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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1076

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Ronster's idea is dynamic but a big problem is that it doesn't fit the context of the scene or the movie.  The rebels are essentially executing a delaying action to keep the power generator and the shield intact so as many transports as possible are able to escape.  The Empire is supposed to be trouncing them, their armored vehicles are supposed to be impervious to the equipment that the Rebellion has cobbled together.  The shot of the cannon hitting the walker to no effect is important in illustrating this.  

This chapter of the movies is supposed to be darker and the Rebels are on the run and the Empire has the upper hand despite the destruction of the Death Star in the last chapter.  

I'm not hoping to see a lot of AT-ST's or AT-AT's go down in this fanedit.  I realize it is a fanedit but some things shouldn't be changed too much in order to maintain the integrity of the original story.  

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doubleofive said:

The AT-STs do more than stand around in the rest of the battle. Not to worry

Oh man I really cant wait to see the whole edit. Thanks for all your hard work guys.

Thanks Ady.

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don't have a good picture of it, but at least the headcount at the Hoth briefing Leia gives the crews (pilots&gunners!), suggests, that there are at least more than 5 snowspeeders ;-)

 

http://www.xwpilots.de/Dateien/film_bilder.html

maybe someone got a clearer shot of that scene ...

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Adywan, I noticed that one of the Rebel troops in the trench had a hair sticking out of his cap in one shot that disappears the next time we see him.  This really needs to be fixed, as it totally pulled me out of the scene!

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Gotcha. I still think that there's something about the way we see so many speeders in that shot that it loses some of the impact, and if there was a way to have less of them while maintaining continuity I would prefer it (as you can tell, I had trouble with the continuity of that scene even looking at the Despecialized version, where I saw five in one shot, but could only track four throughout most of the battle). These are just my opinions less on the logic of the scene, and more on the feeling it might inspire for the viewer. But it is just that, my preference and opinion, not an attempt to offer an edict or attack the fine work you've done, and I want to be very careful and clear about that. The clip got me even more pumped for release. You rock.

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There are definitely at least six Rebel speeders - Luke, Wedge, Hobbie and at least three more unnamed that get destroyed by Imperial fire.

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Matt.F said:

Dear Adywan,

I have created an account with the intention of putting a friendly word of in your ear prior to the release of ESB: R which I believe isn't too far away now. First of all, thank you very much for doing this. An incredible labour of love which I know I am going to really enjoy watching and am sure many thousands around the world will feel the same way.

It's quite something to create a new 'version' of a classic - and judging by the long list of tweaks and changes that are detailed on the the first page of this forum your version will be definitive.

It's also quite something being able to put a note up here for you, and to know that you will get to see it, and although my hopes of influencing your decision making are very small it would be remiss of me not to try in this one instance. I believe your instincts are great with the changes your making but there is one change I read that made my heart sink a little bit and caused me to write.

The decision to remove the shot of the AT-ST at the Battle of Hoth. This is a small detail, of course - but it's a cool detail. A nice moment of escalation in the battle where you see the Imperials are bringing in more forces. It is also a part of the original theatrical version of ESB not a later addition, and a fine early example of Phil Tippett's stop motion fx. I think it would be such a shame to lose it.

I understand your rationale is that it's the only shot of AT-ST's we see at the battle. Yes it is - but isn't that what makes Star Wars so incredible? Monsters that would form the basis for a whole lesser movie are glimpsed just once at the Cantina. Costumes that took weeks to craft only having seconds on screen. It is such things that cause the viewers imagination to expand, to fill the mind with moments that are never glimpsed on screen. I don't need to see the AT-ST in extra scenes - I can picture it zapping away at the Rebels in the trenches without the movie actually showing me that happening. I think perhaps you have seen it as a continuity problem when it really isnt - and I believe ESB: R will be a lesser film for trimming the shot.

I wonder if perhaps you might re-evaluate this decision, turn it over in your mind whether you really do have to lose this shot? There's a fan of yours here that would be very pleased if it ended up staying in your cut.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and all the best,

Matt

 

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Just over a year ago the above was my first post.

