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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - AVAILABLE NOW — Page 215

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Adywan, I have a question.  At the end of Empire when the Mellenium Falcon is trying to escape the star destroyer, it seems to get really, really close, and yet it's out of tractor beam range.  Are you planning to do something about this?  Or can something even BE done about it???

Otherwise looking good man!

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vaderios said:

It seems ImpFighter that the Executor has enough big ass to be a bit on screen :)

First i tryied to be closest the the angle/camera/position with the render of this shot:

You can see it,

 

and secondly i find something interesting...( maybe wrong)

it seems that Mr vader isnt standing in one position during the falcon pursuit.

The window that he is talking to luke is the no 3 in this^ image

so i assume that when he sees the falcon enters to hyperspace we see him in the center window, so he was walking during this conv.

 

Fingers crossed :)

 

-Angel

 

vaderios, I've now had a chance to look at your examples above, which have led me to some other things during that sequence, that I didn't realise before....and that I can't believe that I never picked-up on before.  But it's another write-up that's a little complicated to do, so I'll need to come back to it.  I'm not sure that Vader was actually looking out of the window you think he is though, and I'll go into why shortly.

As far as seeing the hull from our vantagepoint inside, I can only say that I still think it's a subjective 'perspective' issue, as far as all the 'window' views we see are concerned. 

What I mean is, that for me anyway, the level of all the 'camera angles' show a view that I'm content to believe are correct ones, when seeing 'straight-ahead' from those camera positions, out of what is supposed to be a higher-up 'Bridge' Tower.

(I've posted 2 examples in my post immediately above this one, that give a better indication of just how much of an angle the 'Executor's' hull 'slants downwards', and 'away' from our higher 'Bridge' Tower position). 

It's subjective I think, about exactly how you view the 'camera angles' that have been used to shoot the 'interior' shots, and I'm in the 'straight-ahead, not downwards in any way' camp.  In fact, when it comes to some of these trickier-to-judge 'vanishing point' perspectives, there's a case to be made that the 'camera positions' are meant to give the impression of things being seen from a 'slightly lower than straight-ahead' position, even.  That's why I can easily believe that we'd only see the 'starfield'....and none of the ship below us.

But that is only my own way of looking at these 'window' views, and Adywan may be looking at them in a similar way to you.

 

 

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Ok ImpFighter :)

 

Also i made this matte in my free time hopefuly to help Ady.

I hope it works

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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ImperialFighter said:
vaderios said:

It seems ImpFighter that the Executor has enough big ass to be a bit on screen :)

First i tryied to be closest the the angle/camera/position with the render of this shot:

You can see it,

 

and secondly i find something interesting...( maybe wrong)

it seems that Mr vader isnt standing in one position during the falcon pursuit.

The window that he is talking to luke is the no 3 in this^ image

so i assume that when he sees the falcon enters to hyperspace we see him in the center window, so he was walking during this conv.

 

Fingers crossed :)

 

-Angel

 

vaderios, I've now had a chance to look at your examples above, which have led me to some other things during that sequence, that I didn't realise before....and that I can't believe that I never picked-up on before.  But it's another write-up that's a little complicated to do, so I'll need to come back to it.  I'm not sure that Vader was actually looking out of the window you think he is though, and I'll go into why shortly.

As far as seeing the hull from our vantagepoint inside, I can only say that I still think it's a subjective 'perspective' issue, as far as all the 'window' views we see are concerned.

What I mean is, that for me anyway, the level of all the 'camera angles' show a view that I'm content to believe are correct ones, when seeing 'straight-ahead' from those camera positions, out of what is supposed to be a higher-up 'Bridge' Tower.

(I've posted 2 examples in my post immediately above this one, that give a better indication of just how much of an angle the 'Executor's' hull 'slants downwards', and 'away' from our higher 'Bridge' Tower position).

It's subjective I think, about exactly how you view the 'camera angles' that have been used to shoot the 'interior' shots, and I'm in the 'straight-ahead, not downwards in any way' camp.  In fact, when it comes to some of these trickier-to-judge 'vanishing point' perspectives, there's a case to be made that the 'camera positions' are meant to give the impression of things being seen from a 'slightly lower than straight-ahead' position, even.  That's why I can easily believe that we'd only see the 'starfield'....and none of the ship below us.

