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Just for completion sake here was my post on the subject.
Ripplin said:
I like the idea of the entrance to the meditation room either being guarded or extended (like in vaderios' old mock-up) being brought up again. Makes sense that it would be more secluded, not open so that every no-name Imperial noob could see Vader in his big black egg as they walk by, especially if he has his helmet off.
Or at least another set of doors behind Piett to serve as an airlock... Vader is in that suit for a reason, and to have one set of doors where everyone's germs can get in and infect him (being that the pod was open for Piett to see his knarly head BEFORE the helmet was lowered and re-attached to his suit) wouldn't serve a Sith Lord too well if the one thing that killed him was the common flu.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Good idea. Still i dont know if the running time can show/reveal the dual door concept in motion. Even Bingo's idea for an elevator can be easily a good solution but i prefer the perspective do its job and show as subtle as possible what the shot has to provide :D
-Angel
Here is another mock-up as far as the general gist of my direction:
Now I'm not saying you would necessarily see the "Piett door", much less have it OPEN when Vader is talking to the Emperor... but the mock-up (as sloppy as it is) is to create the overall impression of what could be done to indicate the meditation room as connected to the holo room.
I guess a couple of points to bring up too:
(1) will the holo room walls be toned to grey to match the meditation room wall colors?
(2) will there be anything coming out of the "red lights" on the posts to indicate the hologram projector(s) (nothing as harsh as say when R2 projects a hologram, but maybe have the red lights turn brighter blue and flicker a bit - even if there is no hint of a projector beam - just to show that the holo-room is on and active).
I can also understand if any of that (regarding the hologram projector beams/lights) would cause distraction, as the main point of the scene is the conversation not the FX.
Angel: actually, I was the one who offered the elevator idea. Here is my mock-up (I think it was me.. maybe we had the same idea... damn old age):
Frankly, this would be the simplest thing to do, as it could place the room anywhere on the Executor (far away or near the bridge), give Vader an airlock/privacy and wouldn't involve creating any extensive FX work (okay, a TON of FX work).
The door behind Piett could be shown closing as the doorway he is in now opens, or there could be a slight lag whereupon the white light panels on either side of Piett give a slight glow of red and turn green.. then the doors open and Piett comes in (indicating the airlock is sealed on the other side and/or Piett has been decontaminated).
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
I dont think That ady will add even the slightest indication of PT stuff to the flawless ESB for the sake of it (:P)
The whole theory of in your face effects or the movie needs to talk to you or adding something to story are not for revisited. otherwise many other great ideas were in place :P
Im aware the wall color if should be grayier. Imp mentioned that ady did make a reference about that change but i cant recall.
Sorry for the misplaced idea about bingo and monro :P
-Angel
I think for some changes, we have to think about the old 'doing it just because we can' thing that needs to be avoided. Some ideas sort of straddle that line. Has Ady ever given a flat 'yes' or 'no' on the meditation door thing? (I believe he said no on a long hallway, but that last pic Monro added looks like a nice, simple solution to me)
I believe he said no to the longer hallway, and no to the added step or whatever to the current side shot. So really, I think this whole conversation is moot (at least its on topic?).
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I was surprised to see it brought up again, but then, a lot of old topics come and go several times over the course of the editing. :)
Just for completion sake here was my post on the subject.
doubleofive said:
I believe he said no to the longer hallway, and no to the added step or whatever to the current side shot. So really, I think this whole conversation is moot (at least its on topic?).
Damn i remembering the post about considering the idea and he had some ideas about it ages ago. Care to remember us when he said no?
-Angel
My 2¢: I like the idea of either an antechamber or elongated hallway. Either serves to make Vader's meditation room seem more isolated and imposing, and therefore threatening.
I wish I could remember what Ady said on the subject, alas 865 pages worth of information is a lot to keep track of.
“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers
Maybe I was mistaken on the "no", but I'm sure changing something else that no one has ever thought about until we went through the movie frame-by-frame that isn't high on his list when he has so much other stuff on his plate, especially since his computer just died altogether.vaderios said:
doubleofive said:Damn i remembering the postabout considering the idea and he had some ideas about it ages ago. Care to remember us when he said no?
I believe he said no to the longer hallway, and no to the added step or whatever to the current side shot. So really, I think this whole conversation is moot (at least its on topic?).
-Angel
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I hope for the best of the changes 005 :)
-Angel
I hope Ady's computer comes back to life.
My thing is it would make sense that there would be an airlock of a sort attached to the entrance of Vader's chamber, due to his medical condition. You could say that the meditation pod would serve that function, but being that it is wide open with Vader helmet-less (to provide Piett and the audience a gross Vader head shot), it kind of defeats that purpose.
I would consider the "doing it because you can" to be near a frivolous change with no logical merit (not that adding something of yourself is off-limits, as one of the purposes of fan edits is to be creative and add a bit of yourself to the movie... especially considering that most of us won't have a chance at directing movies, much less big-budget ones).
One could consider the planet the DS1 orbits in ANH:R to be a DIBYC, but it also helps establish consistency with JEDI as well as help showcase the presence of the Empire as an expansive force.
Regardless of what is added or subtracted, the main considerations are:
(1) does it help the flow of the storytelling (edits, visuals, etc)
(2) does it make logical sense (the side of the Executor being darkened and the windows being brighter and bluer to match continuity with the other model shots)
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Why would Vader's chamber be so isolated like it was specifically built into the ship? Vader was not the leader of the Empire. He wasn't even necessarily respected by his inferiors. They feared him, but as we saw in ANH, some even mocked him and his beliefs. Only after the prequels do we now consider Vader the most important person in the entire galaxy, but that is not how it originally was meant to be. I think it makes more sense for his meditation chamber to be just a room where they put his life-support pod, close-at-hand because he needed it. But they didn't build the entire Executor around it.
Thats why im keep saying the differences about the ANH vader and the ESB Vader. Total different characters. Most if not all the later vaders were established by the ESB one.
After all its vader's ship. Or at least it has been established with that way.
Why not the 10+ km beast cant have a special location for his owner that is the second in command in the galaxy?
Imagine something like Jedi could happened if vader were meditating in his privare rooms..
-Angel
doubleofive said:
Besides, there's no reason to not have it stay where it was physically on the set, besides the made up reasons we have.
I very much agree.
vaderios said:
Thats why im keep saying the differences about the ANH vader and the ESB Vader. Total different characters.
Totally different?
I always just assumed that he got promoted. With his new position, no one could tell him who he could and couldn't choke.
Promoted for what? Getting the Death Star blown up? Sounds like the Bush Administration!
Bingowings said:
I hope Ady's computer comes back to life.
He posted the exact motherboard name/specs, but he's not sure he wants to replace it with another one that's exactly the same. I'd be wary too.
asterisk8 said:
Promoted for what? Getting the Death Star blown up? Sounds like the Bush Administration!
He got promoted through attrition.
Ripplin said:
Bingowings said:
I hope Ady's computer comes back to life.
He posted the exact motherboard name/specs, but he's not sure he wants to replace it with another one that's exactly the same. I'd be wary too.
Intel Sandy Bridge time?! ;p
Just kidding.
Hope he gets it all sorted, as Ady's computer HAS to be up for the job, or all is doomed. >:(
Isnt that odd that in the I am your father talk the blue rim light that lights vader constantly changes sides between the close ups and in several far shots are not there?
I hope the color correction fixed that.
Since ady removed the Blue cast/rim light from look in this shot i see why not on vader too.
EDIT: I was browsing again the first page of this topic and i re watch some of the comparison images. Probably outdated.
Still some of the bespin/falcon shots brought again my attention.
You can notice that when the falcon is landed it has no had contrasts while some of the further buildings have. Will the gradient between the atmospheres be more correct and the depth maps should be more accurate?
The old mattes have that haze more correctly placed but not perfect.
-Angel
asterisk8 said:
Promoted for what? Getting the Death Star blown up? Sounds like the Bush Administration!
If we are to point fingers, Tarkin is the one responsible for the Death Star I fiasco for not taking the Rebel attack more seriously, even after being warned; in that scenario, it makes sense the Emperor would punish the Imperial staff by placing Vader above of them on the hierarchy with a 'license to kill'.
corellian77 said:
My 2¢: I like the idea of either an antechamber or elongated hallway. Either serves to make Vader's meditation room seem more isolated and imposing, and therefore threatening.
I wish I could remember what Ady said on the subject, alas 865 pages worth of information is a lot to keep track of.
corellian77, turns out that recent link to Bingowing's own thoughts on the issue ended up pinpointing the pages showing everything that was said at the time on the subject.
Seems it was first brought up by vaderios way back on page 267...and the various viewpoints for-and-against the 'meditation chamber's entrance' shot being made to look more 'isolated' from the 'bridge' went back-and-forth over the course of 10 pages until page 276!
Here are adywan's 3 responses on the issue at the time, from pages 267, 268, and 273 respectively, which I couldn't recall properly either, but may clarify things a little for everyone -
adywan said:
i don't think this needs changing, wouldn't it make better sense if this chamber was close to the bridge instead of being deep within the bowels of the ship? I can't help thinking of the scene in spaceballs if Vader needed to get to the bridge in a hurry if he was so far away from it in his chamber. lol
adywan said:
i,m actually in two minds about this now. i'm starting to like the idea of having it a bit more isolated. hmmm, what to do. lol
adywan said:
as for vaders chamber, i do like the corridor idea abut not an airlock or lift. He wouldn't need a sterile environment so his wounds wouldn't get infected because they would have healed after all this time. i've always thought that the actual meditation unit had some sort of inbuilt force field protecting Vader when he has his mask off and that his breathing apparatus was linked into it's systems which would allow him to have his mask off for short periods of time. i won't be doing any changes to that apart from the entrance.
However, just *how much* things will change in the shot remains to be seen, but for anyone wishing to see what was discussed at the time, here's where it started on page 267 - http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-CHRISTMAS-CLIP-NOW-AVAILABLE/post/348536/#TopicPost348536 , before it ended up being resumed on page 863 a couple of pages back.
sluggo and doubleofive - thanks for re-posting that behind-the-scenes exterior shot of the guarded 'chamber' entrance recently, by the way...as that helped me at the time (along with certain comments) to work out the new way I am now going to look on this whole scene in future...so that things can make total sense 'time-wise' to me by the time we cut to the full shot of Vader later descending from the direction of the 'chamber', without it seeming jarring. And the lucky thing for me is, it can still work whether adywan changes the background of the existing shot of Piett's entrance, or not... :)
I'll go into that properly, to see what others think, when I have enough time soon. In the meantime, I thought I'd post these for anyone here that hasn't seen them yet, as I love the camera-angles and details shown in them -