son an "ally" - as far as he knows - may not be an outright declaration of war on Palpatine. Regardless of whether Palpatine knows of the rule (he probably does), he's now just had a revelation that Luke could be a good replacement for Vader. If you think about it, why would Vader hand over his son to the Emperor in ROTJ if he KNOWS of the rule of two? Why would he willingly send his replacement to the Emperor?

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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I personally think the "rule of two" is dumb as hell, and all references to it should be cut by Adywan when he gets to the prequels.

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ChainsawAsh said:

I personally think the "rule of two" is dumb as hell, and all references to it should be cut by Adywan when he gets to the prequels.

 

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Sluggo said:

Not to beat a dead horse here, but it seems Lucas created the new Vader and Palpatines lines to forshadow the big reveal later in the movie.


EMPEROR: We have a new enemy, the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
VADER: How is that possible?
EMPEROR: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us.

VADER: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
LUKE: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.
VADER: No. I am your father.
LUKE: No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!
VADER: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

I think that the idea behind the new dialogue is interesting, but the wording along with Ian's delivery don't make the SE change an improvement to the original.

 

Beating done.

 

I agree that it does have nice symmetry, and it would work well, if not for the earlier reveal that Vader is already “obsessed” with Luke. In fact, if you think it about it too hard (which we all clearly have) it starts to seem like the evil Emperor, who meticulously plotted his rise to power, started an intergalactic war to help him along and even (possibly) manipulated the Force into conceiving his own apprentice, has clearly lost a step or two if it takes him three years to find out who blew up his big 20-year long construction project a couple days after it was finished!

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joshua77 said:

 

I agree that it does have nice symmetry, and it would work well, if not for the earlier reveal that Vader is already “obsessed” with Luke. In fact, if you think it about it too hard (which we all clearly have) it starts to seem like the evil Emperor, who meticulously plotted his rise to power, started an intergalactic war to help him along and even (possibly) manipulated the Force into conceiving his own apprentice, has clearly lost a step or two if it takes him three years to find out who blew up his big 20-year long construction project a couple days after it was finished!

 

LOL.  Yes, clearly Palpatine isn't as sharp as he used to be.

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doubleofive said:

joshua77 said:

 

...clearly lost a step or two if it takes him three years to find out who blew up his big 20-year long construction project a couple days after it was finished!

 

LOL. Yes, clearly Palpatine isn't as sharp as he used to be.


Heh...reminds me of the Robot Chicken sketch...you all know the one.

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Nice, simple.  But where did you get "young Skywalker"?  It fits in so well!

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adywan said:

Ok, here's something i just threw together to demonstrate the route i will be taking for the Emperor scene. its very rough and needs tweaking but you'll be able to see what i'm trying to accomplish

EMPEROR TEST mp3

 

I like it.

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I'll have to wait until I get home from work to see it, but I hope it goes something like this:

 

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: Darth, I was just wondering, have you heard from Tarkin lately? He hasn’t called me in ages. He still working on that Dark Star project of his?

VADER: I beg your pardon, my master?

EMPEROR: You know, that space station with the big laser on it.

VADER: Master… the Death Star was destroyed three years ago.

EMPEROR: Oh, right, right… Well. Pity about that. Let’s build another, shall we?

VADER: Yes, master.

EMPEROR: Just how did that Death Star get destroyed, by the way?

VADER: A young Rebel named Luke Skywalker, master… it was on the news.

EMPEROR: Oh, well, I was watching Matlock re-runs. Skywalker, you say? What is he, a relative of yours? Cousin or something?

VADER: He’s just a boy.

EMPEROR: Well, bring him on over to the dark side anyway, will you?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.

EMPEROR: Before you go, be a good Sith and fetch my slippers, would you?

VADER: Master… I’m thousands of light years away…

EMPEROR: Oh, right, right. Holograms, right. What will they think of next? Mas! Mas, my slippers!

VADER: … sigh.

 

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i must admit adys mix will probably fit alot better, i like how he has salvaged the conversation to return it to how it felt originally. though for the sake of GMs version, would ady consider putting it as an extra perhaps? i think its innovation and originality deserves remembrance. even though GMs input may not actually be generally accepted i like the ideas and at least it brings up constructive debate.

i look forward to seeing the emperors new hood!:)

 

any thoughts on having shots of the emperor in the flesh talking to a holographic vader, or is that a bit too distracting?