But that is only my own way of looking at these 'window' views, and Adywan may be looking at them in a similar way to you.

 

 

The positioning would all depend on which version of the bridge tower was being used. The EU has named different Destroyers with different details as different classes in the fleet but chances are the majority of the variations were just down to the model makers not really expecting us to be going over each shot with a magnifying glass.

Hopefully my luck in posting links has changed for the better and you can all see this comparison of the various bridge pods?

Star Destroyer Bridge Pods

While the bottom one is labelled  Executor Bridge, the one above it has a domed protrusion which matches the window configuration of the interior set/matte.

That would place the control centre just above the centre of the pod.

There is a similar shape on the one labelled as being the Executor but that is in relation to the whole a lot smaller and higher up, which would make sense if the pod is larger than those on conventional Destroyer class ships (though I always assumed they were the same size).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Minor tangent, nothing to do with the visuals, but how do you say "Executor"?  I say it as "Execute-or", as in "capital punishment, killing a prisoner", but a friend of mine says it as "Exec-utor" as in "corporate executive, businessman".

Just curious how many people say it one way vs the other, since it wasn't said on film either way.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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Ziz said:

Minor tangent, nothing to do with the visuals, but how do you say "Executor"?  I say it as "Execute-or", as in "capital punishment, killing a prisoner", but a friend of mine says it as "Exec-utor" as in "corporate executive, businessman".

Just curious how many people say it one way vs the other, since it wasn't said on film either way.

It's Exec-cute-or, as in someone who carries out the will of someone else.

Someone who carries out capital punishment is called an executioner (which is arguably a better name for a Star Destroyer).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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vaderios said:

Ok ImpFighter :)

 

Also i made this matte in my free time hopefuly to help Ady.

I hope it works

-Angel

A good job at isolating the matte elements, it's just a shame that the original painting doesn't work so well with the live action (there is a similar problem with the Rebel hanger in ROTJ).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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if a whole new matt is to be made, i would like to see more of the ships, it took me ages to notice what was in the background in previous years. maybe a completely different angle would work?

 

how big are the transports supposed to be?

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Thats the point. I make this matte to help Ady to eliminate the matte lines around the actors ;)

No problem to make the ROTJ too ( if i have time :) )


-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Anyone remember the scene right before I talked to the Emperor's hologramme?

A Star Destroyer got DESTROYED by an asteroid, but that explosion it made looked like it was some kind of dust explosion underwater or so. What about that?

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Bingowings said:
Ziz said:

Minor tangent, nothing to do with the visuals, but how do you say "Executor"?  I say it as "Execute-or", as in "capital punishment, killing a prisoner", but a friend of mine says it as "Exec-utor" as in "corporate executive, businessman".

Just curious how many people say it one way vs the other, since it wasn't said on film either way.

It's Exec-cute-or, as in someone who carries out the will of someone else.

Someone who carries out capital punishment is called an executioner (which is arguably a better name for a Star Destroyer).

 

That's what I meant.  I always figured that "Exec-cute-or" was more in keeping with the Empire's mentality.

 

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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TheHelmetDork said:

Anyone remember the scene right before I talked to the Emperor's hologramme?

A Star Destroyer got DESTROYED by an asteroid, but that explosion it made looked like it was some kind of dust explosion underwater or so. What about that?

 

i thought it was just the communication getting knocked out? wasnt it just an asteroid hitting the ball thing?

 

would be cool having a huge asteroid smashing a star destroyer up though, perhaps they could be getting really big holes knocked into them as the film progresses?

 

btw vaderios, i didnt mean to sound like i was critiscisng the matts, youve done a great job isolating them.:) i liked the previous things with the window you did too.

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Hey Ady:
any chance of updating Page 1 with any changed plans or details?  I know someone else posted a link that was keeping track of all the changes as well as items brought up.  If someone could post that link, I will permanently link it to all of my messages (so everyone can click on it and see what's up every so often).

