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STAR WARS DVD Producer Van Ling answers the tough questions!

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STAR WARS DVD Producer Van Ling answers the tough questions! + More STAR WARS OT DVD’s in 2007?
Posted by mediamelt on September 23, 2004 05:41 PM | [ 1 ]

The Washington Post recently published an interesting online Q & A between Star Wars OT DVD producer Van Ling and an angry mob of Star Wars fans. Here’s some of the highlights:

Bethesda, Md.: Why make the changes in the films. Can’t you just leave the masterpeices the way they are?

Van Ling: It’s George Lucas’ position that he is making the versions of the films that he always wanted to make, and that as the original artist, he has that right. Personally, I respect his right to do that but would love to see the films as I originally fell in love with them, “flaws” and all.

Sound like Ling wants the original cuts released? Throughout the session he was repeatedly asked about Lucas’ decision to ignore history…

Falls Church, Va.: I understand that George Lucas meant to have all the “new” features in the original trilogy, but couldn’t there have been an option on the DVD for us purists to watch the ORIGINAL? I hate the new one with a passion.

Van Ling: George is doing the versions he feels are the ones he wants out there; you don’t have to like them, but you have to respect his right to do them. As a student of filmmaking, though, I would love to see the original versions available as well, since you can learn a lot about storytelling from why things were done a certain way and how things change.

Or this beauty…

Greenbelt, Md.: How badly did Lucas mangle these films for the DVD? I realize that the toys are the main profit area for him, but movies should be about more than merchandising placement (which is the problem with the lousy prequels).

Will there be a release of the original films on DVD at some point, or should we continue to buy pirated versions?

Van Ling: Talk about loaded questions! You’ll have to decide for yourself how you feel about what George has done to the films. As far as I understand, there are no plans to release the “original” versions of the films, which George considers to be unfinished versions. And no one should be buying pirated versions anyway, since these original versions are commercially available as legitimate product, just not on DVD.

That last comment reminds me of those anti-piracy terrorism commercials the MPAA ran a few years back. You remember… the ones where they tried to establish a link with buying a bootleg DVD and handing Osama a 5’er. Just remember: Every day Lucas keeps the original cuts off the market is a day the terrorists go on living!

Another hot topic was the rumored audio related issues on the Episode IV disc…

Alexandria, Va.: I understand from the DVD specialty site, Digital Bits, that there are some disturbing audio glitches that the studio is explaining as “intentional.” The glitches in Episode IV include a swapping of the left and right rear channels; the trumpet fanfare that used to play right after Red Leader says: “This is it!” and just as the X-wings start diving towards the Death Star’s surface has been dialed back in volume so that it’s almost inaudible; and audio quality that varies wildly e.g. - as Tarkin says the line: “You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system.” The sound element seems damaged.

Are you aware of these points, and if so, are you aware of efforts to correct the problem?

Van Ling: I’m not involved in the original audio or picture for the films at all, but I understand that Ben Burtt and the creative folks at Lucasfilm have addressed that concern in a statement. The presentation of the films has varied for years, with certain lines being changed or dropped or levels changing, and they certainly have the ability to do what they want, so I have to trust that what you see on the DVD is what they intended, even if you may disagree with their choices.

Ouch! I haven’t purchased the set, nor am I going to, so I have no idea what they are talking about. Sounds like Lucas really messed things up and won’t own up to it.

Ling (who, to be fair, seems like a genuinely nice guy) also talked about how he became a DVD producer, what it was like to work on a dream project like Star Wars, why certain extras were not included, and what might be in the future for Star Wars as far as DVD is concerned…

Washington, D.C.: Are you aware of any plans to release an “uber” collection of all 6 episodes in the future? Would such a collection be the place where fans can expect to find deleted scenes and other archival stuff not included in this release?

Van Ling: I would definitely expect something like that, probably around 2007. But I still think this current set is worth getting as well, since the content will be different for any future sets.

Of course, the 2007 date is pure speculation on Ling’s part and should be taken as such. Still, he is the DVD’s producer, and he makes mention of that date three times throughout the Q & A, so we may be seeing Star Wars: Specialer(er) Edition on the trilogy’s 30th anniversary.

Oh joy…

• Check out the rest of poor Van’s skewering here!

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/entertainment_ling092104.htm

 

Mod Edit: the link to the above interview unfortunately no longer works. It can, however, be seen via the Internet Archive’s WayBack Machine, here:-

http://web.archive.org/web/20080511210349/http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/entertainment_ling092104.htm

In it, not of it.
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Originally posted by: b4bishop

It's George Lucas' position that he is making the versions of the films that he always wanted to make, and that as the original artist, he has that right.


I keep hearing this totally erroneous comment, and no one ever takes either Lucas or his moron entourage up on it.

George Lucas DID NOT direct, write, produce, edit, act or otherwise contribute to the actual creation of the Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi movies. He simply got a stupid "Story and Characters By" credit, which in Hollywood basically means you wrote the first movie.

Lucas really only OWNS the last two movies, and just like Turner and his colorized versions, is seeking to change the vision of the script writers, the directors, the editors, the actors, the producer and all the other people who created ESB and ROTJ. It's pretty obvious this is his way of putting the "Lucas Stamp" on these exceptional movies, and Georgie The Hack just doesn't match up to that kind of talent.

That my friends, is pure, unadulterated ego.

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This was a previous thread topic and here's the answer...

Centreville, Va.: Even though Lucas thinks they are flawed, many fans would love, and in fact REQUIRE the originals. Is there any chance Lucas might just drop off the originals to the Criterion people, for instance?

Van Ling: I seriously doubt it. Sorry...
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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I don't understand the point of doing a 30th anniversary 2007 release, when the version Lucas is most likely to release will have nothing to do with the movie that was released 30 years beforehand, unless he suddenly has a radical change of heart and returns from the darkside and decides to release an archival set of the Original cuts, I think George will keep tinkering (burying) his original vision under layers and layers of CGI until his dying day.

I've made the comparison before, but I liken George and Star Wars to Michael Jackson and his ever changing face, neither of them happy with the way they looked in the early eighties, both George and Michael both used technology as a means to perfection, now in 2004 look at the Hideous looking freak Michael Jackson has become, how far away is the day when Star Wars is unrecognisable?

I think the best we can hope for in future is that George starts listening to what others are saying, and decides to undo some of damage he's done to the trilogy, reverting back to the original Han/greedo scene (really, how many arguments would be saved if Lucas admitted he was wrong on this change? I could just about live with the rest of the changes if this one was fixed) give up on Jabba in A New hope, unless you can make him look exactly like Jabba 2 films later in ROTJ (and I don't mean replacing Jabba in ROTJ with CG Jabba!) fix the new Emperor hologram in Empire strikes Back the new version would have been perfect without the additional dialogue and if they kept Mcdiarmids face shrouded ala Darth Sidious, got rid of Jedi Rocks, bring back lapti nek I don't mid if you give sy snootles and co a bit more articulation digitally, and get rid of Hayden at the end of ROTJ
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Some of the stuff posted here is just plain wrong.

George Lucas does have and always has had creative control of TESB and ROTJ. Not only has he had legal ownership of TESB and ROTJ from the beginning (and he gained ownership of ANH from Fox in the deal to distribute the SEs), his role as Executive Producer gave him final say on any aspect of the films. As Lucas explains in the ROTJ DVD commentary, the Star Wars sequels were managed more like a television series in which the Executive Producer controls the content and the director is merely hired to do the work necessary to get it on film, whereas normally in film the director is the main creative force. Because Lucas owned the films and paid for their production with his own money, he could assign and define jobs as he saw fit.