 

Having just watched the Battle Of Hoth clip I think its time for my second post...

 

"Woo Hoo!!"

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''Woo Hoo!!'' indeed. 

I didn't think the AT-STs would be revealed until the edit's release (or until a final trailer perhaps), but I'm glad to see this clip quickly helped to raise the additional donations required at the moment.

I'll add a few thoughts on a couple of things shown so far when I've more time tomorrow, but some of the additional things to the workprint are looking terrific.

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regularjoe said:

Ronster's idea is dynamic but a big problem is that it doesn't fit the context of the scene or the movie.  The rebels are essentially executing a delaying action to keep the power generator and the shield intact so as many transports as possible are able to escape.  The Empire is supposed to be trouncing them, their armored vehicles are supposed to be impervious to the equipment that the Rebellion has cobbled together.  The shot of the cannon hitting the walker to no effect is important in illustrating this.  

This chapter of the movies is supposed to be darker and the Rebels are on the run and the Empire has the upper hand despite the destruction of the Death Star in the last chapter.  

I'm not hoping to see a lot of AT-ST's or AT-AT's go down in this fanedit.  I realize it is a fanedit but some things shouldn't be changed too much in order to maintain the integrity of the original story.  

The problem is a few AT-ATs (two out of five visible) already go down in the original. Pretty pathetically, actually. 40% casualties on the Empire is pretty insane. The Rebels just don't have nearly enough time to stop them all. 

The same overwhelming effect could be felt with an AT-ST going down. Like - the gun destroys an AT-ST, but the camera pans up slowly, and we see an AT-AT looming overhead. It shoots, and we see the shot of the artillery exploding. Same effect, but now it's actually more dramatic.

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One of those walkers goes down only because Luke is able to pop open a hatch on the unarmored bottom with his lightsaber, not a common cause of these being taken out for the Empire.  If you discount this d/t the uniqueness of Luke and his talents then you have a 20% casualty rate.  

 

I don't mind the idea of more robust impacts on the walkers who remain unaffected.  The existing shot is fine and doesn't need to be changed.   Things don't need to be changed for the sake of changing them, this is one of the two movies of the six that is largely fine as it is.  "Improvements" should be done to address poor fx that were not corrected over time or to create something that couldn't be done at the time.  What I've seen with the AT-ST's fits that, they were in the movies but nothing was done with them.  Seeing them operating as walking flak batteries is a nice enhancement.

 

 

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Ady,

I'm not a big poster here at OT.com, but I wanted to say I've been subscribed to this thread and one other of your works for 5+ years now. Your work is inspiring, amazing, and beautiful. I can't wait to see the final results for ESB:R. Keep it up!

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aalenfae said:

regularjoe said:

Ronster's idea is dynamic but a big problem is that it doesn't fit the context of the scene or the movie.  The rebels are essentially executing a delaying action to keep the power generator and the shield intact so as many transports as possible are able to escape.  The Empire is supposed to be trouncing them, their armored vehicles are supposed to be impervious to the equipment that the Rebellion has cobbled together.  The shot of the cannon hitting the walker to no effect is important in illustrating this.  

This chapter of the movies is supposed to be darker and the Rebels are on the run and the Empire has the upper hand despite the destruction of the Death Star in the last chapter.  

I'm not hoping to see a lot of AT-ST's or AT-AT's go down in this fanedit.  I realize it is a fanedit but some things shouldn't be changed too much in order to maintain the integrity of the original story.  

The problem is a few AT-ATs (two out of five visible) already go down in the original. Pretty pathetically, actually. 40% casualties on the Empire is pretty insane. The Rebels just don't have nearly enough time to stop them all. 

The same overwhelming effect could be felt with an AT-ST going down. Like - the gun destroys an AT-ST, but the camera pans up slowly, and we see an AT-AT looming overhead. It shoots, and we see the shot of the artillery exploding. Same effect, but now it's actually more dramatic.

Aalenfae I remember your short video for ideas on the Hoth Battle especially the moving turrets and the downed AT-AT shield Malfunction spring to mind were both good ideas along with troops disembarking the AT-AT's on wires.

