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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - AVAILABLE NOW — Page 197

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Looked good overall, some of the mouth movements looked a bit "sharp" (too much movement) and the one blink that felt off was after Yoda says "what he was doing..."

After youve seen a scene enough times even the benign becomes apperant I guess. Never thought Yoda needed any updating though IMO.

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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Wow Ady!

It's been a while since I've posted - mostly just checking in from time to time.  the tweaks to Yoda are subtle, yet help give him a bit more life likeness.   Like someone else said, if I didn't know what to look for, I would not have noticed.  they are undistracting improvements!

I now think LFL is waiting to release the saga on Blu-Ray until you finish the Revisited series and they know what a Special Edition truly means.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness - Chinese proverb

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Awesome work........Yoda is now perfect iMo. I wouldn't change a thing if I were you Ady. What's there now is 95% the puppet we all know & love...and 5% subtle tweaking. The perfect combo.

I really look forward to all the other Yoda scenes even more so now based on this accomplishment. Of course I know we may not get to see them all for sometime.....but still.

 

Will you be doing any work to the scene where we see Yoda walking in the distance back toward his home? (tweaking his movements to be more fluid)

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 (Edited)

Okay, here is the first part of a few 'AT-AT GROUND BATTLE'-related things I've been meaning to comment on for a while now Adywan, for you to consider (or shoot down, lol)....  It might take a little while to read through the two or three posts I'll need to eventually split them into, but here goes. (and many thanks to doubleofive who once again generously took the time to give me the exact numerous screenshots I wanted.) 

 

Firstly, can I say that while I wasn't quite sure about your change to the the AT-AT 'reveal' graphic at first, I've really come round to the look of it now, and realise that the consistency with the view from out of the identical Rebel binoculars will be a very good thing....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-001.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-003.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-004.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-047.jpg

....however, although I know you confirmed that the 'red rectangle' would also be added to Luke's graphic too, I hope the same goes for the 'green and moving sections' that are seen either side of your new one.  These are my favourite elements from the original one, and they really add interest to the 'double-circle' version.  Nice work once again.

 

Although not straightforward, there are 2 things during the AT-AT battle that I'd personally most like to see improved in some way, if you would consider it, so I'll start with them, and offer a couple of possible ways to perhaps do that.  They both happen to involve the 'full-scale props' that were used....

This is my first offender -  it's not a long shot, but it's always been a frustrating one for me.  It's the AT-AT 'foot' that is hit by the tow cable that just seems to 'dangle' around momentarily in mid-air and 'wobbles' slightly, and isn't at all consistent with the movement of the miniature AT-AT 'feet' shots before and after it....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-007.jpg

Now while it looks fine here in this still screengrab, the actual 'movement' onscreen is very poor.  From scrutinising the footage of the shot just afterwards where the snowspeeder has started to wrap the tow cable around the legs, it seems to have attached to the REAR, LEFT foot, before going around the back of the AT-AT.  This seems to tie-in with this 'prop' foot, which is shown with it's outer side to us.  Sadly, going by the angle of the 'prop' in the shot, and the distance we are away from it, we should probably have seen the opposing REAR, RIGHT leg/foot somewhere on the right of the frame, too....  I'd also suggest that the actual 'portion' of the 'prop' foot that is shown is actually not very well framed to begin with, and that some of the miniature 'close-ups' showed far better sections, such as the 'toes'.  I reckon some of the actual detailing is a little suspect too. 

Here's a very rough reminder of how it currently fits in sequence at some point in-between these other more convincing before and after miniature 'feet' shots, albiet without the brief 'intercutting' shots of the snowspeeder pilots which help to distract from any continuity problems in the look, colour, or backgrounds, when watching the movie -

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-036.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-037.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-038.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-007.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-039.jpg

If you plan to keep this shot mainly as it is, then perhaps you'd consider even trying to remove the 'wobble' of the 'prop'?  I doubt that the flimsy tow cable hitting the gigantic AT-AT's supposedly solid leg would affect it like that.  Also, perhaps you could study the look of of the REAR, LEFT foot on the miniature that precedes it (if you agree that this is the 'foot' in question), and better match some of it's details onto the 'prop', such as those involving the 'circle' areas?  And even the glimpse of a more prominent, more horizontal 'toe' added to the bottom right-hand side would be a welcome addition to help the poor framing a tad, and match how the preceding miniature one looked.

But on the other hand, maybe you'd even consider this, which has the potential to improve things much more dramatically, if you like the idea -  totally removing that 'prop' shot altogether, and replacing it with a brief 'flipped' version (but with a slightly different background) of existing footage of 'walking legs/feet' from the sequence where Luke is seen running underneath an AT-AT, which comes a good 4 minutes or so later on during the battle'!  

In the intervening 4 minutes or so, there's been a lot of action going on, due to numerous different scenes and cuts, with plenty of other AT-AT leg/foot shots to distract and mix things up from the 'memory' of the one that has gone before....so that by the time we get to the actual original, 'unflipped' scene with the 'walking legs/feet', you wouldn't really register that this brief AT-AT shot is the same one.  Luke would be need to be erased , and some difference made to the background, and a new tow cable would have to be added shown 'attaching' to the REAR, LEFT foot seen in the middle of the frame, and maybe colour-matched slightly (but as I said, there's intercutting pilot shots which make that less necessary).  It's just a thought, and the footage is just a tad longer than the 'prop' shot that it would replace, I checked.  So getting a length of shot that covers the same length as the 'prop' shot is no problem. 

And here's a very rough example of how including the 'flipped' shot would then look now, compared to the existing sequence shown above, although a watch of the actual moving footage will be needed to really get an idea of how it would turn out (remember, there would be no Luke in the scene, and there would be an added new tow cable 'attaching' to the back leg/foot, and intercutting between the different AT-AT shots with pilot shots) -

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-036.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-037.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-038.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-024.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-025.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-026.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-039.jpg

 

Okay, that's the first thing out of the way, don't know what you'll make of it, but I'll get to the other ones as soon as I can. 

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First, thanks again to Adywan for all his great work.  Your work makes Yoda seem much more natural and no longer betrays his muppet origins.

The Golden Idol said:
adywan said:

Well i can see the AT-AT debate still rages on. lol. Looks like i've got a lot of catching up to do. I'll reply to things that have been said a bit later when i get some spare time. But for now....

This is a clip i was hoping to post for Christmas but i didn't get a chance to finish it because of getting the damn flu. I have tweaked Yoda a bit. I've stuck to just the mouth movements because i don't feel the face needs anything. I have just tried to sync the lip movement more with what he is speaking.

Enjoy, and a Happy new Year

YODA TWEAKED -17mb approx XVID

 

 That's awesome, Ady. I think Yoda could use some subtle eyelid movement, but otherwise it's perfect!

Also, I think maybe he should move his eyes a bit more in certain scenes. Sometimes it kinda seems like his eyes are stuck facing forward. If you can subtly move his eyes a bit in these scenes, that would make him so much more lifelike.

Great job, Ady!

I agree with the Golden Idol on this.  There are a few times, like when Yoda is walking with his cane, that he just looks sort of straight, in the same direction his face is facing.  I would think he would either look up a little, as if he were thinking or look down.  The position of his eyes doesn't seem natural at that time.   And there are a few times when he is talking to Luke, but he seems to be staring slightly to the side of Luke.  I kind of thought he would stare directly at the camera.

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AuggieBenDoggie said:

 I do have a little request on the hoth battle. Could you give the smaller guns on the side of the head of the AT-AT's a little action. They never fire the whole time if I recall.

 

Just to say at this point, I now know that they definately do have several scenes where they are utilised throughout the battle for sure....and they aren't green either!  More on them soon.  :) 

 

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ImperialFighter said:

irstly, can I say that while I wasn't quite sure about your change to the the AT-AT 'reveal' graphic at first, I've really come round to the look of it now, and realise that the consistency with the view from out of the identical Rebel binoculars will be a very good thing....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-001.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-003.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-004.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-047.jpg

....however, although I know you confirmed that the 'red rectangle' would also be added to Luke's graphic too, I hope the same goes for the 'green and moving sections' that are seen either side of your new one.  These are my favourite elements from the original one, and they really add interest to the 'double-circle' version.  Nice work once again.

 

Ady: you may want to consider getting rid of the red box and extra stuff on the right and left.  One, it wasn't on Luke's binocs and second, it kinda distracts from the AT-ATs in the frame.  I could understand making the red numbers on the top and bottom more legible, but I would keep it toned down so people will be looking at the AT-ATs and not the green bar and red box (though I understand the red box was on the original binoc view).

At least try it out and see how it looks.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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Aw man, really Monroville?  Personally, I always liked the overall colour/'movement' of the original Rebel trooper binocular graphic better than the plain original Luke binocular graphic.  I'd be sorry to see the effect either side go, and hope Adywan feels the same.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-005.jpg

As far as the 'double circular' look to the front of the binoculars themselves, that didn't actually faze me too much in the past, as the end eyepiece that they looked through (as evident in the shot below) is somewhat 'rectangular' anyway, and I just used to accept that the Rebel trooper's 'rectangular' graphic was because it was just on a totally different 'setting', or was a 'modified' one compared to Luke's.  :) 

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-002.jpg

I have to say that in hindsight, that the 'double circle' graphic is far preferable over both the displays now, but I'd sure miss that colour/'movement' thing either side.

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ImperialFighter said:

Aw man, really Monroville?  Personally, I always liked the overall colour/'movement' of the original Rebel trooper binocular graphic better than the plain original Luke binocular graphic.  I'd be sorry to see the effect either side go, and hope Adywan feels the same.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's supposed to be that way. If it was a sharp, uncluttered picture, people would think 'wow, look at those things!' But having it cluttered, blurry and 'distracting,' it's like 'what are those things?' Then you see them later and are awed. ;)

Plus, that reddish box gives it a bit more character.

 

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I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not, but when Yoda chews on Luke's food stick thing, I believe there's a crunching sound, but when Luke takes it back, it's whole. Maybe remove a small piece off the top?

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Okay, here it is then, the second unconvincing 'prop' seen during the marvellous AT-AT GROUND BATTLE that niggles me no end every time I see it. 

Seen here with Luke's foot on it, it's the one that is meant to represent the uppermost narrow end of one of the the almost 'plectrum'-shaped 'moving sections' that joins the very top of the AT-AT's rear left leg onto the side of it's body -

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-011.jpg

I already brought this particular badboy up a good while ago Adywan, and you mentioned at the time that it would probably have to just be left as it is, and that it wasn't really something that had ever really bothered you too much.  I understand that, and know that the shots are probably beyond salvage throughout the scene anyway.  The only reason I'm bringing it up again, is that since then, I've thought about a little something else that you might consider on....

Firstly, to briefly recap -  as most will know, the end shape of this uppermost AT-AT leg-piece 'full-scale prop' unfortunately looks nothing like the end shape on the leg-pieces that are on the actual miniature AT-AT's themselves.  And again, this 'prop' seems to 'wobble' about just a little too much, even to tie in with some of the 'shakier' stop-motion on show....  I don't know why this turned out so different from the look of the miniatures, but I'd be interested if anyone knows the reason (I'd like to think there is a good reason, rather than carelessness).  It certainly always makes for jarring continuity, when I see it. 

Anyway, after Luke has 'rappelled' upwards towards the section in question under the AT-AT's belly, the 2 other shots below give a reasonable view of how the end shapes should actually look like, to match the 'prop' to the miniatures -  

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-009.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-014.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-016.jpg

So then, it turns out that the ends of these 'leg pieces' look 'chunkier' on the miniatures, compared to the 'prop', as the ones on the miniatures have an 'outer ring' which has a shallow 'hollow' centre, where a small protruding detail sticks out from the middle.  In the shallow 'hollow', there seems to be just 3 small holes around the protruding detail.  You get the idea.  Unfortunately, there are also questions about scale and proportions too on the 'full-size prop' that Luke is beside.  It seems that the 'adjoining' leg pieces under the belly of the miniature AT-AT's are seen to be quite close to each other in a lot of shots such as the ones above, whereas Luke seems to have a lot of space to manoeuvre beside that single 'prop' piece....

So at the end of the day it is unlikely that much can be done.  However, a couple of little things that I would really like to see done to these shots, would be a little less 'wobble' if that is at all possible.  Again, things look fine in these still screenshots, but the actual 'movement' onscreen looks too unconvincing in a few places (to me anyway).  That could definately improve matters, but I don't know if that can be achieved in any of the shots.  Too bad if not. 

