STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1104

SpilkaBilka said:

I'm in the camp that thinks it's just a regular SD, though I can sort of see how it might work as being the Executor.

But for those who think it's the Executor, let me ask you this: let's say it's 1980 and you've seen SW, and now you're watching ESB for the first time.  You know what a SD looks like.  The shot in question comes up- the massive tower fills up the screen.

It looks just like a SD tower that's been established in SW and the beginning of ESB.  What about this tower would possibly lead you to believe that it's anything but a SD?

It's a different color and it is slightly different looking (Radar Bar)

If the filmmakers wanted us to think it was a different type of ship... why would the initial reveal of it be a structure that is identical to that of a ship that has been clearly previously established in the movies?

To Trick you

Those in the Executor camp- do you think the filmmakers' intent was for the audience to think right away that the tower belongs to a different kind of ship, OR, after seeing the body of the Executor, was the audience then supposed to think, "oh, that first shot of the tower was actually this much larger ship"?

Yep 2nd one

But with all that said I still think The SD camp have a point and it is not entirely clear and the first glimpse of the executor would work better as it's shadow so I am actually split in two over it all now.... but that is my main stance before thinking about ripping it all to shreds to make it less confusing it's never actually entered my mind until coming here that this was anything other than the executor... Now I can never see it the same which is probably why I would not mind seeing the shot taken out of this context entirely

It's become the two faces or the candlestick

I now see one or the other or both so it is pretty much ruined

As the Executor pod I read that shot as saying, "here's another of those gigantic ships that so impressed you in the first film... wait for it.... Da Da! How d'you like them apples?"

Having the same shaped bridge pod is a ploy to make the viewer expect something they know to be big and then dwarfing it with something even bigger.

Try this by adding tie fighters flying arround. Their small size will make the scale of the bridge more prominent. The idea of flipping the shot is a good option too.

Throw my name into the SD camp as well. I never even considered it being the Executor before this conversation. I interpreted the scene as a fleet of Star Destroyers milling about, seen from various angles, when a large shadow dwarfs them, revealing the Executor to establish that the Empire is pretty much still in control despite that ugly Death Star incident a few years back.

Regardless, this is Adywan's project, and ultimately his vision of what ESB should have been. If he wants to put taun tauns in space, it's his right. 

(I'm secretly hoping that he sneaks in another battle droid head into the scrap heap on Cloud City, like he did in the Jawa crawler in ANH:R)

I fully accept the "It's the Executor" explanation exept for ONE detail. That's the direction. The bridge tower, while mostly moving straight, is moving ever so right-left in the frame. Then, we see the SD moving generally right-left. Then we see the Executor moving left-right. It's sudden and jarring (if it's the Executor). If the first shot was intended to be Executor, then it ought to be flipped horizontally to preserve the flow of motion.

EDIT:
Here's a visual explanation of everything I just said:

I think it would help if the supposed Executor bridge is much darker, maybe a little out of focus, add blurr, because it is too sharp and with that short comparison of a standard Destroyer, it seems they are both same size, even if they should be different ...

like aalenfae (and others) said, mirroring the bridge shot could support the view that the ship is the Executor

I really think it comes mostly down to direction over color. 
If it's supposed to be Executor, the first shot kind of needs to be mirrored. The way it's edited, all the filmmaking cues point to it being a normal SD. If it's mirrored, it suddenly seems to be something different, because its motion becomes consistent with the direction it's finally revealed to be going. 

Bash Lucas all you want, but he typically holds well to basic editing structures, like general preservation of motion, (I'm not sure what the official editing term is, but it's a basic concept). For example, picture how the X-Wings going down the trench always are shown to be flying from right-to-left. And, more recently in RotS, almost all of the opening Coruscant battle has good guys flying left-right and bad guys flying right-left, with only a few exceptions. This sort of motion consistency is a basic rule of good editing, and - if that bridge tower is supposed to be Executor - a simple horizontal flip fixes everything.

Even though every single clue (other than color) points to it being a normal SD, I'm fully willing to accept it as Executor. I really can see how it could be the Executor. But ONLY if it's flipped in the first shot. Otherwise, It's like... 3 to 1 in favor of it being a normal SD.

Jaitea said:

Don't know why the tower was blue, but it makes no sense to reveal the Executor first before the shadow

Yup, the shadow should be the shark fin.

Couple that with the direction of travel issue and I think those 2 things clinch it as far as editing structure goes.

But then there's also the lighting issue. IF the close-up of the bridge we see is supposed to be a SSD then the lighting on the SSD switches sides between shots.

I think the blue coloring was either flat out a mistake, or someone's clumsy attempt to tease the SSD with incorrect footage (which, as has already been pointed out, happens often).

EDIT: My money would be on it being a mistake....I'd guess that whoever was recoloring the SSD model from grey to blue decided that the SD bridge filling the screen meant that it must have been "the big one"....and incorrectly colored it blue. And then in subsequent re-releases they just stuck with what was already there when doing color touch ups.

Great observation with the lighting. Another nail in the coffin, I'd say.

I'm getting the feeling that maybe Ady just said what he said just to see how crazy and wound-up we all are about ESB:R. xD 

Cuz if that's the case... we're all a bunch of loony chumps, haha.

Why did they alter the model then SD camp?

Thats why I said it was wider they did this to make it appear wider than a normal SD bridge

The different angle is causing the discrepancy you see there Ronster.

it is over 2 times the distance I am not buying the angle theory... And that does not mean that I think the SD camp don't have a good case.

Not the angle though

the first shot is even closer in than the second and it is still a greater distance

In fact the whole top part is different you should at that angle in the first shot see more of that top Bar but you actually see less of it because it's not the same.

It's clearly the same model coloured differently.

I suggest reading a bit about perspective distortion or maybe try photographing a similar object and noting how details seem to shift when the camera is placed in different positions.

I, too, always took the opening of ESB to be of a regular Star Destroyer as opposed to the Executor (for the reasons already mentioned - particularly the directional composition, and the naturality of the shadow being the first glimpse). Amazingly, until following this forum, I didn't imagine that it could be interpreted otherwise!

So a pretty redundant post on my part, but I wasn't sure if anyone's keeping tally ;)

I'll buy the lens theory... I think they would have purposefully used a different lens (setting than standard) to make the same model appear different.

And it is clearly not the same lens or at least same settings being used in the comparison that we have here

Ronster said:

Why did they alter the model then SD camp?

Thats why I said it was wider they did this to make it appear wider than a normal SD bridge

Sorry, but did you just make the comparison misleading on purpose? The vertical line in the bottom picture should be far more to the right, just look at the details of the tower.

Relatively small models are typically filmed with longer lenses to make them look larger. The establishing shot was filmed with a really long lens so that they could make the tower passing over the camera more impressive. The same technique was done filming the opening shot of ANH. The point COULD be to make one seem bigger than the other, but it would seem that they're just doing it to achieve the kind of shot they wanted to do. 

As I said, it COULD be Executor, but there's only one clue to suggest as such - which would be the original coloring. In order to even start to communicate that it's Executor, the shot needs to be flipped. Plain and simple.