Furthermore, Lucas resigned from the Director's Guild of America and the Writer's Guild of America after they fined him for the lack of opening credits in TESB (after the unions had given him a waiver for the exact same "violation" in ANH), so, Hollywood union rules cannot be enforced against Lucas either, since he is not a member.

The bottom line is that Lucas is 100% within his rights to do anything he wants with these films. I don't want to be called a Lucas apologist for pointing out an objective fact.
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Remember, this is ONLY what Lucas says.

Many of those involved with the Original Trilogy think otherwise, and they were ON SET during the production. Harrison Ford has come out against the constant tinkering Lucas does, and "having Executive Producer control" does not mean Lucas CREATED the OT, only that he could -if he saw fit- say no to the Director, the Screenwriter, the Cinematographer, the Producer, the Cameramen, the Actors, the Editor, the Sound FX department, the Composer, and hundreds of other people who CREATED the OT.

They created the OT, Lucas (along with the real Producer) could only REVIEW and CONFIRM their creation. It's a pretty easy concept to understand, but it seems to go over the head's of many Lucas Fanboys.

Lucas does have the LEGAL RIGHT to screw up the OT, but he's no different than Ted Turner attempting to colorize classic movies. Both own the legal rights, so they can do what they want with someone ele's creation.

But that legal right does not make hacking up classic cinema morally right.
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It's a fact Lucas had ownership of TESB and ROTJ before the films were even made. It's a fact he hired everybody who ever worked on those films and paid them with his own money to do the job he wanted done. Lucas' description of history is accurate enough, and his belief in his right to alter the films is understandable enough. They were literally made for him.

Turner bought rights to existing films that he had no prior business or artistic connection to, and started tinkering. There's no moral equivalence between Turner's colorization of films and Lucas' continuing creative control of Star Wars.

Lucas' comments against colorization are about the original artists' right to control their creations. Lucas considers himself the lead artist who hires other artists to contribute material that he then selects or rejects to fit what he wants. He collaborated with people 20-30 years ago to get it the way he wanted then, and now he's collaborating with other people to get it the way he wants now.
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Just because Lucas stupidly CONSIDERS himself the sole creator of the Original Trilogy, doesn't make it so. He's no different than any other Producer/Exec. Producer who gets the money for the movie and organizes the talent... with the ONLY difference being that he also owns the rights.

So no, I don't see much different between Ted Turner and George Lucas, and I think it's quite insipid to consider Lucas the creator of the Star Wars Trilogy, any more than Albert S. Ruddy *created* The Godfather, or Lawrence Bender *created* Pulp Fiction.

Give me a break.

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The most disingenuous thing about George Lucas' changes is the fact that he is packaging them as an "artistic vision" that he had in 1977 but couldn't translate. That's a crock ... he's changing these films 4LOM (for the love of money). None of the changes he's made -- not to the 1997 release (which I took on the chin and didn't complain about) and not to this current DVD debacle -- were made to better the films. Indeed, this last round of changes was made as a way to force his prequels into the Star Wars saga ... so you can't watch the first three movies without recalling the Prequels. And I don't think he's done meddling yet.

Gary Kurtz, who was as much of a creative force in the first two Star Wars films as Lucas (some say he was far more active in Empire than Lucas) can't stand Lucas' meddling. He's one of many important individuals unhappy with the changes ... individuals whose work was evident in the first three films. Lucas has crapped on hundreds of artists' contributions.

Yeah, Lucas created the characters. And yes, he owns the copyright. That's unfortunate and it's the reason why studios usually acquire full rights to properties ... so the creators can't go in later and devalue the property.

Lucas has gone batshit crazy ... too bad he only has Yes-men and no real friends to help him out.
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"The presentation of the films has varied for years, with certain lines being changed or dropped or levels changing, and they certainly have the ability to do what they want"

Very true.

"so I have to trust that what you see on the DVD is what they intended, even if you may disagree with their choices."

