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Adding a degree of noise to indicate the ice mist and falling snow which still would fall infront of a close view might give it a bit more depth.
HotRod said:Ooooh!! I like that arrangement!! Very subtle and not too in your face different!
And does solve the problem of Adymans music score becoming an 'edit - copy - paste' like AOTC's bloody movie soundtrack. What a shambles that was!!
Yes , HotRod, you're right. I hope others would write comments on that arrangement too, though. I know , it's not the picture it's the sound but anyway.... not less important
Well, I prefer the score as is in the movie for that sequence. The concert arrangement has a very full, ominous sound, while the originally scored piece seems somewhat "smaller" to me....
O.T. or No T., baby!™
In regards to the close-up AT-AT head shots:
I concur that the snow could be removed from the AT-AT headshots, but would you consider showing the crew INSIDE the head through the window (or at least something to indicate there is something/someone inside)? I guess that is one of the main reasons I loved the red cockpit idea. Even without the "red", to add some lighting in the cockpit with something there to indicate it is a working head and not a solid model would be nice to see.
You may want to also blacken the holes on all 6 guns where the lasers come out (the second shot isn't as bad, but the first one you can tell they are a little "model-ly" in how solid the barrels look). Also, is it just me, or is the head model a little "rough around the edges", at least in that first shot (notice the area right above the 2 lower guns and how the front face plate with the window seems to be angled/sliding down to the left compared to the rest of the head)? Another thing could be to add some texturing to the head to help increase the scale.
To add to the "more lasers" issue, maybe you could have the upper side guns shoot lasers along with the longer barreled side guns, or even make them more like mini-guns for close-in defense - you could even have the small gun barrels "spin" when they fire off a laser burst. Even so, you could still retain the 4 laser firing rate for all long distance shots by keeping the smaller side guns for close defense.
Also also, no biggie on this one but an extra idea none the less. Whether the AT-ATs are powered by fusion, fission, coal, or harsh language, I was wondering if you had smoke or steam coming out of either the tail pipe or panels on the AT-AT as the engine vents as the vehicle moves. I don't know how that would look (and definitely not something necessary), but just another idea to throw out there.
Triple also: in regards to the "AT-AT death by hand grenade "scene - a good reference as to how to modify the explosion would be the destruction of the Enterprise in STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK. You could extend the AT-AT death a few seconds (nothing major) by showing the side paneling venting some of the internal explosion as the skin almost evaporates. You could also show:
(a) the central engine fall from the bottom before the AT-AT makes it's leftward fall
(b) show snowtroopers jumping out the side hatch on fire as they try to escape.
(c) definitely modify/ re-film the head explosion
(d) add sparks and internal electrical fires within the smoky neck area or even take the far-off flaming Enterprise shot from ST3 (when it is entering the atmosphere) and blend it with the neck, so when the AT-AT makes its fall you have a nice trail of flames coming from the neck where the head used to be (as opposed to just smoke)
(e) making elements of the explosion "bigger" by making the flames appear .. not smaller per se, but you know how a massive fire looks coming from a building or airplane as opposed to a model 2 to 5 feet tall.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Savage said:Well, I prefer the score as is in the movie for that sequence. The concert arrangement has a very full, ominous sound, while the originally scored piece seems somewhat "smaller" to me....
I have to agree it felt flat to me and without the same emotional impact as the final release version
Bingowings said: Do you want to see the project finished as a playable film or a flick book?
Monroville said:In regards to the close-up AT-AT head shots:
I concur that the snow could be removed from the AT-AT headshots, but would you consider showing the crew INSIDE the head through the window (or at least something to indicate there is something/someone inside)?
You may want to also blacken the holes on all 6 guns where the lasers come out (the second shot isn't as bad, but the first one you can tell they are a little "model-ly" in how solid the barrels look). Also, is it just me, or is the head model a little "rough around the edges", at least in that first shot (notice the area right above the 2 lower guns and how the front face plate with the window seems to be angled/sliding down to the left compared to the rest of the head)? Another thing could be to add some texturing to the head to help increase the scale.
To add to the "more lasers" issue, maybe you could have the upper side guns shoot lasers along with the longer barreled side guns (maybe make them more like mini-guns for close-in defense [you could even have the small gun barrels "spin" when they fire off a laser burst], thus all the long range shots retain the 4 laser firing rate)
Yes! Blacken the gun holes will be a big up! I like the idea of some crew indication if the shot is long enough so the eye can see them.
What do you mean with the texturing?
-Angel
Adding a degree of noise to indicate the ice mist and falling snow which still would fall infront of a close view might give it a bit more depth.
vaderios said:Monroville said:In regards to the close-up AT-AT head shots:
Yes! Blacken the gun holes will be a big up! I like the idea of some crew indication if the shot is long enough so the eye can see them.
What do you mean with the texturing?
-Angel
Bingowings said:
Adding a degree of noise to indicate the ice mist and falling snow which still would fall infront of a close view might give it a bit more depth.
Well, not so much the ice and snow stuff, but the actual texture of the model panels on the head. Its like those wonderful GODZILLA movies from the 60's and 70's, where the models... well.. looked like models (due to lighting, detail on models as well as their size, etc.).
While the STAR WARS movies did a lot to improve the use of model effects, there are still those moments where the model "gives itself away" so to speak. The AT-AT head shots give it away, maybe due to the lighting as well as size. Thus in order to correct this (if one so chose to do so), what to do? You could:
(a) modify the lighting in some way or darken the skin of the model (be it the overall model or parts as say shadows of clouds move overhead) - looking at the head shots, maybe the light on the head itself could be a bit darker, being that it does seem a bit bright.
(b) texture the "metal" on the model to help increase the scale. Again, think of something big like an aircraft carrier or how rough the skin of a tank looks. I can see that the model makers did try to do this to a good degree, but it is again probably the lighting that is giving the model away.
(c) modify the head ala the H/Ks in THE TERMINATOR:
- add some spotlights on the bottom of the head and above the 2 lower guns (or darken/blacken that area, or add some extra detail)
- do something with the "window" between the 2 lower guns, whether to blacken it or add sensor pods ala an Apache helicopter or something
In fact, things like tanks would be a good reference as far as how the metal panels/texture would look, but also what kind of extra detail would conceivably be on a war machine.
I would also factor in ALL shots of the AT-ATs that are very brightly lit in regards to seeing what you could do to improve their sense of scale and how the lighting affects their appearance.
Here are some examples:
this is a good example of what the AT-ATs could look like if steam/smoke was coming out of the engines as it moved across the plain.
could add more fire and smoke to the battlefield as well as improve some of the AT-AT laser explosions (less fireball-ly, more like the upper left explosion but with snow), ala above. In fact, when the AT-ATs first fire and the first laser beam hits the snow, you have a fireball go straight up into the air. Maybe you could take an explosion from another war movie that looks like the above but also have the explosion angled to account for the impact angle of the laser bolt itself.
Here is an example of metal texture. Not so much the "orange" but notice how the paneling adds to the sense of scale to the battleship. Again, like what they did with the Enterprise model in ST:TMP and WOK.
another thought could be to have the AT-ATs have a missle/rocket battery on top of the main body, either firing long-rang munitions at the rebels or laying down a smoke screen - ala the dropship landing in the first fight in STARSHIP TROOPERS. This is also to show the sensor array on the nose of the Apache too, as far as what could be added to the lower head area above the 2 main guns.
Lastly, a shot of the HKs from TERMINATOR in regards to model detail and spotlights:
Granted, I understand these are night time shots, but it is just to give the overall concept of the AT-ATs having spotlights and other sensor arrays on the head. Again, nothing too bulky or junky looking, but the idea of adding running lights or other small details to help give the impression of a much larger vehicle.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
adywan said:Well i've been working on the rebel transport escape scene today and i have to say that i'm definitely going with the blue electrical laser bolts instead of the multi coloured original one. It add so much to this scene and give the Ion canon its own distinctive look as well as looking 100% better and more realistic colour wise. Making the blast points brighter and the new colouring takes away the fakeness of the original animation. I just love it.
Am I the only one who finds this effect change to be just a little bit ironic? The Ion Cannon is only used once in the whole entire movie saga and it's colored red, yet in the Expanded Universe (EU) it's depicted as being blue (The most case) or purple and does an electrical like effect to it's target. Doesn't this sort of trend into the EU territory that Adywan himself says he wants to stay as far away from as possible? Cause that's exactly what this looks like here and I'm sure a lot of casual fans will think the same.
I'm not saying Adywan is being a hypocrite about this because the new effect looks much more effective and I know that the EU isn't why he did this. It's just when he says that he doesn't want to put any EU stuff into his cuts, some of the things he does do tend to fit in with what the EU did perfectly compared to the original movies. Graphic novels depict blue ion beams, the Rogue Squadron games depicted blue Ion Beams with blue electricity sparking around when it hits and even blasters with Ion settings shoot blue bolts! (Oh, the Super Star Wars days).
All in all however, everything is looking really nice Ady, but I still think your being a hypocrite about removing the spinning star field effect. :P
- Jeyl
Jeyl said:adywan said:I just love it.
Am I the only one who finds this effect change to be just a little bit ironic? The Ion Cannon is only used once in the whole entire movie saga and it's colored red, yet in the Expanded Universe (EU) it's depicted as being blue (The most case) or purple and does an electrical like effect to it's target. Doesn't this sort of trend into the EU territory that Adywan himself says he wants to stay as far away from as possible? Cause that's exactly what this looks like here and I'm sure a lot of casual fans will think the same.
I'm not saying Adywan is being a hypocrite about this because the new effect looks much more effective and I know that the EU isn't why he did this. It's just when he says that he doesn't want to put any EU stuff into his cuts, some of the things he does do tend to fit in with what the EU did perfectly compared to the original movies. Graphic novels depict blue ion beams, the Rogue Squadron games depicted blue Ion Beams with blue electricity sparking around when it hits and even blasters with Ion settings shoot blue bolts! (Oh, the Super Star Wars days).
All in all however, everything is looking really nice Ady, but I still think your being a hypocrite about removing the spinning star field effect. :P
- Jeyl
I've done this myself and I know where you're coming from. But I think it simply comes down to Ady's own answer, which I've pretty much edited down to the basics.
And really, isn't that pretty much the reason for doing this?
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Spotlights to AT-AT? hmm It fits more to ROTJ scene then.
-Angel
BarBar Jinkx said:Savage said:Well, I prefer the score as is in the movie for that sequence. The concert arrangement has a very full, ominous sound, while the originally scored piece seems somewhat "smaller" to me....
I have to agree it felt flat to me and without the same emotional impact as the final release version
Thank you for your comments; in the 80's cinemas it made sense to hear it that way because it still was a typical way to score a big movie (orchestral sound), music was loud in the stereo dolby surround mix and we didn't have subwoofers then. In SE DVD that same ominous sound sounded suddenly thin and oldfashioned to my ears thus the whole music score which drove the original movie loud was degraded to "one of the things you hear" in 5.1 with now much important subwoofered foley track (sounds). Interestingly, music score was not subwoofered because somebody obviously didn't care. Executor reveal in 5.1 is a best example of that . That's why I believe that this deliberate version might do justice because it's less strings but more brass driven, which also better represents empire and one can put a lots of sub-engine-noise below without disturbing the sound.
Well , that's my opinion, but let's see what others and especially Adywan think about it - I suggest it to be tested.
http://rapidshare.com/files/201159867/Executor_reveal_original_composition.mp3
Well I don't know if this is the reason, but in Star Wars The Clone Wars, which is completely Lucas' vision and direction, where the Ion Cannon is first introduced as a seperatist weapon, it is blue, with the energy/lightning thing going on.
gavin77 said:Well I don't know if this is the reason, but in Star Wars The Clone Wars, which is completely Lucas' vision and direction, where the Ion Cannon is first introduced as a seperatist weapon, it is blue, with the energy/lightning thing going on.
Yes, but the Clone Wars is EU territory just like the previous series. Both are done with Lucas' vision and direction and are do exactly the same thing. And if I may say add, the spinning star field is also a part of Lucas' vision and direction as well.
- Jeyl
Sweet! Cant wait the new debate....
-Angel
I don't think we should ignore the idea that "blue = electricity" just because the EU thought the same way. Besides, in all of those sources (besides TCW) its a blue laser identical to the red/green lasers. I'm sure that Ady's version isn't just a recolored blast, but might actually look like compressed electricity, which would be awesome. The fact that they are blue are coincidences.
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I think we should be guarded against throwing words like "hypocrite" around (even if the intent is light hearted and I did notice).
It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.
If spinning starfields are your bag go spin them.
It's not as if Adywan has prevented any new copies of the spinning effect from ever seeing the light of day like Mr George.
I'm only saying this because if you are bogged down and busy and you scan read the wrong words it can really bugger your day up and it would be a real pain if that happened to anyone here.
well it looks better in blue. i think hypocrisy comes more from our reasoning not our ends necessarily.
Bingowings said: It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.
I wouldn't call that a fair comparison. In this case, the waiter changed the established recipe because the waiter didn't like it even though no one complained about it and it's never been changed throughout it's many restaurant chains. And as you pointed out, I can always order the original, but the way the waiter delivers it is just sooooooooooo good compared to the original. I just wish I could have that little something that makes it unique to all the other crappy stuff (Effect happens in two movies which are the original Star Wars and ESB. It doesn't happen in the 'lesser' liked Star Wars movies).
Again, I'm just a Star Wars fan who has an opinion and I say the effect, no matter how silly it might seem, works. Most audiences don't ask why because it's cool. Unfortunately this projects asks why to everything, and anything that looks different is a 'nono', even if it's used more than once.
Jeyl said:adywan said:Well i've been working on the rebel transport escape scene today and i have to say that i'm definitely going with the blue electrical laser bolts instead of the multi coloured original one. It add so much to this scene and give the Ion canon its own distinctive look as well as looking 100% better and more realistic colour wise. Making the blast points brighter and the new colouring takes away the fakeness of the original animation. I just love it.
Am I the only one who finds this effect change to be just a little bit ironic? The Ion Cannon is only used once in the whole entire movie saga and it's colored red, yet in the Expanded Universe (EU) it's depicted as being blue (The most case) or purple and does an electrical like effect to it's target. Doesn't this sort of trend into the EU territory that Adywan himself says he wants to stay as far away from as possible? Cause that's exactly what this looks like here and I'm sure a lot of casual fans will think the same.
I'm not saying Adywan is being a hypocrite about this because the new effect looks much more effective and I know that the EU isn't why he did this. It's just when he says that he doesn't want to put any EU stuff into his cuts, some of the things he does do tend to fit in with what the EU did perfectly compared to the original movies. Graphic novels depict blue ion beams, the Rogue Squadron games depicted blue Ion Beams with blue electricity sparking around when it hits and even blasters with Ion settings shoot blue bolts! (Oh, the Super Star Wars days).
All in all however, everything is looking really nice Ady, but I still think your being a hypocrite about removing the spinning star field effect. :P
- Jeyl
Why am i being a hypocrite just because i'm removing a spinning starfield? It was because i never really liked the effect and its only ever seen in eps 4 & 5 . they omit it in ROTJ. Please explain yourself as to why this is being hypocritical? That has nothing to do with EU stuff at all nor does me changing the laser bolt colour and appearance of the Ion Canon. I've always thought of this as an electrical weapon that disrupts the electronics of a ship to disable it. The colour blue makes it look more like an electrical weapon and has nothing to do with anything that is in the EU. If i was changing it because its in the EU then wouldn't i have turned the weapon into a circular electrical beam like in the CW series? Just because i'm changing the colour of something doesn't mean i'm doing it because it says so in the EU. I have always said that i would never change anything just because it says something or is featured in the EU and i have stuck to that and always will.
I don't appreciate being called a hypocrite especially when you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
At the end of the day i am doing this edit for me. Its things i want to see and want changed. Its been that way since day one.
Darth wagner, i won't be changing any of the music in ESB:R. the original music for the executor reveal was dropped because it was composed when the movie had a different cut. The sequence would have originally been shorter and extra effects were added in during the final edit and the original score no longer fits. Just try playing the original score over the visuals from the movie and you'll see what i mean.I also prefer the version we got. The symphony piece builds up the reveal a lot better than the original more harsh piece. I don't see a problem with the piece already being featured in ANH:R. Just listen to the Death Star battle in ROTJ. There are scores reused from ANH. having one familiar piece won't turn this edit into the type of hack job that was done to the PT
Anyway, the camera arrived today. the 25p suffers the same problem as the NTSC 24p setting. Although it isn't really jerky the picture does tend to blur quite badly in any fast motion. There are a hell of a lot of settings on this baby to learn. The image stabilisation is amazing and so much better than i have ever seen on any other camcorder. The picture quality is astounding. I don't know why all the reviews said that its crap in low light conditions and its way too noisy. i just adjusted a few settings and i get no problem whatsoever and i can even film in almost pitch blackness and it still focuses perfectly.
thanks guys. Now i need to start all the model building
ben_danger said:well it looks better in blue. i think hypocrisy comes more from our reasoning not our ends necessarily.
I'm not calling the effect of the Ion Blast being changed to blue as an act of hypocrisy, but something that's just a little ironic. This is just coincidence that happens to be the way other people treat the Ion Cannon in EU. I just think it's funny how Adywan is so distant from the EU even though the people that work on the EU it might share the same viewpoints of Star Wars that he does!
Wow....I need an asprin....I am not reading any of this in my lifetime lol. chezz, you guys could make a bible, discussing the thesis of a an At-At foot! Some of this stuff is pointless wookie breath. But I commend vadreios and Imp and..........for outstanding achieventment in(some one come up with a word lol)
I will now go into hibernation as I wait for Adywan, wake me, when you need me.
The person your searching for simply does not exist
Jeyl said:Bingowings said: It's a bit like calling a person who has slaved over a hot stove all day a lousy host because the meal they have provided for our enjoyment isn't salted to our exact requirements when there is a nice big full salt shaker on the table.I wouldn't call that a fair comparison. In this case, the waiter changed the established recipe because the waiter didn't like it even though no one complained about it and it's never been changed throughout it's many restaurant chains. And as you pointed out, I can always order the original, but the way the waiter delivers it is just sooooooooooo good compared to the original. I just wish I could have that little something that makes it unique to all the other crappy stuff (Effect happens in two movies which are the original Star Wars and ESB. It doesn't happen in the 'lesser' liked Star Wars movies).
Again, I'm just a Star Wars fan who has an opinion and I say the effect, no matter how silly it might seem, works. Most audiences don't ask why because it's cool. Unfortunately this projects asks why to everything, and anything that looks different is a 'nono', even if it's used more than once.
I was actually suggesting you kept all the bits you did like and edited in the bits you felt were missing and create your own edit (giving credit where credit is due naturally).
So my analogy is correct, Ady cooks up a lovely meal and you add the spinning stars you so miss.
No need to call anybody names and everyone is happy.
I'm gagging for a clip!
I am a kite dancing in a hurricane …
^Try drinking some water?
just to point out the jawa that shoots R2 in epIV uses an ion weapon and it shoots blue so i think that would count as maximum level canon (this is just a screen grab from anh:r not adjusted by me)