So far as bringing down 1 AT-ST via Artillery I would say that you actually understand the effect.

Long Version

AT-ST brought down by Artullery = A small victory and Hope

AT-AT pretty much straight after this destroys the artillery = Hope Shattered

This Leads on to that the Chicken Walkers are protecting the AT-AT's Flanks. By Destroying an AT-ST that will make for the window of opportunity for the tow cable trip of the AT-AT that wedge brings down. Without removal of the AT-ST protecting it's flanks the manouver would have been impossible.

The Rebels still get their asses handed to them but as Alanfae said we are trying to increase the drama and not make it seem like the rebels are doing better than they did in the original.

I myself feel it's reasonable that the artillery is capable of taking down an AT-ST and not an AT-AT so why would they not target what they could actually do damage to? As the Snow speeders are targeting the AT-AT's The Artillery should be trying to take down the Chicken Walkers with a success rate of bringing 1 of them down.

Short Version

Just Blow one up :)

 

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when luke is upside down in the cave and reaching for the lightsaber you hear music that goes thun thun.and then the lightsaber moves twice.but the music doesn't sync up when the lightsaber moves and i think it should.anybody else agree?

"you make a living by what you get,but you make a life by what you give"           winston churchill

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lastjedi said:

when luke is upside down in the cave and reaching for the lightsaber you hear music that goes thun thun.and then the lightsaber moves twice.but the music doesn't sync up when the lightsaber moves and i think it should.anybody else agree?

Every time Ady posts a clip he states that the sound mix isn't final and won't be started until the video is completely finished.

First things first.  The audio/music sync will be dealt with later.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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adywan said:

TheDerider said:

I did feel there was one place that went a little too far, which was the snowspeeder count. In the clip we see, at least, there's a very clear count of four speeders (save for the "Echo Station Fox Seven" shot), and it further emphasizes the impressiveness of the fight by showing how under-equipped and inventive the Rebellion is. With the additional speeders, whom we do not see during that fight, some of that impressiveness is lost for the sake of one shot. If there are more speeders for the sake of continuity that I'm unaware of, I'm not sure it would really be that many.

There are a lot more than just 4 snowspeeders shown throughout the battle in the official version.

The first shot we see ("Echo station 5-7, we're on our way.) , we see 5 snowspeeders flying alongside Luke, then it cuts to the shot of only 4 speeders, then cuts to 9 speeders flying overhead of the troops in the trenches. Then, when Luke first reaches the walkers we see 3 speeders, with one going to the opposite side of the AT-At then cuts to 4 speeders flying past the walker. So it shows that they have split into groups and in that shot alone there were at least 5 on screen. But if there was only supposed to be 4 speeders throughout the whole battle then there must be killed pilots/ speeders coming back to life:-

First one killed is just before Dak gets killed. We see a speeder shot down behind Luke in the cockpit shot when Luke says "Just hang on. Hang on Dak", so that would leave 3; Luke, Wedge and Red 2, but we know that there is another pilot left at least - Hobbie. Later on , just after R2 is loaded into Luke's X-Wing, we see a speeder going down with heavy smoke trailing it behind the walkers. But we know that all the pilots i mentioned are still alive after this scene, so that means more speeders.

There are 6 in the first shot (other than Luke, which would make 7). Initially there are 4 to the right of the frame and 1 that can only partially be seen on the left (between his helmet and a strut). Then 1 more speeder flies down into the frame after a second or two.

Also, keep in mind that this shot only shows out of Luke's left cockpit window. There are surely more on his right (considering he's Rogue Leader).

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Fantastic clip! Thank you Ady! =D

 

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Great to see the awesome start of the Hoth battle with the new additions the other day.  The new backgrounds and overall re-colouring looks fantastic.

I was really looking forward to seeing how the views of the approaching AT-ATs seen through Luke's speeder windshield would turn out, and they are fabulous.  And the snowspeeder display graphics have turned out excellent too.