Even when the foreign soundtrack has different (i.e. "correct") settings? LOL!

"Van Ling: I would definitely expect something like that, probably around 2007. But I still think this current set is worth getting as well, since the content will be different for any future sets."

Curious. Does the "different content" refer to the extra materials, or to the movies themselves? More changes, George?

"The bottom line is that Lucas is 100% within his rights to do anything he wants with these films. I don't want to be called a Lucas apologist for pointing out an objective fact. "

Actually, you are absolutely right. I just have a problem with how Lucas is exercising these rights.

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"They created the OT, Lucas (along with the real Producer) could only REVIEW and CONFIRM their creation. It's a pretty easy concept to understand, but it seems to go over the head's of many Lucas Fanboys.

Lucas does have the LEGAL RIGHT to screw up the OT, but he's no different than Ted Turner attempting to colorize classic movies. Both own the legal rights, so they can do what they want with someone ele's creation.

But that legal right does not make hacking up classic cinema morally right.


Well, I'm certainly not one to defend Lucas either, but you are seriously splitting hairs and mixing the issues in your argument here.

"So no, I don't see much different between Ted Turner and George Lucas, and I think it's quite insipid to consider Lucas the creator of the Star Wars Trilogy, any more than Albert S. Ruddy *created* The Godfather, or Lawrence Bender *created* Pulp Fiction."

By that reasoning, just because you don't see a difference between Turner and Lucas doesn't make it so, either. The only film he had to buy the rights to in order to change was ANH, which is ironic because it is the one film that was mostly his.

Now, if you wish to put a myopic focus on the strict definition of theatrical terminology in order to put 1) a man who financed, oversaw and finalized ESB and ROTJ on the same level as 2) a man who had no direct or peripheral involvment in the actual making of films which he later bought and changed, then go right ahead, but you are nowhere near making a relevant point.

Lucas did not want direct, day-to-day involvement with his films, but he was involved with them. Obviously, he's gotten way too involved with them now (as have we, apparently. )

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I'm going to have to side with Sam_Lu on this one. Obviously none of us were there on the set(s) so we'll never know the full story, but it seems pretty obvious that if you were to quantify the amount of creative/artistic input contributed to ESB and ROTJ, that the majority came from people other than Lucas (Kurtz, Kasdan, Marquand, ect). BUT, not only that, they actually made the movies EXCEPTIONAL. To disregard their contributions and instead consider them as nothing more than mere 'labor' is, well, just not my opinion.

And if you want proof, I present to you the prequels and the SE's.
40,000 million notches away
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"To disregard their contributions and instead consider them as nothing more than mere 'labor' is, well, just not my opinion."

I'm curious. Please point out where in my post that I disregarded their contributions. Also, please explain how any contribution on their part limits Lucas' rights and ownership of the films.

It's a moot and rather ridiculous point. These attempts to redefine, much less negate Lucas' ownership of the films miss the point entirely.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Not only is Lucas dumping on all the artists that worked on the originals, but he is dumping on the fans who fell in love with the originals. If Lucas would make the originals available, I wouldn't give a rats ass what he does to the films. But by going and doing what he wants and not giving ANYONE a choice makes him a selfish bastard! It's the fans who created his empire. As soon as he released his 'work in progress' to the public, we owned it. We bought it. We paid for Empire & Jedi. Show some respect to the people who made you what you are today. At least say thanks. You power hungry, selfish bastard. GEORGE LUCAS IS NOT GOD!

OK, sorry. Had to let that out.
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I'm curious. Please point out where in my post that I disregarded their contributions. Also, please explain how any contribution on their part limits Lucas' rights and ownership of the films.

MeBeJedi: pal! buddy! I wasn't referring to your comments (guess maybe I should stop being a lazy ass and start doing quotes ). I was only saying that while I agree Lucas, as the rightful owner, has the option of doing anything he wants, it might not be ethical/professional, especially considering the importance and abundance of the other people's contributions.
40,000 million notches away
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It's a moot and rather ridiculous point. These attempts to redefine, much less negate Lucas' ownership of the films miss the point entirely.


