STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 239

Sevb32 said:

I like the Vader audible reactions, it shows he still feels some pain, even being as much machine as he is. But go back and listen to the original pre SE editions of the vhs tapes or maybe even the pre SE dvds (Which I don't have.) Vader's Carbonite groans sounded like two different ones, in the SE's they both sound more or less the same.

 I believe he does feel pain, but then again, why is it even important to know? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think you're implying that it's important we know he's a sentient being. We already know that from the scene in the meditation chamber when the helmet is replaced on his head. And if there's any doubt after that, we'll know for sure when it's revealed that Vader is indeed Luke's father. Why do you need other, superfluous parts that don't go along with the character anyway?

I realize that a lot of it comes down to opinion. I see it from your point of view for sure, and figured I'd share my point of view on the matter. Really, I'm not trying to debate anybody. What I am trying to do is help them to open up their minds to other possibilities, which I think will really in turn help this project. We'll be taking all sorts of awesome things into account. Anyway, you have my view now.

Love the new video, but its hard looking for things subtracted from the movie!  LOL

Its up now for everyone to view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf_IthivGgA

Enjoy x.

DarkFather said:

I'm just saying this guy is hardened to pain and his reactions are weird and out of place.

I totally understand where you're coming from with your view, but to me, having been thinking about this for a bit now, I might compare it to something I know I've done many times. I'll bump my elbow on something or cut my finger and immediately say 'ow', even if it doesn't hurt whatsoever. It's just a natural reaction. Or it's like when people are at a baseball game and see a ball coming towards them. They are behind thick, strong netting, but they still flinch.

Could be viewed that way with Vader, I think. I mean, he wouldn't normally have any reason to react in such a way in day to day life. It's not like stormtroopers whack him with sticks when he walks down the hallways.

Bingowings said:

DarkFather said:Bingowings, on the last page I explained how Vader is anything but weak. It'd be neat if you decided to respond to it instead of continuing to insist that he's some weakling hiding in a suit.

With respect I think I did respond by re-asserting my view that he is a weak broken person kept alive by machinery and the negative side of the Force.

He is emotionally weak because he is a bully sitting on a house of cards assembled by Palpatine and despite his plans to the contrary feels powerless to do anything about it on his own.

He is physically weak, as soon as his life support is buggered up by Palpatine's Force lightning he dies within a few minutes.

He takes out his weakness on those around him, he can't breath so he chokes the life out anyone who steps on his toes.

He only becomes strong when his compassion tunes him back into the light side of the Force (something Palpatine cannot master).

As a military commander he is limited to controlling people through fear and never commands respect (Tarkin seems to be able to handle both) and he allows his emotional attachment to his son and his hope that it will give him the upper hand over Vader to push himself and those around him to ruin.

You can and obviously do hold different views so it's pointless to press them further either way.

You think he is battle hardened and those sounds weaken the strong arm of the Emperor's forces, I think he is battle damaged and the sounds flag up the fragile human hiding inside the bionic monster.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

 

 Vader is something of brute in his actions. By no means do I endorse or condone his actions in any way, but on an objective level, can't we admit that in his instabilities, he does have a strength? He kills his former Jedi peers without any sort of remorse, chokes Imperial officers who he has been around long enough to know without second throught afterward... see the strength through detachment that I'm getting at? Just because someone is cruel to those around him, doesn't deny him great strength in mind and spirit. We've been socially programmed to think otherwise. If anything, to say cruelty equals inner weakness in the cruel person is a defense mechanism for the oppressed. We're pinning a weakness onto those who oppress us, when in reality, that weakness might not even really be there. Poignant, but it's the cold, hard truth.

Arrogance doesn't always come from an inferiority complex. Sometimes it's a superiority complex where the person deep down, honestly believes themselves to be worthy of the universe, and everyone else are desposable tools to an end. Call it narcissicm, call it sociopathy, it is what it is.

That's the emotional/psychological standpoint.

Now, as far as the life support system being vulnerable to Force Lightning: I think that actually helps my side of this discussion. It's a very vulnerable point for his physical being. Everyone has one. Vader, despite his vulnerable point/Achilles' Heel, managed to survive over two decades. He survives DESPITE that vulnerable point, which is a signifier of even greater strength.

Wow... Bingowings, I never saw it that way.  And yet that all makes sense.  Why couldn't that have been explained?

Yeah. Thats why in the musical journey the title is A life reddemed. It make sense!

Thumbs up Bingo!

-Angel

Even though it doesn't address anything in my previous post, Anakin was indeed a slave all of his life. He constantly fought to be something more. Vader's spirit was never "broken." It just changed its shape, while having the same goal in mind, with amplified determination to get to that goal. When you imagine his life's timeline, you see the dogged determination again and again, and it's very inspiring. That's why I don't get people saying Vader was "broken" or a "weakling." He was a solid symbol of enduring strength. Whether good or evil, that part remained the same.

I'll jump in and cast my vote for keeping the audible Vader reactions. As I see it, the issue isn't so much Vader's strength as much as it is Luke's. Everything is leading up to Luke's total defeat and humiliation. Yoda insists that his training is incomplete and his strength is altogether too underdeveloped to face off with the Dark Lord. Vader is making all the rules, calling all the shots, and holding all the cards. It's his ground, his turf, and his terms. "All too easy."

And yet, all odds to the contrary, Luke shocks both his would-be captor and the audience by matching ruthlessness with passion, cruel intention with heroic bravery. He fights with strength unequal to his training, and Vader is utterly taken aback by the aspirant's resilience. Even when he has forced Luke to yield ground (not unlike his duel with Obi-Wan, by the way), and seems to have regained the upper hand, Luke forces Vader's defenses aside and deals a lightsaber blow to his shoulder. His reaction is a mixture of shock, pain, admiration, and anger, all of which rise from his charred lungs and pass through his vocal modulator as a muffled outcry.

It's an interesting dynamic. Even though Vader goes on to overpower Luke, he ultimately fails his mission, and the would-be Jedi escapes with his friends and ship intact. The Empire struck back, but Vader's efforts have ultimately been thoroughly and utterly frustrated. What's a Sith Lord to do to regain his plunging self-confidence? I guess he could always go build another Death Star...

Vader should make a sound of pain totally

If you stab a bear or lion it would make a cry of pain

Also the Emperor was wailing about when Vader picked him up and threw him down the shaft

Evil isn't imune to pain, even if its based on it

Keep his reactions!

Kurtyboy said:

adywan said:

I'm also going to be building a new wampa head with horns, shoulders & arms to replace the original puppet. this way i can also replace the weird looking wampa shot as it lunges at luke in the cave. I'm starting work on that later in the week so as soon as that is finished i will post some photos.

 

Have you thought of getting in touch with someone who has built various Wampas in the past? Such as Tom Spina whom I know from The Replica Props Forum http://www.tomspinadesigns.com/Sculpture.html. Scroll down to the sixth row. I also remember he built a full size Wampa a while back.

 

Wow, that guys really good.  I wonder if Ady could borrow some stuff from him, like the Wampa, or that Jabba and Max Rebo Band.  Wish they were puppets though...

Every time Luke gets a hit in on Vader, he should cry "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

</sarcasm>

I'm still more for saving it for Vader's distress at Luke's suicide attempt.

Like this.

;-)

well i've finally amanged to catch up on everything.

The blue bolt from the ion canon - i love it. this makes it more of an electrical weapon to disable the ships instead of fire power. I'll definitely be doing something like this

The wampa severed arm. I may add some residual glow from the sabre wound on the falling arm similar to the cantina scene in ANH:R but i won't be adding any flames . fur wouldn't burn only singe. Plus that final shot of the wampa in pain will most probably not be in ESB:R. Its too noticeable you can even see the seam of the costume down the one side

I like the additions to Slave 1's cockpit. most probably i'll be doing something like this

The red glow in the AT-AT interiors. Thanks for doing that mock-up. that has really helped put my point across that adding red lighting to the interiors will look fake. This is really something that doesn't need doing. its only one very brief shot of an AT-AT with a red cockpit and only one single one.  i do however like the display in the windows.

The holograms. I may be doing some slight tweaking but i won't be making them look as clean as the PT ones are. i will be redoing the PT ones to closer match the OT when i get to it. I may add a faint projection glow but i won't know for sure until i try it out.

vaderios said:

Edit: Ive just noticed in that marked area the light is trembling with no reason.

 

yeh that is a weird lighting effect. might have to do something about that. Actually this shot brings me to a problem that may well be unresolvable. You see Piett walking away from the officer but the next immediate shot he is already down the other end of the pit. not sure how i can fix this problem without things looking odd though. this ones going to be a tough one.

vaderios said:

I was wondering, If the hoth base is collapsing and we had see before electricity issues when the imperials intrude, in the scene when Han and leia run to falcon it will be cool to have some slight background movement.

Like this:

i like the idea of the flickering lights. brings a bit of life to the matte

As for Vaders cries of pain they will be remaining in the movie. but, as was pointed out, 2 of the cries in the carbon chamber are exactly the same since the SE. I'll be returning these cries to the original different ones or maybe use something different for the one.

Kurtyboy said:

adywan said:

I'm also going to be building a new wampa head with horns, shoulders & arms to replace the original puppet. this way i can also replace the weird looking wampa shot as it lunges at luke in the cave. I'm starting work on that later in the week so as soon as that is finished i will post some photos.

 

Have you thought of getting in touch with someone who has built various Wampas in the past? Such as Tom Spina whom I know from The Replica Props Forum http://www.tomspinadesigns.com/Sculpture.html. Scroll down to the sixth row. I also remember he built a full size Wampa a while back.

 

Well the wampa i will be doing is going to be a very slight redesign, plus i love creating things so the fun for me is actually building the new creature.

Awesome to hear that you liked the ion cannon concept, and indeed, most of the concepts that vaderios and Bingo have been throwing around.  Hopefully you like some of the RotJ stuff they've been throwing around also.

What about Vader's Force choke of Lando?  I know its not important, but I'd love to know if things I've come up with (Rebel Transport jumping to hyperspace, etc) actually might make it into the final cut...  I'm just being selfish realy. :-)

Awesome! Blue ion cannon!

:D

-Angel