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STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 REVISITED ADYWAN *1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION — Page 135

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...this is getting more in depth than the discussion over Greedo shooting first - hahaha! I bet Adywan can almost sympathise with Lucas now - can't please everyone (though YEAH the Greedo scene was dumb without a doubt...!).

Still reckon make it a human arm - it just makes more sense and follows the onscreen action perfectly. The shock value here helps as well - suddenly 'old' ben isn't someone to mess with in a hurry, and also echo's sentiments, "this place can be a little rough....!". More shocking than some semi-fake looking weird alien arm which doesn't really has half the impact as the human arm...

- John
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Just thought I'd post this for those interested. They're selling fast, so get yours today!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9403/tshirtln1.jpg

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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Ady,

Both the re-done flipper and severed arm look great. I don't think you can go wrong using either one and ultimately it's up to you anyway since this is YOUR edit. Great work, mate.
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I agree with ADY, this whole filpper debate is way out of hand. To fix that problem, someone is going to have to model a flipper, texture it, light it to match the film elements, and composite it into the shot. No amount of photoshoping cam make it blend in seemlessly IMO. I am still perfectly happy with how ADY did it originally.

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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Quite apart from making me all excited about ANH all over again (WHAT a brilliant film) - Ady's work has inspired me to do my own edits of Clones and Sith! Wont be anything remotely like Ady's restoration work, but the brilliant editing in the lightsaber fight and Kenobi's hut really pushed how a good edit can change a film....

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I really think the flipper debate has missed the biggest point - whether or not it would be a hand or a flipper, in the few seconds we have to see the shot, a human hand simply has more emotional impact. With the flipper, it takes a few seconds - or even a repeat viewing - to know what you're looking at. This could be the #1 reason Lucas went with a hand. Sometimes movie making sides with "poetic license" over accuracy, and I think this is a case where the shock of seeing an arm on the ground only works if you instantly recognize it as an arm.

In other news, I watched the rest of the cut. The vast majority of it I love; I do see what people are talking about with the desaturation of the Death Star interiors... I would agree a little color in there makes sense, if not only because when shooting with color film, even if the set is entirely black and white, a little color seeps in, even if it's only from the grain in the film stock!

I agree that Obi Wan igniting his saber first has an "un Jedi" like feel to it, although the re-editing of the fight is excellent. Adding music to this scene is one of my biggest reservations, though... Lucas very deliberately left this moment unscored - the lack of music gives it a more realistic, tense feel, and since just about the entire movie is scored, the LACK of music in this scene gives it more power. I can understand the thought of "well it's an action scene, it has to have music," but it needs to be looked at in context, not just as a stand alone action scene. The lack of music in this ONE spot of the film draws you in more, and it also serves to make the next music cue (one of the most emotionally stirring in the film) that much more powerful; not hearing music for a few minutes "clears the palette" so the next time you hear it, it has more impact. I think adding music to the duel really takes away from one of Lucas' best choices as a director in Star Wars.

The only other moment that hurt the edit for me was that new shot of the TIEs coming in to the end battle. ALL your other work in this scene is stellar, but I must be candid and say this shot is the weak link. It doesn't feel like it matches the rest of the movie in style, and the render quality is poor (sorry to you guys who worked hard on it). The TIEs look dark and smooth, compared to the more light/white, detailed models you see everywhere else. This shot just doesn't work. I could swear I remember seeing an early version of this where you used the shot in the movie and cloned the TIEs to look like more coming in - do I remember this correctly? I would go with that one. I don't think you need a big "reveal" shot of TIEs coming it, as someone else it does change the pacing. The battle is already raging, the pilots are having a rough time, and then suddenly, WHAM in comes a squadron of TIE fighters! Seeing a quick shot of them coming in fast gives you the same quick "oh shit!" moment that the pilots would have.