There's been some interesting comments/ideas here recently, about which I can't say anything - except to confirm that there are many other outstanding shots in the rest of the battle for everyone to look forward to also! :)

adywan, a little thing of my own I'd like to mention concerns the tremendous new 'binocular' shot - the nearer, close-up view of the AT-AT cockpit/and drivers is wonderful of course, and I agree that the revised version is a definate subtle improvement with the brief 'blurred focusing' moments included now.  

However, I always liked the initial way that the AT-AT's foot comes down with a satisfying 'stomp'-like movement in the original, for it's initial reveal. 

I think part of the 'shock-of-the-new' for me concerning the new footage is to do with the fact that the AT-AT'S foot seen in the new version is nearly in contact with the ground already, compared to the way we initially saw in the original version, which seemed to be coming down from a slightly higher, more satisfying angle before it hits the ground (seen at 00.33 in the 'comparison' video here) - http://vimeo.com/61219064

For a quick comparison, here's how the first frame in the new version looks (ignore the 'Temp Video' lettering everyone) -

 

and here's the first frame of the original foot coming down from a slightly higher, different angle to begin with -

It's just a momentary,subtle thing before the camera-view pans upwards from the foot, but I don't feel the new version is quite as satisfying at this initial point.  No biggie however, but I just wanted to bring that up.

Another little thing that is I wanted to mention is that the 'binocular' view seems suddenly very...blue-ish overall...compared to the overall whiter look of shots that come before and after it.  So the AT-AT/AT-ST colouring seems rather blue-hued due to this 'tinted' look.  I know that the original shot is blue-ish too, but somehow it didn't seem such an issue due to the footage being so 'unfocused' throughout anyway.  And I also know that the earlier shot through Luke's 'binoculars' looked quite blue-ish too, and if that's the actual shade of blue 'tinting' effect you want to stick with, then great.  On the other hand, I wonder if things *might* look even more effective on both these 'binocular' shots if the blue-ish 'tint' is toned down a little bit?  I don't mean towards a paler shade of blue, I mean a little more towards a whiter/greyer - looking hue overall, to tie-in with the before and after shots slightly more?  Just a thought.

Either way, should a brief moment of 'blurred focusing' happen at the *very start* of the 'binocular' shot when we first see the AT-AT's foot I wonder?  Would that make the shot even more effective, before it quickly focuses into total clarity or not?  Just another thought.

By the way, the 'binocular' shot was originally our first real reveal of the AT-AT's shape, but now your excellent new *earlier* shot shows them a lot more prominently in the distance than the dark 'specks' in the original.  But I wonder if the size of them should still be made slightly smaller overall, or not?  Is the mountain range behind them looking big enough compared to them in this first reveal shot now?, or should the mountains look bigger compared to the AT-ATs/AT-STs at this point still?  I'm not sure, but the shot still looks great even if they're kept at their current new scale in the distance. 

Lastly, I love the look of Mithrandir's recent 'mock-up'.  I reckon that seeing a hint of mountain background and cloud/sky really helps improve the look of the AT-AT head miniature.  I also quite liked his notion of a hint of 'reflective sheen' in that particular shot as it moves slightly, but either way, I'd definately like to the background altered along those kind of lines, if you think it warrants changing it a little.

Amazing progress on this whole project, regardless.

 

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Adywan is truly a Master!

I don't know how he has the patience to work so meticulously...and how he puts up with all of us...lol.

JediBorota
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re: The blaster shot on the AT-AT walker.

 

I think the issue is, despite Luke's line being "That armor is too strong for blasters!", the visual effects are more in common with shielding than armor. This also fits with the scene where, once the AT-AT is downed, suddenly it's able to be shot to pieces by blaster fire.

It's also why the blaster shot looks like it is absorbed rather than making a scuff mark or ricocheting.

I don't think it's a mistake per se, but rather it's the sci-fi concepts being played fast and loose with, and just not thinking it matters that much whether they call it armor or shielding. There was no way to know at the time it would be held up to this kind of scrutiny.

Short of drastically altering the visuals and spoken lines from the original, I think Ady has done the next best thing, which is to leave that issue well alone.

 

EDIT: Just found this, which should satisfy anyone else worried about it not making sense!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7487740/Star-Trek-style-force-field-armour-being-developed-by-military-scientists.html