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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - AVAILABLE NOW — Page 192

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Originally posted by ChainsawAsh:

"Unless Ady takes the suggestion of removing Boba from ROTJ altogether"

Why on earth would you do that?

-Rhikter

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JediMasterFisher said:

Boba has to come from somewhere big thats how be became the strongest bounty hunter in the galaxy.

 

he would come from mandalore since that is the type of armor he is wearing is mandalorian.

and taking him out of the movie altogether is stupid.

jengo fett was just as kickass as bobba, only he didn't get killed, well sorta, by a blind man.

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Boba's death is prequel trilogy humor, it looks like jarjar in a suit. I prefer not to have that in the OT.

Now we've had this discussion before (more than once), if you want to see all the arguments you can probably find them in the "esb/rotj suggestions" topic

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Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

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doubleofive said:

Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba....

 

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vbangle said:
doubleofive said:

Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba....

Is there even a reaction shot of Han after he hits Fett?  Is it ever mentioned again?  If anyone needs to have revenge taken on, its Lando and Han forgave him instantly, which we did get to see.

Its not like Fett hunting Han was personal.

Really, we should take this back to the ESB/RotJ Wishlist thread.

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 (Edited)

Originally posted by vbangle:

"I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba...."

Agreed.  The scuffle on Tatooine is a humorous blip in the continuing rivalry between Fett and Solo.  If anything, it should contribute to Fett's character.  Fett must know that he is a BAMF.  How pissed off would you be if you were him and knew that you'd just gone out like a punk?  It would be more motivation to get back at Solo.  Of course, this all depends on whether or not you're like me and believe that Fett lived to fight another day after RotJ.

GL should have filmed that extra scene of him escaping the Sarlac pit and just placed it after the credits so that it would not have interfered with the pacing of the film.  Hell, it wouldn't even have interfered with the pacing of the entire Saga because you know that RotJ is the last film.  It would have been okay to, after 6 films of high tension and drama, have had a tongue in cheek moment after the end of the last film since we know that we don't have to get hyped up about any future films, especially if you think of the 6 episodes as one giant film.

That said, I will make no more posts about this subject in this thread since I agree that it doesn't really belong here.

-Rhikter

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vbangle said:
doubleofive said:

Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba....

 

I like someone else's suggestion of taking some of the Django Fett scenes, recoloring his outfit and giving Boba an escape option (have him fly away, gain control of his jet pack and fly over the sail barge... or something.  Hell, just ADD some extra Fett maybe by taking that CLONES clip and have him firing on the skiff crew).  Remember, it's more of a "Han getting revenge against Jabba" thing than anything else.  Too bad his girlfriend has to do it for him.

 

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

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Monroville said:
vbangle said:
doubleofive said:

Some people complain about removing the completely unnessary Boba Fett from RotJ and have no problem removing the plot-centric Jar Jar Binks from TPM.  I guess its all a matter of taste.  Boba Fett is all insert shots in Jabba's palace, interacts with one person (and then only in the SE), then flies from Jabba's sail barge to a skiff, gets knocked off and dies.  How is that essential in any way, especially since everyone wants him to live anyway?

But that has nothing to do with ESB, so I'll drop it now.

I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't so much about Boba Fett than it is about Han Solo having a measure of revenge on Boba....

 

I like someone else's suggestion of taking some of the Django Fett scenes, recolouring his outfit and giving Boba an escape option (have him fly away, gain control of his jet pack and fly over the sail barge... or something.  Hell, just ADD some extra Fett maybe by taking that CLONES clip and have him firing on the skiff crew).  Remember, it's more of a "Han getting revenge against Jabba" thing than anything else.  Too bad his girlfriend has to do it for him.

 

ok i have to point out a HUGE problem with using any shots of Jango for Boba Fett in ROTJ. The two costumes are so different. For one it isn't just a case of recolouring the outfit but Bobas armour has a lot of damage on it whereas jangos looks brand new. Adding this texturing to Jangos costume is impossible. Not only that but if you look at the two photos you will see other differences. jango has 2 holsters and Boba has none. Boba has a cape and jango doesn't. They both use different weapons.The belt is different. Jango has leg & shin armour and boba has none. Different boots and probably more but i can't be bothered with spot the difference any more. lol

The whole skiff battle will have some re-edits done to it and i want to change Bobas death if i actually keep him in the movie but using Jango for footage just isn't an option. Anyway this is the ESB thread and ROTJ isn't even going to be started until 2010 so maybe we should get back on topic. lol ;)

 

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

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This all sounds awesome Ady. I also like how you always keep everything in perspective. ESB is in the best hands since Kurtz and Kershner.

"I turned it off! I don't wanna talk to her!"
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Good to hear, I was worried about the amount but I decided to keep my mouth shut.

Maybe that's why I where a helmet ;]

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I would have liked to see the Empire pwn the Rebels with a huge attack — a big part of their philosophy is the en masse approach and inspiring fear — that's why they like big ships (miles-long Star Destroyers) and lots of them (TIES are cheap and disposable but they attack in hordes, as we see in ROTJ and now ANH:R).

But I understand Ady's point of view — from a story point of view, the Empire's even scarier if they can pwn the Rebels with just three walkers.

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So those were two different cockpits? One pair had the red stripe and other didn't. leave it as it is

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JediMasterFisher said:
ChainsawAsh said:
rcb said:

plus is name is said twice in ROTJ by han right before he  turns and accidently the pole hits bobba fetts jet pack.

Unless Ady takes the suggestion of removing Boba from ROTJ altogether (which I really hope he does) - then his name is never said.

 I hope he doesn't that changes the story and the story doesn't need to be changed at all.

Yeah  come on ppl, Ady might want some suggestions here and there, but not an army of little Lucas's. :D

 

 

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doubleofive said:

Really, we should take this back to the ESB/RotJ Wishlist thread.

I agree, and added my own two cents there on this one.

MCBarkingSpoon -   As far as everyone's suggestions go, it's good to hear everyone's ideas, no matter how outlandish some may seem (even some of mine!).  I'd like to think that Adywan welcomes this approach, and don't think we have to worry about him being influenced to do anything he himself doesn't like.   

 

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 (Edited)
Sevb32 said:

I think we need to think twice about changing those AT-AT driver's hemets, look at this http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/original%20atat%20helmet.htm

 

StarWarsHelmets.com eh?  Nice little site there Sevb32.

I always used to think that all those 'interior' shots of the AT-AT drivers were meant to be inside the General Veers AT-AT, and thought that the 'missing' red stripes on the helmets were a continuity mistake.

If they are indeed meant to show seperate interiors / AT-AT drivers, then my previous hope for red stripes to be added also is not in any way necessary now...just still preferable to me.

 

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adywan said: 

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

 

As in your previous ANH:R, whatever you decide to add, or not add, is up to you, and I bow to your chosen path regardless.  Hell, anything ontop of your great re-colouration is a bonus for us anyway!

All I know is that I am a huge fan of the likes of your added ANH:R Death Star 'reveal' additions / End Battle additions which made an already great film even better.

However, although the Hoth ground battle is already great in many ways admittedly, I cannot wait for any little enhancements along the way that you are doing (i.e.- the improved laserblasts, firing Rebel turrets etc.).  There will be other changes no doubt, but having more actual AT-AT's on show is not such a big thing if you decide against it.  Just a thought though, does this mean that you are still initially showing the few extra ones in the initial shot as they come over the ridge, that you already completed?  I hope so, as I think that extra number that you show at the beginning, can easily tie-in with the rest of the existing AT-AT footage as is, quite comfortably.

Anyway, I hope to suggest a couple of things that could improve the existing footage in a few days time, that doesn't require any additional added AT-AT's.  In the meantime, let me wish you all a very Happy New Year.  Be back after the hangover!  :)   

  

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adywan said:

ok i have to point out a HUGE problem with using any shots of Jango for Boba Fett in ROTJ. The two costumes are so different. For one it isn't just a case of recolouring the outfit but Bobas armour has a lot of damage on it whereas jangos looks brand new. Adding this texturing to Jangos costume is impossible. Not only that but if you look at the two photos you will see other differences. jango has 2 holsters and Boba has none. Boba has a cape and jango doesn't. They both use different weapons.The belt is different. Jango has leg & shin armour and boba has none. Different boots and probably more but i can't be bothered with spot the difference any more. lol

I certainly wouldn't advise adding Jango scenes to ROTJ to change the way Boba acts.  As I've said before, I think Boba can be axed entirely, with little effect on the overall story aside from Han's measure of revenge (an act from which he receives no reward as Han doesn't realize what he has done).

As far as AOTC goes, depending on the re-working, the names "Jango" and "Boba" may be able to be removed, as well as the entirety of Jango's death.  ( I use the word "may" as this "may" not be possible within the story's context.)  Then it could be said AOTC Jango = OT Boba, just with a different suit.  It is entirely feasable that a bounty hunter of Boba's caliber would alter/upgrade his armament over his long life.  He even has a slightly different look as well as different weapons between ESB and ROTJ after a period of only six months has elapsed.  And the argument that Boba would be too old by ESB is moot; plenty of alien species exist for hundreds of years in the Star Wars universe (wookiees, Yoda, etc.), so who's to say Boba isn't some long-lived humanoid alien as well?  At no pint in the films are we told that Boba Fett is a human with a standard life expectancy of so many years.

The parallel is there in this configuration: Boba shows up in AOTC, kicks ass, then leaves.  He's back in ESB, kicks ass, then leaves again.  Watching the series in order, the viewer would see Boba enter in ESB and think the heroes are in real danger now, after we saw his victory in Ep II.  It adds to the overall mystery and compelling nature of the character.  Of course, this is working with what GL gave us in 2002.  With a competent re-write, we could have gotten a more impactful Boba that could have crossed paths with major characters in a more satisfying way and made his appearance in ESB all the more threatening.  Also, do we really need to see the face underneath the helmet?  Keep the mystery, damnit!  But I digress and return to the ESB:R topic at hand....

 

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 (Edited)
adywan said:
Monroville said:

The whole skiff battle will have some re-edits done to it and i want to change Bobas death if i actually keep him in the movie but using Jango for footage just isn't an option. Anyway this is the ESB thread and ROTJ isn't even going to be started until 2010 so maybe we should get back on topic. lol ;)

I see your point; forget about the armor- the LITTLE stuff you would have to add and subtract (the leg armor, the cloak, etc) would be ... let's say time intensive.  Like a year or so for a minute or less shot or two.

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

Ehh, I would add maybe 1 or 2 extra AT-ATs in the foreground/mid-ground and keep the majority of any extra AT-ATs in the distance/background.  The Empire is going to throw more than 5 AT-ATs just for the troop comlpliment alone, much less the over-kill - WHICH they would do; I mean c'mon Ady, they throw an Executor AND about 6 to 12 Star Destroyers at the Rebels!  You would think that they would have more than 5 AT-ATs. 

Visually your first mod was cluttered, but you could still have the AT-ATs in the far off distant shot before the binoc reveal, and in the first full-frontal shot just keep the extras far in the background ala a second wave.  That way you can keep the 5 up front and the rest don't seem like they're bunched together.  Even so, one or two more  in the foreground or midground (with the first wave of AT-ATs) could work, whereas 3 to 5 or more with the front group looked a bit silly, at least for that first full-frontal shot.

Remember that what made the Death Star attack in ANH:R so memorable was that you filled in the BACKGROUND action.  If you keep a lot of the additional material in the background (like swarms of snowspeeders going after 2 or so AT-ATs in the distance of any of the regular EMPIRE Hoth battle shots; some firefights with snowspeeders strafing AT-STs, etc ala the spinning TIE crashing in the background during the DS battle) THAT would be perfect.  Just open the battle up to more than just the foreground, just like you did with ANH and it will be glorious.

Other ideas for the Hoth battle:
- adding in background elements one would see, such as:

(a) when Wedge is attacking the AT-AT, add in mountains, clouds, and/or a group of snowspeeders in the sky backdrop.  It wouldn't have to be super-detailed since it would be in the distance or (in the case of a group of SS's flying by) blurry.  A lot of those "Wedge Attacks" shots looked like it was on a stage, as well as some of the AT-AT shots where bad things happened to them.  Again, it's the background details that really opened stuff up in ANH:R.

(b) when the 3 AT-ATs are making their final march as we see the Rebels flee the trench (you know, the George Pal WAR OF THE WORLDS troop retreat scene), you could add 2 AT-ATs, one on each end of the V formation, as well as maybe some AT-STs as they're all shooting at the fleeing Rebels, and/or add the wrecked AT-ATs in the background (again, wouldn't have to be any more detailed than billowing smoke). 

Now this add could be kinda MEH like the original AT-AT full-frontal, where it could get easily cluttered.  If anything, just do something simple to test the idea if you're keen to it.  If not, no biggie, though you could at least change the background to accomodate the background terrain ala the valley and the mountains (I believe all you see is white).

-- and for those who will argue "but it's a winter storm" or "duh, evil santa. Snow is kinda WHITE.  You'd think you would know that.  It's not like you live in Florida or something.."  Remember, there was no storm at all during the rest of the battle, and as with the rest of the battle, the weather was clear and sunny and you could see the mountains and all (with the exception of the pre-binoc shot, where the AT-AT dots are coming out of a fog bank).

(c) definitely change the shield generator explosion shot (where the rebel soldier falls from the AT-AT hit in the foreground - hell, maybe add some fire onto the guy or something.. I mean he DID just get hit with an AT-AT blast and all).  Add a transparent shockwave ala what you'd see on those HISTORY channel shows on the military (as opposed to a full-fledged explosion ring) and a better looking explosion.  I mean we ARE talking about a reactor as big as a building or two.  Maybe even do something with the snow as caused by the explosion ala the Wedge AT-AT kill.

And just for fun -not that you would add it in - add a shot from Vader's SD bridge to show the explosion from orbit ala the distant Nakatomi building explosion in DIE HARD - this could be inserted over the "Veers looks to see the explosion he just caused" shot.  Hell, you could not only show the explosion from orbit - it would be relatively small - but you could show the shockwave/shield field collapsing away from the explosion epicenter. 

Think like a muted version of the STARGATE end explosion, but on Hoth's surface/atmosphere and looking down from orbit.  Have a less-defined "ring" to match the transparent one in the initial SG explosion - hell, you could just make the explosion ring/shockwave a transparent blur and show clouds getting pushed back - no colors or actual rings, but the shockwave pushing the clouds away in a circular pattern.  Enough to get the awesomeness of the explosion without getting too Michael Bay about it.  Again, HISTORY CHANNEL military shows are a really good source for realistic expolsion source material.

DEFINITELY add some major bass to the explosion.  My pants should rumble when shield generator explode.  On this note:
Do not forget you can design the AUDIO as well as the video.  You don't have to do any more than add bass effects when they are called for: Wedge AT-AT explosion, SG explosion, you get the idea.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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adywan said:

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

 

 so will you still be adding in AT-STs or will u take that one single AT-ST that shows up out of the film?

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ImperialFighter said:
Sevb32 said:

I think we need to think twice about changing those AT-AT driver's hemets, look at this http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/original%20atat%20helmet.htm

StarWarsHelmets.com eh?  Nice little site there Sevb32.

Yes, very nice. Thanks, Sev. :)

And nice to hear your thoughts on the number of AT-ATs, Ady. It does seem like more of a 'crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke' kind of arrogance only sending a few AT-ATs to get rid of all the Rebels. I have no doubt you'll intensify the overall battle, though, despite it being pretty intense already. I'm picturing more/prettier explosions  and lasers, for one thing. I dunno, but I do know things are in good hands.

 

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