And usng the "cloned" shot ties in with what you have done in much of the battle - seeing all those extra ships in the background REALLY makes a huge difference! I absolutely loved the way it made everything more busy and intense. It's awesome. And I agree, seeing the Death Star's gun begin to fire at the end is a FANTASTIC choice, again this is a shot that does more than look cool, it increases tension and dramatic impact.

Good job!

But I beg you... that one TIE fighter shot hurts your cut. That is the ONLY moment in the edit that says "amateur." Trust me.
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Hmm - I agree with your comments there about the music in the LS battle: all the saber battles in the 6 films are mostly without music for the very reasons you stated. Adding the soundtrack makes it feel less intense - in my opinion.

However, the TIE shot you are talking about seems to be the one 'holy shite that's brilliant' shot that most people have picked out as excellent, so I cant understand where you are coming from there. The cloned TIE shot Ady posted a while back looked precisely that - cloned, and therfore utterly fake. The big TIE reveal combined with the Imperial March is a standout moment of the whole edit I reckon.
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Originally posted by: Mojo_LA
I really think the flipper debate has missed the biggest point - whether or not it would be a hand or a flipper, in the few seconds we have to see the shot, a human hand simply has more emotional impact. With the flipper, it takes a few seconds - or even a repeat viewing - to know what you're looking at. This could be the #1 reason Lucas went with a hand.


I think it's pretty well established that the flipper prop wasn't available for the shot, so Lucas went with what he had on hand, if you'll pardon the pun. Someone will take me out back and spank me if I'm wrong. But I agree with your point completely (though I 100% disagree about the TIE shot). The hand is the better dramatic choice. If you're a SW geek who is already aware that Ponda Boba has flippers (they're hardly the focus of the quick shot that shows them, most people would miss that) and is already aware that Ponda is the one that gets sabered, the shot makes perfect sense. Someone watching the film for the first time, or even the tenth (and I realize they're not the target audience), or is otherwise going into that scene without the aforementioned knowledge, would only be confused. I've watched it countless times, and I was confused.

But once again, disclaimer time for the easily upset: Ady, do it however makes you happy, bro.

Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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I'm just glad to see my idea about the scorching of the edges of the jacket is agreed upon.

lol
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Agreed the TIE moment was a real "holy SHIYYYAAATTTTT" moment for me - REALLY gives the scene the added scale and tension it needs. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT

Music spotting is ultimately a personal thing. I would have left out music for reasons already discussed for the majority of the first death star conference scene, and also the duel, but it's Ady's artistic decision. With or without music it's still the version i shall watch from here on in.

As I said earlier on the only scene which really stood out as not fitting in at all were the added rocks/mesa to the scene just before artoo is captured by the Jawas. Other than that perfectionamondo!

All I can say is if I was Adyan right now I'd have an ego the size of Oola's assets....

- J
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Originally posted by: DF Shadow
I'm just glad to see my idea about the scorching of the edges of the jacket is agreed upon.

lol


Oh, you just reminded me of a thought I had while watching Ady's edit. [DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a suggestion to Ady. It's just a thought I had about something that would be kinda cool. No I don't think I can do better than Ady, and no I'm not going to make my own edit. Please relax. Thank you.]

Right after Vader strikes down Obi-Wan, Luke blasts the door controls and the door closes as Vader is approaching it. I thought, wouldn't it be cool if you see the door start glowing and Vader's light saber comes through it, a la Qui-Gon in TPM? Just seemed like a neat idea.

Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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lol! That is a neat idea actually!
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I like your idea, ron!

So now I finished watching "Star Wars Revisited".

It is soooooooooooooooooo great! What I like most is the Death Star Battle, especially when the Tie-Fighters arrive and you can hear the Imperial March. Just wonderful!!!
You did a great job Adywan! Congratulations!

Master Qui-Gon

Master Qui-Gon/TheRealDealReloaded On Youtube

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Originally posted by: Mojo_LA
The only other moment that hurt the edit for me was that new shot of the TIEs coming in to the end battle... This shot just doesn't work. I could swear I remember seeing an early version of this where you used the shot in the movie and cloned the TIEs to look like more coming in - do I remember this correctly? I would go with that one... But I beg you... that one TIE fighter shot hurts your cut. That is the ONLY moment in the edit that says "amateur." Trust me.