Another thing I would REALLY like to see is the slight, momentary glimpse of an added opposite 'adjoining' FRONT, RIGHT 'leg piece' section coming into view on the LEFT-hand space of the frame, when Luke is first seen reaching for his Lightsaber as he twists on reaching the underbelly.  On studying the movements during that shot, there does seem to be an ideal moment to add this in, as the 'framing' of the whole scene moves to the LEFT, then moves back to the RIGHT a little again, at one point (as if it has lurched forward during it's 'walking' forwards), just before  Luke swipes the underbelly with his now fully ignited Lightsaber.  The added glimpse of the new piece on the left-hand side would move back out of the frame, just before Luke swipes upwards.  This is just another little thing that could help matters greatly,  matters, and would tie in with the 'closeness' of the miniature's 'leg pieces' better.   I'd really like to see this if you agree.

The last little thing that occurred to me recently about why I disliked the dreadfully different 'prop' so much, is realising that because I know it is so different in it's shaped outline, compared to the shape of the the miniature versions, that my eye is always drawn to it.  But then I realised that I could just about put up with that wrong shape if it was made 'plainer', more 'invisible' in the scene....by getting rid of the also absolutely wrong 'detailing' that stands out on it, making you 'study' the piece!  Remember the 3 holes that surrounded the protruding bit inside the shallow 'hollowed'-out circle?  Well this 'prop' is covered in lots of distractingly wrong detail (which is nowhere close) and which is actually sticking-out around the protruding central bit on the 'prop', rather than being the 3 indented 'holes' that are seen on the miniature's detail.  My eye is drawn to them constantly, and if they weren't there at all, the whole 'prop' would seem 'simpler', yet more 'chunky', and certainly be 'more in the background' if you know what I'm getting at.  See what you think, but I am sure that this thing would be far better if all of these things were erased off it! 

Here's the sort of thing I mean -

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-008.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-010.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-011.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-012.jpg

 That's all for now.  Plenty more AT-AT madness to come in the coming days though.  :)

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Ripplin said:
ImperialFighter said:

Aw man, really Monroville?  Personally, I always liked the overall colour/'movement' of the original Rebel trooper binocular graphic better than the plain original Luke binocular graphic.  I'd be sorry to see the effect either side go, and hope Adywan feels the same.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's supposed to be that way. If it was a sharp, uncluttered picture, people would think 'wow, look at those things!' But having it cluttered, blurry and 'distracting,' it's like 'what are those things?' Then you see them later and are awed. ;)

Plus, that reddish box gives it a bit more character.

I understand your points; I guess my thing is if you want to keep the red box and the green slider, add it to Luke's in the beginning to be consistent.  Then again, the whole "different setting" thing works too.

But what do I know?  I'm just a crazy guy in a santa suit...

 

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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ImperialFighter said:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-011.jpg

 

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/IF-Hoth/Hoth-014.jpg

 

Another thing I would REALLY like to see is the slight, momentary glimpse of an added opposite 'adjoining' FRONT, RIGHT 'leg piece' section coming into view on the LEFT-hand space of the frame, when Luke is first seen reaching for his Lightsaber as he twists on reaching the underbelly.  On studying the movements during that shot, there does seem to be an ideal moment to add this in, as the 'framing' of the whole scene moves to the LEFT, then moves back to the RIGHT a little again, at one point (as if it has lurched forwards during it's 'walking' forward), just before Luke swipes the underbelly with his now fully ignited Lightsaber.  The added glimpse of the new piece on the left-hand side would move back out of the frame, just before Luke swipes upwards.  This is just another little thing that could help matters greatly,  matters, and would tie in with the 'closeness' of the miniature's 'leg pieces' better.   I'd really like to see this if you agree.

 

I had to go back and re-write quite a bit of this particular paragraph from my previous post above, as I had got my 'lefts' and 'rights' mixed up, due to rushing!  Anyway, I've also added a bit more detail to my description of what I'm meaning, and just wanted to point this out.

 

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Monroville said:

I understand your points; I guess my thing is if you want to keep the red box and the green slider, add it to Luke's in the beginning to be consistent.  Then again, the whole "different setting" thing works too.

But what do I know?  I'm just a crazy guy in a santa suit...

 

 

Yes, I was meaning that I hope he also prefers to add that green 'moving' slider onto Luke's view too, as the original looks kinda plain.  However I can certainly go with the 'different setting' thing if Adywan prefers it that way.

Also, you may be a crazy guy in a santa suit, but I always look forward to reading your ideas, of which you have many.  We need that around here, as we can't expect Adywan to think of everything himself, if there's certain things we'd like to see.  His choice is final of course.

 

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It's always interesting to see ImperialFighter's final product.  I know that I did the screenshots, but I usually have no idea what he's going for.  I find it interesting the things that jump out at him that I never noticed.  Of course, after scouring the shots trying to get the frame he wants, I can see them now.

I just noticed that the feet have much more snow encrusted on them in this shot:

Than in these shots:

Now I'm ruining it for everybody.

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Monroville said:

I guess my thing is if you want to keep the red box and the green slider, add it to Luke's in the beginning to be consistent.  Then again, the whole "different setting" thing works too.

It's funny how it could go in two different directions like that. I'd be happy either way. We could just say that Luke's binocs are using a different OS than the other guy's. Heh.

I think something will be added to Luke's, though. (or has been already? I can't remember.)

 

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doubleofive said:

 

Now I'm ruining it for everybody.

 

Lol, don't worry, I think most of us realise that even this great entry in the saga is actually full of gaffs and continuity problems at this stage.

Having said that doubleofive, since you pointed out that 'stick' to me (which I actually had never noticed before!), it's all I can see now, and can't bear to watch this movie again....  :)

At least the shot where the snowspeeder goes under the AT-AT is a fleeting one (as are a lot of the shots), and most of the differing cuts from 'extreme close-ups' to fuller viewpoints of the different miniature work are intercut with other scenes before we return to certain ones.  A lot of problems fly past when watching them in the main....I just wish that damn 'wobbly', static-looking 'foot' prop you've shown was even more fleeting!  ;)

 

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doubleofive said:

It's always interesting to see ImperialFighter's final product.  I know that I did the screenshots, but I usually have no idea what he's going for.  I find it interesting the things that jump out at him that I never noticed.  Of course, after scouring the shots trying to get the frame he wants, I can see them now.

I just noticed that the feet have much more snow encrusted on them in this shot:

Than in these shots:

Now I'm ruining it for everybody.

So now we have to deal with extra snowflakes on the walker's feet as well as Chewie's??

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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ImperialFighter said:

Having said that doubleofive, since you pointed out that 'stick' to me (which I actually had never noticed before!), it's all I can see now, and can't bear to watch this movie again....  :)

The.  Gosh.  Darned.  Stick.

THE STICK!

LOOK AT IT!  IT MOCKS ME!

I would make my own fan edit just to get rid of that stick that pokes up out of the set and pushes the AT-AT over.  Honestly, I think it would be an easy fix, and I would be REALLY UPSET if the stick was in Revisited.

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Ziz said:

So now we have to deal with extra snowflakes on the walker's feet as well as Chewie's??

 

Dammit Ziz, you beat me to it by about ten minutes! :-)

Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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doubleofive said:
ImperialFighter said:

Having said that doubleofive, since you pointed out that 'stick' to me (which I actually had never noticed before!), it's all I can see now, and can't bear to watch this movie again....  :)

The.  Gosh.  Darned.  Stick.

THE STICK!

LOOK AT IT!  IT MOCKS ME!

I would make my own fan edit just to get rid of that stick that pokes up out of the set and pushes the AT-AT over.  Honestly, I think it would be an easy fix, and I would be REALLY UPSET if the stick was in Revisited.

 

its not a stick its a pissed off wampa

 

Bingowings said: Do you want to see the project finished as a playable film or a flick book?

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 (Edited)

the graphics on the binoculars are having a bit of a  revamp for both Luke's and the Troopers shots. they will both be identical in the finished shots and will be almost the same as the troopers vision as it was in the new clip. I just want to improve the graphics a bit but not too much.

As for the underside of the AT-AT well there isn't much i can do about that but i'll have a look over that scene later and see what can be done. One thing i did notice though is that not only does the leg strut have the wrong detailing but it is also too small compared to the model. I'm trying to find the concept drawings & paintings for ESB because i think they may have built the set from the concepts but the models wee redefined for workability for the stop motion model when doing the effects which were done after filming. I just wish i knew where i put those scans.

And the stick will be gone in Revisited. :)

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adywan said:

And the stick will be gone in Revisited. :)

Thank the maker.  The whole "mutli-ton walker falling over" thing loses its weight when you can can basically see ILM under the table pushing over a 2 foot tall model.

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