Also, any rough idea as far as a release date (spring - summer - fall)?  Just make sure to get it out before 2012 (damn mayans...)!

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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ben_danger said:
TheHelmetDork said:

Anyone remember the scene right before I talked to the Emperor's hologramme?

A Star Destroyer got DESTROYED by an asteroid, but that explosion it made looked like it was some kind of dust explosion underwater or so. What about that?

 

i thought it was just the communication getting knocked out? wasnt it just an asteroid hitting the ball thing?

 

would be cool having a huge asteroid smashing a star destroyer up though, perhaps they could be getting really big holes knocked into them as the film progresses?

 

btw vaderios, i didnt mean to sound like i was critiscisng the matts, youve done a great job isolating them.:) i liked the previous things with the window you did too.

Maybe, but I thought it looked a bit weird.

 

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Monroville said:

Hey Ady:
any chance of updating Page 1 with any changed plans or details?  I know someone else posted a link that was keeping track of all the changes as well as items brought up.  If someone could post that link, I will permanently link it to all of my messages (so everyone can click on it and see what's up every so often).

Monroville, I reckon you're refering to this thread that GoodMusician started.  Unfortunately it seems to have gone by the wayside a little, and I don't think it's been updated in quite a while now.  I just missed out in offering to do the updates at the time, as GM just nipped in before me. 

However, there are quite a few ideas missing from that page, and there has also been quite a lot of new stuff that Adywan has already been confirmed as having either completed, or is now attempting to do since then, also.  I've been taking a note of what I've seen done along the way since that list was laid out though....  :)  Perhaps GM's been a bit tied up recently.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Adywans-ESB-edit-Suggestion-Terminal/topic/9477/

 

 TheHelmetDork -  You'll be pleased to know that Adywan is covering that on item 52 of his page 1 list of 'to do's'.

 

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Adywan, I was hoping to post a few little AT-AT-related things today, but since taking a look at the various points of the recent post by vaderios, I've discovered a couple of troublesome things with the 'Vader on 'Executor' Bridge' shots in general, that I wanted to get out of the way first, while it's fresh in my mind.  You are probably aware of most of this, even though I wasn't (I previously just 'went with the flow of the action', and didn't notice), but it turns out to be a whole new 'continuity' nightmare, lol!!

 

I don't have screenshots for everyone here at the moment, unfortunately, so I will just be able to give PAL timings/descriptions of where the issues in question are, as I go through them -

At 1:52:17, we see Vader first enter the 'Executor's' Bridge, and walk towards the 'alcove' section on the right-hand side, where Admiral Piett is.  (note the bottom-section of the 'Bridge' entrance that Vader's cloak brushes against at the start of the shot, as I'll come back to it)

At 1:52:22, we see a side-on 'close-up' of Admiral Piett and Vader standing beside the smaller side-windows in the 'alcove' section (as seen above in the top shot of vaderios' post), as Vader starts to say "Did your men deactivate the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon?"

At 1:52:27, we see a frontal 'close-up' of Vader's mask, with his back to an 'array of lights' (note the big red round one, as I'll come back to it) inside the 'alcove' section, as he says "Good.  Prepare the boarding party, and set your weapons for 'Stun'."  (he then turns to look out of the smaller windows beside him, as the scene ends at 1:52:33)

Then we cut to an approx. minute-long mixture of 'Falcon crew antics' as they continue to be chased from underneath Bespin City, which culminates in the Millennium Falcon being chased towards the middle of the side-on 'Executor' in the distance by 3 closely-firing TIEs, before it veers off to the right towards the general direction of the front of the 'Executor'....

At 1:53:01, we now cut back to Vader, who has now moved forward in the intervening minute, to look out of a bigger window on the Bridge (as seen above in the second-last shot of vaderious' post), as he watches the distant Falcon diving downwards somewhere towards the front of the 'Executor'....

(Ady -  would you consider adding a hint of the 3 TIEs firing behind the distant Falcon that Vader looks out at, during this shot?  It could really help to tie-in better with the 'before' and 'after' shots where the Falcon is chased by the TIEs.  Just a thought)

Now here's where things get a little COMPLICATED....because it's at this point that I have to disagree with the previous speculation by vaderios, that Vader is actually looking out of the 'side-window' that he's indicated with the number 3....

....because we now cut to 2 frontal 'close-ups' of Vader's mask at 1:53:04 and 1:53:08 respectively, as we hear the words "Luke", followed by "Son, come with me" -   The problem I have in believing that Vader is standing at the big 'side-window', is the fact that the background shown behind Vader in these 2 shots now, is NOT the expected opposite side of the 'Bridge'!  The 'Bridge' is somewhat symmetrical, so we should be seeing some of the other windows on the other side, behind Vader at this point, if he was meant to be looking out one of the big 'side-windows'.... 

Instead, the background that we see behind Vader at this point looks like an 'out-of-focus' closed doorway that suspiciously looks like the doorway that we more clearly see on the right-hand side of Vader as he exits down the 'steps' from the 'Bridge' later on....  

Also, I personally always believed that Vader had moved all the way forward to the very front big window of the 'Bridge' during the intervening minute since he was last seen at the smaller 'alcove' windows....so that he could follow the view of the trajectory of the Falcon's previous veer right to go downwards towards the right-hand side of the 'Executor's' prow, way in front of him....and where he stayed to privately 'converse' with Luke, away from the other crewmembers, until the Falcon escaped, before eventually turning round to exit the 'Bridge'.  However, if this is the case, then we should really be seeing an 'out-of-focus' open entrance directly behind him in these 2 shots now, rather than the current 'closed doorway'....  (Although I'm sure you are able to tweak the current shot a little, so that we don't see the 'closed doors' anymore, if you agree that this is where Vader is actually positioned now) 

Anyway, the 2nd shot of Vader's latest frontal 'close-up' ends at 1:53:12, and we then cut to approx. 30 seconds worth of scenes showing Luke and the crew, and the Falcon passing closely alongside the prow of the 'Executor', before eventually passing it.... 

At 1:53:42, we now cut back to a more side-on 'close-up' of Vader's mask facing the right of the frame, as we hear the words "Luke, it is your destiny" (remember the 'flashing lights' background of the initial 'alcove' section he entered?  Well a similar backdrop is now seen behind him again, except in reverse!  The big red round light is the other way round now, for instance)

This makes it look that he has now moved into the 'alcove' on the LEFT-hand side of the 'Bridge', but I still like to think that he is still standing in front of the big front window, as the Falcon (which he has been watching from there) has only just passed in front of the tip of the 'Executor's' prow at this point....  So unless he's 'wandered off' into the left 'alcove' briefly, from his position up front....then the background in this shot should really be some of the 'Bridge' windows on the left of his 'at front' position...

So now, this shot of Vader ends at 1:53:46, and we then cut to approx. 45 seconds worth of scenes showing the 3 TIEs still chasing the Millennium Falcon, as Admiral Piett prepares to use the 'tractor beam', just before Artoo fixes the hyperdrive, and the Falcon escapes....

At 1:54:30, we now cut back to a 'close-up' of the back of Vader's helmet, as he looks out of a big window. 

AT 1:54:37, we see that Vader has been looking out of the big front window, as he turns around to exit the 'Bridge'. 

However....we clearly see in this shot (as well as earlier on, when Vader watched the Fleet massing) that the sides of the 'open entrance' to the 'Bridge' are WIDER now, compared to when he initially enters it at 1:52:17, or when he exits it too! 

Ontop of that, we clearly see that the whole floor area approach to the 'Bridge' is FLAT now, and that there are no 'steps' for Vader to exit down!!

Finally, at 1:54:50....as we see Vader now exit the narrower 'Bridge' entrance to go down the 'steps' that suddenly appear there....we also see that a crewmember holding some device or other is firmly rooted to the spot as Vader passes him, whereas he wasn't standing there in front of the 'Bridge' entrance in the shot beforehand!

 

LOL!  As Han once said to Chewie -  "I don't know how we're gonna get out of this one...."

I haven't a clue what you will decide to try to do in any of this sequence Ady, or what you'll agree with out of the above, but I won't be expecting miracles....  However things pan out, I realise that some of this is probably unfixable.... 

No worries, it's still gonna be a monster of an improvement over the current release.  :)

Next stop (hopefully....), the AT-AT's!  Yay!  :)

 

 

  

  

 

    

  

 

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Whoa that was neat! Maybe with some better editing and some new mattes the errors will reduced...

who knows... :P

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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ImpFighter - I laud your keen observation! I just don't know HOW these issues could be resolved...and now my brain is doing crunches trying to figure it out...

"I turned it off! I don't wanna talk to her!"
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nohandluke said:

ImpFighter - I laud your keen observation! I just don't know HOW these issues could be resolved...and now my brain is doing crunches trying to figure it out...

 

Apologies everyone, but that 'keen observation' wasn't so observant it seems!  Well I did say things get a little 'complicated' where some of these 'Bridge' shots are concerned, lol.

I just checked to see if the so-called 'troublesome' shots were 'static' ones or not (they are, by the way), to get an idea of how much work Adywan would have to do to amend certain 'backgrounds', if he attempted to do anything to them.  When doing this, I've now found a BIG flaw in my recent 'positioning' shots for Vader....

(It would be good to get the various screenshots for this sequence, as it will be a whole lot easier to show some options, so I'll see if I can get them organised sometime)  

But just to say at the moment -  I've belatedly realised that the shot at 1:53:01, where (according to me at the time) we see Vader positioned at the very front big 'Bridge' window, as he watches the trajectory of the Falcon's dive downwards towards the 'Executor's RIGHT-hand side, in front of him....further ahead of him....as it headed closely towards the 'prow'....does not fit properly, because the tiny Millennium Falcon element (that I wanted a hint of TIEs firing laserbolts added to!) in the shot actually makes it look like the Falcon is wrongly crossing across the path of the 'Executor', on it's way to the LEFT-side of it, at this point!  

So if that particular shot was to work in representing Vader at the front big window in the sequence I described....then we actually WOULDN'T see the tiny Falcon at all, through the window, and it would need to be removed from the shot altogether, instead! 

On the other hand -  I can now also see a totally different order of possible 'positioning' for Vader, if the 'movement' of the Falcon in that shot is left as it is....  It means that Vader was meant to be looking out of 'side'-windows at some point, after all (although still not necessarily the 'side'-window that vaderios alluded to), and that some of the 'troublesome' backgrounds can maybe make sense, after all.  Not all of them though.... 

So might be worth looking at further options on this yet, if I can get the shots, although I've no idea if Adywan has done anything here at all yet, or even sorted everything to make sense already

 

By the way vaderios, I love the work you did on your 'matte'!  That is certainly one of the shots that I really look forward to seeing improved on a little.  The colouring vastly improves on the SE version already of course.  I hope you do get the time to have a go with the 'JEDI' one sometime too. Great stuff.

 

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Yep i can do it. Just tell me if you need HD or dvd quality. Because i dont have HD starwars in my PC so let me know :)

 

later

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Okay folks, here's something I'm going to try out (if GoodMusician doesn't mind):

I'm going to include the update ESB:R link in my signature, so you can click it anytime to check on things.  I post on here regularly (almost daily) which means the link should be easy to find.  I will be adding my own "status" page, which WILL be updated as things go along.  I guess ImpFighter and company, if things come up to update, send me a PM or something so I can update the new list.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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This is DEFINITELY one thing that will be changed, but here is a suggestions:

(1) make the asteroid bigger and maybe move faster to account for it destroying the SD tower so easily
(2) show the SD get a quick laser shot or two to show that the commander just wasn't watching this big, huge asteroid coming straight for his bridge and just twiddling his thumbs.
(3) just don't add a different (and better) explosion; show the asteroid plowing into the conning tower, with the tower collapsing inwards and blowing apart, with the asteroid turning into chunks or the force of the explosion launches it in an upward 30 degree arc (for reference, watch NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 4 when Freddy's claw comes out of the ground and the truck hits it full force and wraps around the glove for an idea of what to do with the conning tower when hit)

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson