I did...
As far as the SFX for that short sequence, I didn't boost them... but the rest of the sequence I restored the music in, I tweaked it so it would be in balance with the dialogue...
Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me
I agree with GM about the timing of the original score. The Taun Taun kind of seems evil with that music behind it, espcecially if you'd never seen it before.
But if its not getting put it in, I don't know if we need to spend more time on it. We should now be looking for a new cue for Vader's Meditation Chamber!
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I personally think that the alternative opening music is too busy, and frankly kind of distracting. It's nice (and typical of John Williams) but it just doesn't fit the mood of the scene. The music, as is, not only fits the scene well but it serves as a nice contrast to the opening of the first film which came in with guns blazing.
Would make an interesting alternative opening as a deleted scene though. :)
adywan said:
I've just had a look at your clips GoodMusician and it's i can now see why they didn't use the original score. it was definitely for a different edit of the opening. the music where the probe droid emerges does sound more like its for the the taun taun running than for the probe droid so maybe that wasn't revealed until after Luke was attacked. Also i think there may have been an extra shot of the probe flying through space. I've done a rough mock-up of the scene but slowed down some shots to fit the cues so they look odd. it would be so great if we could find some documentation of what the original edit was like.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LLCTKMOU
I do have to say though that i actually now prefer the fanfare at the end that what was originally intended. I'm probably going to keep that in and change the one at the end of the Vader meditation scene.
I'm sorry, but I don't get it..... Please reconsider before dumping the original opening music...this didn't sound like ESB AT ALL to me...
Sorry Ady....
I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.
vbangle said:
adywan said:
I've just had a look at your clips GoodMusician and it's i can now see why they didn't use the original score. it was definitely for a different edit of the opening. the music where the probe droid emerges does sound more like its for the the taun taun running than for the probe droid so maybe that wasn't revealed until after Luke was attacked. Also i think there may have been an extra shot of the probe flying through space. I've done a rough mock-up of the scene but slowed down some shots to fit the cues so they look odd. it would be so great if we could find some documentation of what the original edit was like.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LLCTKMOU
I do have to say though that i actually now prefer the fanfare at the end that what was originally intended. I'm probably going to keep that in and change the one at the end of the Vader meditation scene.
I'm sorry, but I don't get it..... Please reconsider before dumping the original opening music...this didn't sound like ESB AT ALL to me...
Sorry Ady....
vbangle, Adywan only said that he likes everything that is currently in the movie, except he wants to change the end of the Vader meditation scene. Nothing to freak out about, my friend.
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vbangle said:
adywan said:
I've just had a look at your clips GoodMusician and it's i can now see why they didn't use the original score. it was definitely for a different edit of the opening. the music where the probe droid emerges does sound more like its for the the taun taun running than for the probe droid so maybe that wasn't revealed until after Luke was attacked. Also i think there may have been an extra shot of the probe flying through space. I've done a rough mock-up of the scene but slowed down some shots to fit the cues so they look odd. it would be so great if we could find some documentation of what the original edit was like.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LLCTKMOU
I do have to say though that i actually now prefer the fanfare at the end that what was originally intended. I'm probably going to keep that in and change the one at the end of the Vader meditation scene.
I'm sorry, but I don't get it..... Please reconsider before dumping the original opening music...this didn't sound like ESB AT ALL to me...
Sorry Ady....
i'm not dumping the original music at all. the clip was just what i thought may have been the original edit to fit the unused music. But, now GoodMusician has proved otherwise, i really don't think the original intended music fits at all. I much prefer the way it is in the movie. That probe droid cue is horrible and too busy for what is a slow reveal scene of the emerging probe droid. I doubt i will be changing or adding any new music into ESB:R apart from that one repeat cue i mentioned in the meditation chamber scene
Well for what it's worth Musicman, I liked your edit. It really is a funky take on the beginning of the film. Gave it a whole new atmosphere. Which ever route Ady takes, it would be nice to have the full musical version on the DVD somewhere.
ChainsawAsh: wrote
--The original unused cue was meant to be played loud. Either it's incorporated they way it is or it's not used at all. Boosting the level of the sound FX is not a good idea either because you will loose the impact of the music.--
Where did that come from? Boosing the level of sound effects while lowering or boosting the level of the music is what sound mixing *is*! Music isn't played in a film at the levels it's composed at. In fact, volume levels often change dynamically throughout a cue to allow for dialogue, sound effects, or to emphasize certain points.
It would help greatly if someone, for the hell of it, would mix the new music in with the SFX/dialogue tracks while adjusting levels and such in consideration for what's happening on screen. In other words, if someone would mix the cue in properly so everyone could see what it *really* sounds/looks like.
I think you need to go back and read Ady's responce.
Reguarding your want of boosting levels to compensate the sound FX or vise versa, there is no reason to do that IMO. You change the impact of the music. GM stated why it was loud.
GoodMusician: wrote
Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights
I think we all need to settle a bit...this is Ady's edit. He's being kind enough to keep us informed and keep us in the loop and be a part of the creative process by letting us voice our opinions and concearns.
That having been said, I think that we've all kinda exhausted the argument about the music. I have a few more vids I'm going to post though just to show what I mean.
First vid: Since I apparently didn't mix the music right, here is a proper mixing of the original opening cue.
Second vid: This is to show what I meant when I said that the Alternate probe droid is not synced right in the film. The error, however, is somewhat unfixible. You would have to rebuild the SFX for one... and for two, there is a mix point between the two cues that is completely unreleased... and only heard in the film...a low, piano chord...almost a "bang" between the two... The fanfare at the end of the cue is not spoken about in Metassinos edit,but listening carefully, you can hear the hiss level of the music rise a bit as it leads into it which is a telltale sign that it's a different cue being mixed in/over the other... I think by the point it came time to write the alternate, Williams knew most of his music wasnt' being used, so he wrote an "insert," a not entirely uncommon practice as he even wrote one for Jedi latter for the Ewok battle..
The insert would be what he intended to be placed as Han enters echo base...
Film Alternate synced correctly
Third Vid: This video shows the Probe Droid Roncon sequence. It shows how that playful, strange music is meant to be for the probe Droid... although I do enjoy Ady's edit, removing the probe, I still think if you plan to do that, to omit the music that was meant to cover it.
Here's that video (plus the original edit of the presentation of the Imperial Fleet)
EDIT: I can't keep up with you all! Jeeze! lol
I think, if Ady would consider it, it might be cool to have the isolated score preserve what was intended... and maybe, as mentioned, alternates could be listed under deleted scenes as being (alternate mixes) or some such...
As for the feeling behind the two, I agree that the quieter is the more apropriate... but I still feel that the louder one FITS the film better.
What I've learned through studying film music is that there are maybe 3 ways of going about composing the music.
1) To create a sort of "directors chair" version of the film. This is music that is more like mood music, it sits behind the film, and explains the scenes to an extent while not really ineracting with them. This is the USUAL Williams approach.
2) To create a sort of "looney tunes" version. What I mean by that is in Looney Tunes, when someone hits someone over the head or falls off a cliff, the music notates this. Jerry Goldsmith was VERY much prolific in this sense (He even did the Looney Tunes Films lol). Cuts in the film are hightened by a change in music or a change in pace... explosions are notated with cymbol crashes...etc.
3) Explaining how the Audience should feel. This one is a bit harder to explain. It's closer to the first one, as it doesn't directly interact with the film, but at the same time, it speaks directly to the audience in trying to explain how or what they should be thinking/feeling.
IE: Jaws... hearing the 'daaa dum.... daaaa dum." They know something is coming.
The film version of Probe Droid is sort of this version. You don't really know what you're seeing going on... or how it relates... so you get this uneasy... but somewhat... "Ok?" feel to the music. An uneasyness and curiosity of "Where's this gonna go?"
The unused version is closer to the second and first. It uses the cuts in the film and the visuals to explode with music and show whats going on (perhaps kinda saying LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO WITH VISUALS NOW! lol) and at the same time, since it's from the empire, you know it can't be good... I think almost of spiders when I hear the music for the probe droid coming out of the hole. This version, however, almost tells you "This can't be good."
Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me
So, Ady, back to the most recent split screen preview. I assume you changed the shot of the power generator to better match the image sent back to the Imperial Fleet. But looking at the image that Vader and Co are looking at, there seems to be a turret near the generator. What say you?
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doubleofive said:
So, Ady, back to the most recent split screen preview. I assume you changed the shot of the power generator to better match the image sent back to the Imperial Fleet. But looking at the image that Vader and Co are looking at, there seems to be a turret near the generator. What say you?
oh yeh, didn't spot that. i'll redo the new matte. Thanks for pointing that out :)
It seems that all computer screens in OT shake a little bit. I hate that. I notice it right away. Luke X-wing screen text shaking has already been mentioned. The power generator image Vader is seeing also shakes a little bit. I hope Adywan will fix all unsteady displays.
adywan said:
oh yeh, didn't spot that. i'll redo the new matte. Thanks for pointing that out :)
It's like interactive movies! Like I was telling ImperialFighter the other day, I wish that "real" movies took suggestions and gave previews like this...
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Joshua_Blue said:
It seems that all computer screens in OT shake a little bit. I hate that. I notice it right away. Luke X-wing screen text shaking has already been mentioned. The power generator image Vader is seeing also shakes a little bit. I hope Adywan will fix all unsteady displays.
yeh i'm hoping to do something about that. the one thing i want to know about the shot of the viewscreen just mentioned is, whats the deal with the guys pulsating hand?
I've never noticed the hand before, but now it looks downright creepy! I have no idea what's that all about :D, maybe he's making a fist and releasing it...
I don't know if this has been covered before, but with the color correction and effects enhancements, are they done in chronological order, or grouped together by doing all Hoth scenes, all space scenes, all Bespin scenes and so on?
Continuing to be amazed by all I've seen so far...
are they done in chronological order, or grouped together by doing all Hoth scenes, all space scenes, all Bespin scenes and so on?
Isn't that basically the same thing? Once they leave one planet, they're on to the next.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
NL197 said:I don't know if this has been covered before, but with the color correction and effects enhancements, are they done in chronological order, or grouped together by doing all Hoth scenes, all space scenes, all Bespin scenes and so on?
for the colour correction its done in chronological order. when i get to a scene thats in an environment (for example outdoor snow scenes in daylight) seen in a previous scene i can overlay the previous scene and use that as a reference to match the colouring. the effects are done in any order really. it all depends on how difficult a shot is and if i can't get a shot right then i move on to another easier one then go back to the other one at a later date
could the pulsating hand be similar to the tusken raider waving his stick in ANH, ie footage that is played, reversed, played etc?
Curious...ady... perhaps the turret should just be a smuldering stump because...well... my guess is that it didn't survive the onslought of the attack... ;-)
And also, in that same shot... there's an AT-AT that shoots a soldier and then it shoots the shield generator... do you think it would HONESTLY take the time to do that?
Maybe you should have another AT-AT... or an AT-ST shoot the soldier...
Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me
GoodMusician said:
there's an AT-AT that shoots a soldier and then it shoots the shield generator... do you think it would HONESTLY take the time to do that?
Odd, to be sure, but I've always liked it, partly because of the cool laser sounds and how busy that area looks. Besides, it takes all of two seconds for the whole thing.
A few suggestions:
- This would impact many shots, and many of them are blurry shots of Han running, so this could be very difficult to do convincingly.
Dak's helmet - You did a great job with color correcting these in A New Hope, but they did it again in Empire:
Snowspeeder markings - there are numerous examples of this, but this images are indicitive:
I played with adding an orange stripe to the front of this speeder.
Luke doesn'r really look like he's in this shot. The lighting doesn't match, the registration was poor, and there's no shadow effect under him.
nice suggestions... all noted...
Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me
GoodMusician said:
... or an AT-ST shoot the soldier...
I have to say, I like that idea. I've always been for adding more AT-ST's to Hoth, and that would be a very good place for one.
I've just been watching the GOUT ESB and there's an error which I'm pretty sure made it into the SE and which (at least according to GM's suggestions thread) hasn't yet been mentioned. The first shot after the walker blows up the power generator has Han and Leia running in a corridor inside the base, and there's a shining lamp on the wall. Perhaps the generator is supposed to be a shield generator, but it's referred to as a power generator at least most of the time in the film, and I quite like the idea of seeing this lamp flicker and die and then having all the shots in the base darkened. I realise this would take a lot of painting out of lights in the subsequent minute or so, so an alternative might be to have the lamp flicker off and then come on dimmer, as an emergency generator kicks in.
Another request is when the Star Destroyers collide, to have more camera shake and perhaps some visual effects in the window to show them actually colliding, even if it's just flashes from unseen explosions (which would probably be more effective than directly seeing them).