I have to disagree 100% with this. I think just the opposite is true: the cloned TIE shot is the one that looked amateurish, while the current shot looks fantastic. It was the one scene more than any other that made me say to myself, "How the hell did THAT get done?" To the average person (i.e., me), the TIEs look totally comparable to those inserted by ILM in the Special Edition.

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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Ok, I just got it from torrents and haven't watched the whole thing yet, but I have watched the scenes everyone's talking about: the various battles, cantina, etc.

The first thing I want to say is an honest and complete "thank you" to adywan for taking so much time and putting in so much effort to improve the film and fix what GL should have fixed in the first place. Generally, it's brilliant. Absolutely no-holds-barred brilliant. I like the inclusion of the Imperial March, that's fantastic, and the "Here they come" shot in the Battle of Yavin. A complete "oh my God" (even though as a Christian I consider it blasphemy to say that, I said it) moment for me. I would like to see how the saber duel would be without the additional music, as I'd have to hear them both to decide which I prefer, and maybe I'll do that once the DVD is released (or maybe not). The pauses and lack of music in the original theatrical were some of the most tense moments in the film for me. But that's not what this post is about.

I have some concerns (and maybe these aren't appropriate for this thread but would fit better in threads for ESB and ROTJ once you open them, in the near or far future) which mainly center on the usage of recomposited elements from the Episodes V and VI to enhance the battle scenes, introduction of the Death Star, escape of the Falcon, etc, where I recognized some of the shots (not all, but some). So if I wanted to watch the adywan version of IV, V, and VI here ten years later with my kids, it might look kind of like stock footage reuse. How many of the additional and enhanced shots are CGI and how many are just recomps? Again, I do really love what you've done. It's just that watching them back to back later on might feel a little strange.

Jeez, do you think that's enough worrying about tomorrow for today? I do.

Galen
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Just went back to check that TIE shot to see if I could spot anything 'amateur' about it. Nope. Pure class. Even the speed of the fighters matches the speed of movement in susbsequent shots. Absolutely awesome.
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Originally posted by: sunday256
Adywan, that's a much better Ponda arm. Excellent job. I'm torn between a human arm and Ponda's arm though. Since we see the gun being drawn from the human, my gut says to go with that but that goes against everything from the movie we originally saw.



I love this arm debate! To me it is such an insignificant part of the film compared to the fantastic work Adywan has done on this... Having said that I have been tempted by the Dark Side and rewatched the scene carefully. It does appear to me that the it is the Human who pulls out a blaster after being shoved. Ponda comes to his aid but it is the Human who is crying out in pain which implies his arm has been chopped. Listening to the soundtrack it definately sounds like the human guy's voice crying out...

I always thought it a little harsh of Obi-Wan to chop the arm off in the first place. With his skills and such I would have thought it 'uncivilized' of him.

Perhaps a different approach? How about instead of a severed arm, we have a blaster sliced in half sparking and smoking with perhaps a few severed fingertips? Still a painful injury but not as severe and more 'Jedi like' as he would have been going for the weapon? Just a thought.
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The only other moment that hurt the edit for me was that new shot of the TIEs coming in to the end battle. ALL your other work in this scene is stellar, but I must be candid and say this shot is the weak link. It doesn't feel like it matches the rest of the movie in style, and the render quality is poor (sorry to you guys who worked hard on it). The TIEs look dark and smooth, compared to the more light/white, detailed models you see everywhere else.
I have to disagree with you totally on this one. The Tie's look as good as the ones added in the SE and as for the colour they are exactly the same as the ones in the movie in . they change from white to grey throughout and there was nothing that could be done about that because that was how they were originally filmed in '77 and again in '97. The pic below shows the TIE on the left from Lucasfilm and the TIES in the new shot. Unless my eyes are screwed they look the same colour to me (don't forget i did say that the xvid came out a little darker than it should be for some reason):
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3545/tiesya6.jpg
I'm going to defend this shot because it has come out exactly as i wanted it to and i think it looks great. Will did a great job on this shot

As for Obi-Wan igniting his saber first being un-Jedi like then here's a short list that will back up my decision for him to ignite first:

AOTC - Anakin vs Dooku - Anaking runs towards him and ignites his saber first
ROTS - Yoda vs Sideous: Yoda ignites first
ROTS - Obi-Wan vs Anakin - Obi-Wan ignites first
ESB - Luke vs Vader - Luke ignites first (i know he isn't a Jedi yet)

In ROTS Obi-wan knows just how dangerous Anakin is so he is prepared so it makes sense that he would do the same the next time they meet
Right after Vader strikes down Obi-Wan, Luke blasts the door controls and the door closes as Vader is approaching it. I thought, wouldn't it be cool if you see the door start glowing and Vader's light saber comes through it, a la Qui-Gon in TPM? Just seemed like a neat idea.

I don't think that vader would have done that. After all he wanted them to escape because so they could track them to the rebel base so why would he be so keen to damage the battle station just to get to them when he wants them to go free?

As for the flipper shot i have to say i'm leaning a bit towards the human hand shot since i did that mock-up. But you'll just have to wait and see which ends up on the final DVD

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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oi dangelus, NO
i can't believe you'd allow anyone to hear that opinion on obi-wan not cutting off the arm
that's a real greedo shot first idea, in that it fundamentally changes a characters character
NO NO NO

there is already a thread "ESB and ROTJ Wishlist" which can easily be used as the official Revisited V-VI thread
figrin d'an and the modal nodes - best band name ever!
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Originally posted by: adywan
Right after Vader strikes down Obi-Wan, Luke blasts the door controls and the door closes as Vader is approaching it. I thought, wouldn't it be cool if you see the door start glowing and Vader's light saber comes through it, a la Qui-Gon in TPM? Just seemed like a neat idea.
I don't think that vader would have done that. After all he wanted them to escape because so they could track them to the rebel base so why would he be so keen to damage the battle station just to get to them when he wants them to go free?

That's an excellent point, Ady. Hadn't thought of that.

As for the flipper shot i have to say i'm leaning a bit towards the human hand shot since i did that mock-up. But you'll just have to wait and see which ends up on the final DVD

Count me among those who are delighted to hear that. But did I mention the seamless branching option? Oh, I did? Well I'll just shut up then.

Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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ron2112, seventiesfilmnut, I dissagree ( no offence ). It's not something I would demand Ady fix as much as the constant whiners over the flipper are doing. Al the shot really needs is just a little more speed IMO. A pretty easy fix for ADY. To do more ADY would have to re build the shot from the ground up.

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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'Constant whiners'? 'Demanding'?

No-one here has demanded anything of Ady, nor has there been any whining. As far as I can tell its been quite an in depth discussion, with nothing malicious or whiny about it. In fact Ady asked everyone's thoughts on that particular shot - which everyone gave in a civilised manner.

Come to think of it this is one of the most pleasant forums I visit - many others would have descended into a flame war over this sort of thing..
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Originally posted by: Fuser
No-one here has demanded anything of Ady, nor has there been any whining.


Whining about the flipper = minimal. Whining about the debate about the flipper = enough already.

As soon as folks start complaining about the people who are arguing about the people who are whining about the people who are debating about the flipper, I'm out.

proud to be a flipper-whiner,
Ron Moses

Avoid infestation. Rotate.

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Ady, I'm happy to see you're still following your own gut with this edit. Now more than ever I'm convinced of the old adage that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. It's good to hear you're going to keep doing what you think is best, and not be swayed by the multitudinous opinions of others (mine included).

As a side note, I'll hopefully be watching your edit with a friend tonight. I can't wait to see his reaction (he was floored a few weeks ago by the sample clips alone).

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers