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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - AVAILABLE NOW — Page 106

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ladyferry said:

Darth Solo said:

I really love this pic, its soooo cute!

 

It's the eyes.  If they were darker and meaner, it wouldn't look so much like a house pet with fangs.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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MJPollard said:

Ady, I know that you're dead-set on removing all of the SE Wampa shots.  I also know that there seems to be quite a few people that want (or, perhaps more precisely, don't mind) the SE Wampa shots to stay in.  It's up to you, of course, but perhaps a compromise could be reached: leave out all of the SE Wampa shots except the one after Luke slices his arm off.  This would keep the mystery of exactly what the Wampa looks like right up to the very end, where get get our first (and final) look at what is scaring the shit out of the characters (and us).  Jaws has been brought up a number of times as a fine example of "less is better," but even Jaws managed to reveal the entire shark towards the end, and IMHO served as an effective way of saying, "Okay, folks, we've been hinting around about this sucker, so here it is in all its glory.  Please try not to wet your pants."

Again, Ady, it's totally your decision, but perhaps this could serve as food for thought, particularly since you aren't even close to doing the actual editing yet.

I agree, as long as all the different "Wampas" are matched for consistency.

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Ziz said:

ladyferry said:

Darth Solo said:

I really love this pic, its soooo cute!

 

It's the eyes.  If they were darker and meaner, it wouldn't look so much like a house pet with fangs.

This Wampa looks rather camp don't you think? it actually resembles my pet Chihuahua Leto! 

I am a kite dancing in a hurricane …
https://twitter.com/ActivistFangirl

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Well its the last shot of the Wampa that i have the biggest problem with. The original footage of the arm after it is severed its is cut at around the elbow, but the SE wampa has is severed at the shoulder. It really bugged me that they couldn't even get that right. It's not as if the footage wasn't already there for reference. You see, thats one of the main problems with the SE. All this new stuff was added without any regard for continuity with what was originally there and what would be kept  just because it could be added. Not only did they screw up the arm but also later on in cloud city too. The New Buildings as they land no longer match the Matte painting and the addition of the window with the elevator is there one shot and gone for the rest. Total screw ups that a aren't that difficult to spot that something is wrong (especially with a renouned FX house like ILM)

i haven't fully decided what to do with the wampa scene yet but i can't see me keeping the SE additons at all

 

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

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 (Edited)

Ok, in an attempt to help not only Ady with this but everyone else, and to give everyone a common frame of reference (in more ways than one) I whipped up this shot by shot comparison of the SE and GOUT Wampa sequences. The frame grabs aren't perfectly time-synced, but rather just to illustrate which shot we're talking about. I've also numbered them, with SE specific shots given sub-letter designations.

SE is on the left, GOUT is on the right.

Wampa comparison

GOUT3 and GOUT15 were flat-out replaced.

I'm guessing that SE7a is either an insert into the middle of GOUT7, splitting it into two shots (SE7 and SE7b) or that SE7b is a repeat of the end of GOUT7. My machine can't handle running two videos in parallel to compare them exactly. I'm sure Ady or someone else can give a definitive answer.

As for MJPollard's suggestion, maybe SE23a can be salvaged by matting in a section of the arm from SE15 to solve the shoulder/elbow issue?

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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adywan said:

i can't see me keeping the SE additons at all

 

 

Please don't bother.  They're hideous.

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In those comparison shots, I can't say how much I prefer the GOUT version of #15 over the SE version. Mystery is good! Leaving things to the imagination is so much a part of the fun of watching things sometimes. To just see this huge hairy thing walking towards Luke (even though we know it's a guy in a suit) is much better than the even more obvious guy in a suit eating tauntaun drumsticks. :p

And I kinda like the suggestion made earlier of making the wampa's horns match the first close-up ones in subsequent shots, where they're there, but obscured by fur. It looks cool with that broken stump at the end, too.

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I hope for continuity and then whatever looks best, I like the looks of the SE Wampa, and the small puppet  but the baby faced Monsters Inc look alike one has to go.  Haveing three different Wampas make you wonder what the hell were they trying to do ruin the coolest thing of all time or what.   

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I have 3 uestion to adywan:

1) I know that you removedse wampa scene,but could youadd it in DVD Bonus, like you've done with Jabba? i realy like this Wampa.

2) Why you removed scene when vaders shutle flys from Bespin to SSD?

3)i hope you dont delete SE Max Rebo Scene from ROTJ. I REALY like it. :)

PS. I love your Ep4! Its better than original! :)

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Fjodin said:

I have 3 uestion to adywan:

1) I know that you removedse wampa scene,but could youadd it in DVD Bonus, like you've done with Jabba? i realy like this Wampa.

2) Why you removed scene when vaders shutle flys from Bespin to SSD?

3)i hope you dont delete SE Max Rebo Scene from ROTJ. I REALY like it. :)

PS. I love your Ep4! Its better than original! :)

 

2) The problem with the shot inside the executor is that it is a recycled shot from the opening scene to Return of the Jedi. It's just like--'what the hell?' I personally don't have much of a problem with the scenes of Vader's shuttle taking off, and traversing through space. I understand some people say it slows down the pacing of the escape of the Millenium Falcon, but I think it provides a little expansion to what everybody's doing at the moment.

Ady, what do you think of the star maps so far? I love the brighter stars in both your last edit and in this one, but have you thought about working on the star maps to make them a little more realistic? Maybe star clusters, or milky way-like formations strewn across the screen could give a sense that these planets do indeed exist in a galaxy far far away. It would be interesting to see the action take place against a backdrop of stars that looks more like what you see when you look up into the sky on a clear night.  If it was at all feasible, I think it could be real cool to see probe droids searching a galaxy that looked like this.

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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Fjodin, you seem to really like the SE additions. (and thus, I figure you're fairly young and grew up with the SE versions) However, Adywan, and most people on this forum (originaltrilogy.com...), do not like the SE elements. There are a few that are decent, but there are a lot of problems with most of them and they're not worth fixing. Most of us believe that Empire was nearly perfect the way it was originally, so this edit will be much more about cosmetic fixes than ANH was.

My crazy vinyl LP blog

My dumberer blog

My Retro blog

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Fjodin said:

I have 3 uestion to adywan:

1) I know that you removedse wampa scene,but could youadd it in DVD Bonus, like you've done with Jabba? i realy like this Wampa.

 

i may well do that

 

2) Why you removed scene when vaders shutle flys from Bespin to SSD?

 

It was a totally unnecessary addition which ruins the pacing of the whole scene

 

3)i hope you dont delete SE Max Rebo Scene from ROTJ. I REALY like it. :)

PS. I love your Ep4! Its better than original! :)

 

Again that another SE addition that will be going. The whole "Jedi Rocks" music number just doesn't fit in with the feel of Star Wars at all.

 

 

PaulisDead2221 said:

Ady, what do you think of the star maps so far? I love the brighter stars in both your last edit and in this one, but have you thought about working on the star maps to make them a little more realistic? Maybe star clusters, or milky way-like formations strewn across the screen could give a sense that these planets do indeed exist in a galaxy far far away. It would be interesting to see the action take place against a backdrop of stars that looks more like what you see when you look up into the sky on a clear night.  If it was at all feasible, I think it could be real cool to see probe droids searching a galaxy that looked like this.

 

i Toyed around with using different styles of starfields when i was first starting ANH:R.Iit just didn't feel like Star Wars any more and just didn't look right in my eyes.

ANH:REVISITED
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PaulisDead2221 said:

2) The problem with the shot inside the executor is that it is a recycled shot from the opening scene to Return of the Jedi. It's just like--'what the hell?' I personally don't have much of a problem with the scenes of Vader's shuttle taking off, and traversing through space. I understand some people say it slows down the pacing of the escape of the Millenium Falcon, but I think it provides a little expansion to what everybody's doing at the moment.

I'd like the actual brief shot of Darth's Shuttle seen flying upwards toward the 'Executor' in distance, retained too.  The part where we see the Shuttle from behind anyway.  This is a really nice 'establishing' shot that occurs before the proper 'TIE / Millennium Falcon chase' gets properly underway, and in no way interferes with the 'pacing' of it....unlike the likes of the Shuttle actually docking, and Vader exiting it down the ramp.  Unless Adywan is choosing to use that particular 'Executor' element in his altered 'JEDI' opening, that is....

 

Ziz -  Nice work on that selection of Wampa shots from the SE and GOUT versions.

Darth Solo -  That was an interesting collection of behind-the-scenes shots of the 2nd original version ('man in a suit') 'lunging' Wampa.  I hadn't seen those before.  Hilarious.

That 'One-arm' link that was also recently put up, was interesting too.  Lots of neat Wampa artwork I'd never seen before.  Also, as far as the info. referring to the 2nd original 'lunging' version in the 'ice cave' as being a different, female Wampa, compared to the '1st one' first seen earlier in the movie....well, I'd never read that before either!  While the idea is 'plausible' enough, the question is whether that is a better idea than having it seem to be the same Wampa that Luke's dealing with throughout, or not....  Because the possibility it was a seperate, female Wampa was not something I remember thinking was obviously meant to be the case, during my many viewings of 'Empire', then I'm not so sure.

All I know is that there seems to be a lot of Wampa apples and Wampa oranges where various folks are concerned, myself included, and there are various ways this could go.  Pity someone, somewhere, messed up on the whole 'continuity' thing with this one....  I sure will be interested to see what Adywan's own final preferrence turns out to be, come the time.  Decisions, decisions....  :)

By the way, I think Adywan's revamped 'starfields' are excellent, and very 'Star Wars' as they are. 

 

 

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I am not that person who saw SE first. I saw OT first. i like some of SE additons. What i like in SE as additions that make it look a little bit so cool like prequels. For example 3d animals in Tatooine city, 3d dewbacks. And i like SE max Rebo more than original one. But I am also like adywans work. New Yawin battle, imperial march and duel music in E4 is amazing. The color correction, editing mistakes and new addition (Hyperspace tunel, 3d Death Star) is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! And it's a little bit sad, that some of SE scenes will be deleted...

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i grew up with OT before SE.

I didn't like the SE jabba scene and jedi rocks. but I did like the SE wampa scene.

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adywan said:

I Toyed around with using different styles of starfields when i was first starting ANH:R.Iit just didn't feel like Star Wars any more and just didn't look right in my eyes.

On a similar note. I have two minor issues with the star fields in ESB. Both take place during the end when the Falcon is being chased by Ties after they rescue Luke.

1) When they notice the SSD and "bank" right, the stars become brighter.

2) When they are about to jump into lightspeed, there is a "wandering" star field, it looks as if they are just drifting out in space.

Previous occasions when the Falcon has Jumped into lightspeed there was a "static" star field, showing they were on a course. I was wondering if you could possibly alter the stars so they dont not become so bright as they "turn," and if you could make the star field "static" during that last chase scene?

 

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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I'm fairly certain I'm caught up on this thread now, and I didn't see this mentioned, but it's a very long thread so please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Back to the "Boba's voice" topic for a moment... we don't know enough about the cloning technique used to produce the clone-troopers, or their subsequent training, to say what kind of voice they would have.  For the sake of argument, let's assume it makes perfect sense that they would all sound like Morrison.

However, Boba is unique among all the clones in that he had the opportunity to live a full life from childhood through adulthood, and most of that life was spent without the influence his father would have had on his speech patterns.  That is the only reason you need to restore the original voice.  All the other clones can sound like Morrison, at least there's an argument to be made for that.  But it makes no sense for Boba to sound anything like him; in fact it would be an incredible coincidence if he did.  There's no need to introduce the idea of voice-altering technology or any other explanation.  The guy has had an actual life, end of story.

Again, my apologies if someone made this point already.

Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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I am sorry, but I cannot help wounder why we seem to be going back over the same 'arguments' over and over again.

I think some seem to be forgetting the purpose of Adywan's edit. This edit was started 'cuz the SE was a disappointment for him as well as a lot of people (to put it mildly).

It's Adywan's edit. If he says he hates a scene and wants to cut or change it, it's his prerogative. If you disagree, that's OK, but provide a convincing argument or alternative helpful suggestion, but to keep using the "...because I like it" counter argument just isn't going to get anywhere.

If you love the SE additions, and are adamant about 'keeping' scenes, dialogue, voice overs, FX etc., all you have to do is put in your original SE DVD and they are all there intact for your viewing pleasure.

But, if you are like me, and cannot watch the SE without wanting to launch the DVD into the air and blow it to bits like a clay pigeon, then this edit is more for you. The SE created more problems then it fixed.

It's like replacing the Engine from a '52 Chevy Corvette with a Ford Mustang when the transmission was what was broken. Sure there are some out there who may think that this was a 'cool' idea. But it didn't address the issue, and it just doesn't run the same.

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I do agree with Fjodin that the additional Wampa scenes were probably one of the few worthwhile SE additions. It always seemed awkward that the Wampa was never shown in the OT - other than flashes of fur. So while you have decided to not include it, I am also one who would enjoy it if it were included as a bonus.

I agree that the Wampa should be kept consistent. We can always rationalize discrepancies with various theories (male/female, multiple Wampas) but those are just excuses for the defects in the original costumes (or so it appears to me - which also seems to be the root cause of nothing but flashes of fur).

I felt the Jedi Rocks sequence was atrocious so am happy to hear that the decision has been made to cut it out.

Fjodin's desire to have every corner of the films fleshed out is understandable but I agree with most others that less is usually better. One of the greatest things about ESB is the conservative approach taken in its effects so as to not overshadow the story. Digital effects often have a disturbingly cartoonish quality (e.g. Joh Yowza) that stands in sharp contrast to physical world they're inserted into.


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Sorry I havn't eben around but I'm gonna comment on a few things.

 

[u]Boba's Voice[/u]

 

Adywan has mentioned that perhaps when the prequels come out in better quality, he'll go back and redo them. How hard will it be to remove one line from the film saying that Boba is a clone of himself.

Not that hard.

I'm kinda for replacing the lines with the original voice, and then when you get to the prequels, remove that SINGLE line... and viola... all better...Now we dont' know who Boba's mother is... but do we need to know?  No.

 

And yes, voices have a bit to do with genetics, but yes, they have to do with the situation and how they are developed. As much as Boba loves his father and IS his father, he should have the same voice in that sense...

Especially if Jango is as notorious as he is. To be known as the son of Jango would be something he'd hold with pride.

 

Past that, I think that just removing the single line about Boba being Jango's clone, we can then just say the voice is different becuase he is a different person...

 

 

 

As far as changes to the film, The suggestion terminal is updated as much as I can, but a lot of what people are suggesting and bogging Adywan's time down with are suggestions that have been made and are already on the list.

 

I just thought I should say that maybe people should check that before they post... it might help.

 

As far as Dagobah, I kinda agree with you Ady however I'm almost certain there is a high res image of Dagobah from Episode III floating around online. I've seen it. I had it on my computer for some time...  But I agree.

 

However, I do think that Bespin should look different... yes, it's cloudy... but it should look more like a gas giant.  Maybe you could kinda get some of the colors off of the Episode III planet that Mustafar is floating around.

 

I don't mind the removal of a lot of the extra SE stuff for Empire... the wampa... Vader leaving for his shuttle and such. You could still incorporate, with some crafty editing, certain things, but I don't see the point. It's obvious Vader doesn't stay at Bespin lol...


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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RE the Wampa scenes -

If the issue of the shoulder vs. elbow cut on the arm could be resolved, I'd suggest to remove all SE Wampa additions with the exception of the ONE shot post-amputation after Luke himself sees the creature.  That way you get a good look at the Wampa without ruining the suspense of the scene - we only see the Wampa in its full "glory" after Luke does.

I'm fine either way, just thought it'd be a compromise - but, again, this is your edit, Ady, and if you don't like it, it shouldn't be there.

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Here's a potentially controversial suggestion which has always bothered me a little, I was reminded of it when I read someone on another site making the same observation.

If we look at the opening crawl there is one obvious error:

It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy.

Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.

The evil lord Darth Vader obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space....

 

Luke was not the leader of the rebels so to say he led the group who established the base is vastly inaccurate, this bothers me every time I watch Empire but I'm not really sure if I'd want it changed or if there is a good way to change it.

as I see it there are a couple of options

you could change it to read "led by Princess Leia" which would be more accurate but would necesitate changing the third paragraph to "obsessed with finding Luke Skywalker", but as a whole I don't think that reads as well, changing it to "obsessed with finding the rebel base" reads better but doesn't give us the right information.

the other option would be to change it so it doesn't say "led by" so maybe it could be "a group of freedom fighters including Luke Skywalker" or something to that effect maybe "joined by" or "accompanied by"

as I said the main reason I don't really think it should be changed is because I can't think of a better way to phrase it, but maybe someone else can.

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I just want to throw in another option although I'm pretty sure you're just going to restore the original version of the Wampa scene. I'm thinking of some kind of compromise. So, based on Ziz's picture comparison...

Keep GOUT3, remove SE7a&b, keep SE15, and remove SE23a.

I really dislike the Wampa's appearance in 21. It isn't necessary and you probably don't want to, but is it possible to remove it? Does it disrupt the flow drastically?

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seven said:

I am sorry, but I cannot help wounder why we seem to be going back over the same 'arguments' over and over again.

I think some seem to be forgetting the purpose of Adywan's edit. This edit was started 'cuz the SE was a disappointment for him as well as a lot of people (to put it mildly).

It's Adywan's edit. If he says he hates a scene and wants to cut or change it, it's his prerogative. If you disagree, that's OK, but provide a convincing argument or alternative helpful suggestion, but to keep using the "...because I like it" counter argument just isn't going to get anywhere.

If you love the SE additions, and are adamant about 'keeping' scenes, dialogue, voice overs, FX etc., all you have to do is put in your original SE DVD and they are all there intact for your viewing pleasure.

But, if you are like me, and cannot watch the SE without wanting to launch the DVD into the air and blow it to bits like a clay pigeon, then this edit is more for you. The SE created more problems then it fixed.

It's like replacing the Engine from a '52 Chevy Corvette with a Ford Mustang when the transmission was what was broken. Sure there are some out there who may think that this was a 'cool' idea. But it didn't address the issue, and it just doesn't run the same.

Finally!!! Some-one finally pipes up thats singing from the same hymn sheet maybe there, possibly (as i didnt get the muscle car reference)???

And, you 'may' sound like an a*se licker just by saying so. But, spoken from the heart, so amen, brother ;-)