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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 760

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I was under the impression that the Hoth base wasn't the entire Rebel Alliance (it's just a small band of freedom fighters) after Yavin they split up a grew in number. That way the fleet massing at the end of ESB and getting bigger by ROTJ makes sense (where were these other ships if the whole Alliance operation had just moved from Yavin to Hoth?).

So (if that is the case) Leia isn't in charge of the whole Alliance just the small band on Hoth.

I know the crawl says Luke is in command but that doesn't tally with anything we see in the film (possibly that should change to make sense of what we actually see).

As for these edit suggestions why don't you give it a rough go and see if it works?

Put it up on Youtube so we can get your angle.

Even if Ady doesn't go for it someone else might if it actually makes an improvement but instinctively I just can't see it.

Luke already takes out a walker against great odds.

Having him take out Veers to delay the inevitable destruction of the generator makes little sense to me as we need the generator to blow for Vader to turn up only to be frustrated at the escape of the Falcon (which he spends much of the rest of the film in pursuit of).

ESB is a really well plotted film there isn't much if anything I would take out or put in (from the theatrical release plot).

ESB:R seems to be more about putting a shine on our memories of this brilliantly put together film (which the other films need major surgery just keep up with).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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thejediknighthusezni said:

   Alright, how 'bout this?

I totally think you should take these ideas and make your own fan edit with them. That would be the best way to achieve your vision of Star Wars. Ady had little/no editing skill before he started the Revisited project, and look at him now! You're not really going to sway anyone here by presenting a dramatically reinterpreted vision of the OT. It's not really that your ideas are "bad", but they are incompatible with what Adywan is trying to achieve.

 

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I whole heartily agree with 005 and Bravo Zulu.
Cutting out Leia parts in either ANH or ESB would be almost blasphemous. She's the one girl amongst men, and has more balls than the majority of them. ROTJ is a whole other story, since she prefers tagging along with teddy bears instead of kicking shins like she used to.

I'm convinced Ady isn't going to change anything in the opening scenes along the lines thejediknighthusezni mentioned. That would totally destroy everything. The Ion Cannon sequence in particular is perfect the way it is. I nearly fell off my seat the first time I saw that one (no kidding), and couldn't stop cheering after I saw the Star Destroyer tip over.

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Bingowings said:

I was under the impression that the Hoth base wasn't the entire Rebel Alliance (it's just a small band of freedom fighters) after Yavin they split up a grew in number. That way the fleet massing at the end of ESB and getting bigger by ROTJ makes sense (where were these other ships if the whole Alliance operation had just moved from Yavin to Hoth?).

So (if that is the case) Leia isn't in charge of the whole Alliance just the small band on Hoth.

I know the crawl says Luke is in command but that doesn't tally with anything we see in the film (possibly that should change to make sense of what we actually see).

The Battle of Hoth was a big catalyst to the Rebellion getting to the size that it did.  For example, the Mon Calamari did not join the Rebellion until the time in between Empire and Jedi.  They are the race who brought those big star cruisers to the Battle of Endor.

And yes, the crawl does suggest that Luke is the leader.  I think it was hyperbolic thinking, shocking as it might be that GL would allow himself to be self-contradictory!  It's been suggested that GL and only GL wrote all of the crawls for all of the movies.

Explains a lot.

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Jacen said:

And yes, the crawl does suggest that Luke is the leader.  I think it was hyperbolic thinking, shocking as it might be that GL would allow himself to be self-contradictory!  It's been suggested that GL and only GL wrote all of the crawls for all of the movies.

Well he IS a leader technically. Commander is pretty high rank (the only ranks above that for ground troops are Colonel and General). Even if he does not lead the rebellion or even Echo Base he is a hero for them (shot proton torpedoes in the DS exhaust port without a targetting computer) and a strong symbol of hope ("yay the Jedi are NOT totally gone!")

The rebels don't all take orders from him, but they certainly do look up to him.

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Suggesting cutting out ANY dialog from TESB is IMO on the point of heresy.

What I think would be cool though would be to show the two transports leaving HOTH and show one of them actually being destroyed => they couldn't protect two trasports at a time. It would require a lot of model shooting in order not to repeat the same shot againg but it would be cool IMO.

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LOL.. Heresy? Blasphemy? What is ESB? some kind of religion or God? Please...

All ideas are welcome. Maybe not for ESB:R but for any other edits in the future. The vision of perfectness can be different from person to person. I support radical edits :)

Lets listen them to ESB and ROTJ Wishlist


-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Harmy said:

Suggesting cutting out ANY dialog from TESB is IMO on the point of heresy.

I agree. Let's just leave it at that, let Ady do what he does best, and let's leave the suggestions for other edits/editors, as vaderios said.

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thejediknighthusezni , Greats ideas... For an edit called "The Empire Struck Through"...! :)

 

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euroherbal said:

Are we just carrying ourselves away, letting time pass until we read again some news from our beloved Ady? :)

 

Pretty much.......

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asterisk8 said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

   Alright, how 'bout this?

I totally think you should take these ideas and make your own fan edit with them. That would be the best way to achieve your vision of Star Wars. Ady had little/no editing skill before he started the Revisited project, and look at him now! You're not really going to sway anyone here by presenting a dramatically reinterpreted vision of the OT. It's not really that your ideas are "bad", but they are incompatible with what Adywan is trying to achieve.

 

 This is a good suggestion.....

Matticon

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A B C said:

 

thejediknighthusezni , Greats ideas... For an edit called "The Empire Struck Through"...! :)

 

 Or perhaps, The Umpire Strikes Out?  :)

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Bingowings said:

It's a classic case of the lady and the laddie protesting too much (and the counter opposite of the rubbish romance in the PT)

"You annoy the hell out of me"

"No you annoy the hell out of me more"

"Screw you, you, you delicious she devil"

"You start first and I'll join in later"

 

I don't know how many people here watch movies that were made before 1977 but a LOT of the Han/Leia interplay in TESB is taken from Gone With The Wind.  Watch it if you think I'm talking out of my hat.  Heck, the poster for TESB pretty much duplicates Gable/Leigh in the GWTW poster.

Lucas didn't make all this stuff up, he took from all sorts of things:

 

Flash Gordon (couldn't buy the rights to re-make it)

Hidden Fortress

Dune

Wizard of Oz

Metropolis

and a lot else: himself even.  Anyone watch the end of THX1138 and compare it to the chase at the end of Star Wars?  Then there's recent events, nods to Vietnam in the CT and GWB in the PT.  Don't make this more than it is. George Lucas WAS the OG of sampling.  

*** sarcasm mode ON *** You wanna know why SW was a hit in '77?  Han Solo = Elvis, Chewie = Bigfoot.  The man knows his pop culture stuff and was really good at making movie mashups of it all.  that's all.  George Lucas is the Phil Retrospector of SF movie mashups, that's it.  *** sarcasm mode OFF***  Oh, and adywan deserves an Oscar for his work on E4.

 

Long time reader first time poster signing off.

 

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Good first post, regularjoe!  And hopefully not the last.

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vaderios said:

LOL.. Heresy? Blasphemy? What is ESB? some kind of religion or God? Please...

All ideas are welcome. Maybe not for ESB:R but for any other edits in the future. The vision of perfectness can be different from person to person. I support radical edits :)

Lets listen them to ESB and ROTJ Wishlist


-Angel

   Yeah, thanks.

I read some posts by and about Adywan. Seemed to indicate he was considering some more aggressive edits than anything in ANH:R. In retrospect, it might all have been speculation about ROTJ (Which desperately needs very aggressive edits.)

   My post was unclear. I didn't mean 2 actual minutes, I meant action movie compressed impression of time. Sorry. I clocked it, and it didn't seem disruptive to me. I think a clever editor could work it out.

   I expected a princess. I got a military commander. Didn't ring 100% right with me. Everything should be perfect in ESB. Willing to consider anything that addresses that, as long as it improves pace, tension etc...

   I love every second in ANH. Adywan produces ANH:R. If everyone on the planet loves every second of ESB, and an editor comes up with a change, no matter how tame or more "radical"  than the element it replaces, is there any other question than "Does it improve?" I think it's like beauty, more objective than subjective. I think that makes consensus possible- If everyone will put aside thoughts like "Have to maintain what Kersh did." You all have what kersh did. Check your bonus discs.

   There are things Kersh didn't do. Leia doesn't say one word to Luke on Hoth. Except for the mash kiss directed at Han, Leia has no interaction with the guy she's supposed to dearly love. Luke is going out to fight walkers and there is no embrace in a passage, no words of caring, no fearful wince when Luke's name is called on a receiver in the C.C. - no indication she even knows Luke still exists.   What was more important than any of that? From my first viewing it didn't feel right. Good thing the story was such a downer in the end. Nothing felt right.  

    But ESB is truly a masterpiece that moved me profoundly as a kid. Kersh is truly brilliant.

   For all that bruhaha. I only have four points for ESB (5, if you count having Luke run into a TIE fighter or anything before the Imperials...um...leave.)

 I'll take it to wishlists. I'll post my ROTJ list too. Then you can all indignantly shout "BUT YOU CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING LUCAS/MARQUAND DID!!" :)

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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thejediknighthusezni said:

 

... I'll post my ROTJ list too. Then you can all indignantly shout "BUT YOU CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING LUCAS/MARQUAND DID!!" :)

On the contrary: you can change everything !... But please, if you could begin by removing the ugly make-up from Mr Hammil's face throughout the whole movie. Only this would be a huge improvement !

 

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thejediknighthusezni said:

I expected a princess. I got a military commander. Didn't ring 100% right with me.

She was much more of a military leader than a princess. Especially when we get to Empire. Her planet has been destroyed, so she isn't even a princess anymore. The "Princess" thing was used heavily in ANH because she was claiming she had no ties to the rebellion- which of course was a lie. She grew up with the founders of the rebellion, so she's been a part of this her entire life. Also, giving orders hardly takes military experience. In that scene she is merely passing on information/orders.

 

Also, I've seen several posts about Luke and Leia's kiss in ESB and how it should be cut, or cut the revelation that she's his sister in ROTJ to avoid some kind of incestuous overtones. If anybody really thinks there was some kinda "love triangle" between Luke Leia and Han, then I doubt they've ever had much luck with the ladies. The moment Luke meets Leia it is clear that she has no romantic interest in him yet the moment she meets Han, the sparks fly- lot's of sarcasm and bickering (which is usually flirting) but it also leads to some off hand compliments ("you're braver than i thought."). I mean, sure, Luke was attracted to her and all, but there was never a moment where it seemed that they would end up together.

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Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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thejediknighthusezni said:

I read some posts by and about Adywan. Seemed to indicate he was considering some more aggressive edits than anything in ANH:R. In retrospect, it might all have been speculation about ROTJ (Which desperately needs very aggressive edits.)

I'm not sure what posts you have been reading, but nowhere does Ady say he's going to do an aggressive re-edit of ESB. He knows it doesn't need it. What he is doing is restoring it back to the way it was before the needless additions of the Special Editions, while also enhancing the effects and visuals. (No more blue Tie Fighters, more speeders in flight)

   My post was unclear. I didn't mean 2 actual minutes, I meant action movie compressed impression of time. Sorry. I clocked it, and it didn't seem disruptive to me. I think a clever editor could work it out.

Your suggestions would alter the editing and the pace, trying to fix what's not broken.

   I expected a princess. I got a military commander. Didn't ring 100% right with me. Everything should be perfect in ESB. Willing to consider anything that addresses that, as long as it improves pace, tension etc...

The only time Leia acted like a princess in ANH was at the end when she gave out the medals. Before she said one word in the movie, she was blasting stormtroopers. Then she's mouthing off to Vader and Tarkin. When she first meets Luke she knocks him down a notch ("...aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?") and lets Han have it ("When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out?!").

A little later she explains to Han, in no uncertain terms: "I don't know who you are, or where you came from, but from now on, you do as I tell you, okay?"

All of her dialogue in ANH shows her to have a sharp, tactical mind, well aware and versed military issues.  ("The technical readouts of that battlestation... I only hope when the data is analyzed a weakness can be found... it's not over yet.")

This was her characterization in ANH, why would her characterization change in ESB?

   I love every second in ANH. Adywan produces ANH:R. If everyone on the planet loves every second of ESB, and an editor comes up with a change, no matter how tame or more "radical"  than the element it replaces, is there any other question than "Does it improve?" I think it's like beauty, more objective than subjective. I think that makes consensus possible- If everyone will put aside thoughts like "Have to maintain what Kersh did." You all have what kersh did. Check your bonus discs.

ESB is already the best film of the saga, ESB:R will only make it more so. This is like taking a classic car and giving it a tune-up a new paint job, with wax and detailing to then show it off again.

Ady is staying true to what Kersh did. I guarantee if Kersh gets the chance to see it, he would completely approve (that is if he is allowed to say so)

   There are things Kersh didn't do. Leia doesn't say one word to Luke on Hoth. Except for the mash kiss directed at Han, Leia has no interaction with the guy she's supposed to dearly love. Luke is going out to fight walkers and there is no embrace in a passage, no words of caring, no fearful wince when Luke's name is called on a receiver in the C.C. - no indication she even knows Luke still exists.   What was more important than any of that? From my first viewing it didn't feel right. Good thing the story was such a downer in the end. Nothing felt right.  

As Ray points out, there really is no "love triangle". Leia never demonstrates anything more than platonic love for Luke. The kiss in ANH, was "for luck" and the kiss in ESB was to make Han jealous.

I guess we may have found a Star Wars fan who doesn't "get" The Empire Strikes Back. I had heard they existed, but have never met one until now :P

    But ESB is truly a masterpiece that moved me profoundly as a kid. Kersh is truly brilliant.

   For all that bruhaha. I only have four points for ESB (5, if you count having Luke run into a TIE fighter or anything before the Imperials...um...leave.)

 I'll take it to wishlists. I'll post my ROTJ list too. Then you can all indignantly shout "BUT YOU CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING LUCAS/MARQUAND DID!!" :)

While I still love Jedi, even the "Lapti Nek" and the "Yub-Nub" song!, it still stands well below the other two films of the OT. Marquand was simply a "yes man" to Lucas. He was a capable director, but he was never in Kershner's league. ROTJ was much more Lucas' movie than it ever was Marquand's.

 

"Darth Vader... tall and threatening in his black helmet, flowing black cape, and a face, forever masked, by a foreboding metal breath screen...

Darth Vader... a figure, who moves forever in a cloud of awesome evil!"

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Long (sometimes pointless) posts make for mostly boring reading. And some wonder why first timers won't read every single one of them....Just saying.

FYI This comment is meant in general, not regarding any specific poster(s).

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At Bespin, in the 1980 version when Vader falls back in the carbonite chamber, he says "AAAARR". In the newer version (from 1997 and forward) he says "OOOF", the same line reprised as when Luke put the fog in Vaders face a short moment before. Is Adywan going back to the original line? I think that when you fall backwards, it's more likely that you actually say "AAAARR" instead of "OOOF"!

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Bravo Zulu said:

ESB is already the best film of the saga, ESB:R will only make it more so. This is like taking a classic car and giving it a tune-up a new paint job, with wax and detailing to then show it off again.
Well said sir. This is a true statement.

As for RotJR, there are no solid details. I would expect something more drastic than ESBR, probably more than ANHR even.

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ray_afraid said:

Also, I've seen several posts about Luke and Leia's kiss in ESB and how it should be cut, or cut the revelation that she's his sister in ROTJ to avoid some kind of incestuous overtones. If anybody really thinks there was some kinda "love triangle" between Luke Leia and Han, then I doubt they've ever had much luck with the ladies. The moment Luke meets Leia it is clear that she has no romantic interest in him yet the moment she meets Han, the sparks fly- lot's of sarcasm and bickering (which is usually flirting) but it also leads to some off hand compliments ("you're braver than i thought."). I mean, sure, Luke was attracted to her and all, but there was never a moment where it seemed that they would end up together.

 

The love triangle was played up very, very much in a lot of the popular press in the late 70's - the 'who would Leia end up with?' question was there in a lot of the magazines I saw back then and Lucasfilm didn't seem to do a whole lot to discourage this kind of speculation.  Watching these movies as they came out I can say all of my contemporaries were wondering what happened with that storyline when TESB came out and we saw it in the theatres.  I saw TESB in Milwaukee on the inital release (opening weekend), it was the only city in Wisconsin that had a 70mm setup and it played in other cities a bit later.  When I came back to school the following Monday there were three questions asked about the movie:

 

Do they really have a scene where Darth Vader tells Luke he is his dad, and do they clear it up before the movie ends?

 

Who does the Princess end up with?

 

Is Yoda any good...a puppet in Star Wars?  Ewww..

 

A lot of people go on about the whole brother sister thing with kind of an ICK overtone but I've always thought that the Star Wars universe is crawling with all sorts of sentient species. Look at all the different races presented in the first movie.  In a galaxy like that where humans are just one of a thousand species competing for resources you may not have an incest taboo that is as strongly defined as it is our society.   You don't even need competition for resources to relax that taboo - look at the intermarriage between the ruling families of Europe in the 1800's and early 1900's.  A lot of these people were more closely related than we may find acceptable today.

 

Than again, it's just a movie.

 

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Adywan, give us an update on your health....here's hoping you are doing better and feeling good.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.