LOL, you're really out there, ain't ya buddy?

Let's say Bill Gates goes out and buys the Mona Lisa and just about every classic piece of art available, and then burns them all.

How you feel about those actions has NOTHING to do with legal ownership, and everything to do with a meglomaniac wantonly destroying pieces of our cultural heritage.

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Originally posted by: Sam_Lu
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It's a moot and rather ridiculous point. These attempts to redefine, much less negate Lucas' ownership of the films miss the point entirely.
Let's say Bill Gates goes out and buys the Mona Lisa and just about every classic piece of art available, and then burns them all.


There would be other prints available.
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I almost have to laugh. People want to rewrite history, to disparage Lucas for doing the same.

The stories were written by Lucas. The characters were created by Lucas. Everything was done with Lucas's approval. If you want to begin to say he merely 'owns' ESB and ROTJ, then you really have no compassion for the artist. These were George's films. When he wasn't physically able to actually shoot them, he chose the people he thought would best tell his story the way he wanted it. They did so. I don't think Kirschner for one minute believes ESB is his film, his vision. I don't think Kasden for one minute thinks that this was his story. They did the jobs, technically.

They were paid to do their jobs, like a cameraman or a grip is. Do you think the costume designer should have a say in way George wants his films to look? It's basically they same thing.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Okay, now you are really being a dingbat. Read my posts carefully. Better yet, let me reiterate more clearly...

"LOL, you're really out there, ain't ya buddy?

Let's say Bill Gates goes out and buys the Mona Lisa and just about every classic piece of art available, and then burns them all."

First of all, explain to me how this "never gonna happen" scenario isn't "out there" in and of itself

Secondly, in case you weren't aware, Bill Gates is behaving exactly like Lucas is in many ways...

First of all, Bill Gates never created DOS. He bought it from someone else and sold it off as his own software. I'll bet he's never written a piece a code since Windows. This would loosely tie in with your description of Lucas' "ownership" of ESB/ROTJ.

Furthermore, like Lucas, Bill Gates no longer acknowledges old versions of Windows (much less DOS) by stopping support for them, and only selling the "newest" version - also analogous to Lucas claiming the O-OT no longer exists.

"How you feel about those actions has NOTHING to do with legal ownership, and everything to do with a meglomaniac wantonly destroying pieces of our cultural heritage."

Whatever that means. How about we talk about what I like to call the "real world", and find a more reasonable example than your prior attempt:

O.J. Simpson's Heisman trophy.

First of all, I think O.J. was guilty, and should have been punished. That being said, when I saw that his Heisman trophy had been bought at auction and deliberately destroyed, I thought that was a ridiculous gesture. The trophy had nothing to do with the murder, nor did destroying it bring back the victims or bring any relief to the remaining family. It was simply an act committed as a gesture against what O.J. had recently done.

Now, I don't even want to watch old Police Squad movies anymore, because O.J.'s appearance in them kinda spoils the fun for me, but...

Did the people who bought the trophy at auction "own" it? Yes.

Did the people who bought the trophy at auction have the right destroy it? Yes

Was it necessary to destroy it? No. Even though I would never want to look upon the trophy personally, it does represent an important event, and its destruction was a real shame..

Now, back to Lucas. He is ultimately responsible for the Star Wars saga, regardless of whoever else worked on the films. He has put serious time, effort and money into these films, and has fought tooth and nail to maintain ownership of them from the studios. In the end, they are his baby.

Does he "own" them? Yes - especially after going back and purchasing the rights to ANH from Fox, WHICH OWNED ANH PRIOR TO THIS, in case you weren't aware of that little fact.

Does he have the right to change/modify/alter them? Yes, and has in fact done so long before the SE's ever came around. This was simply the greatest and most deliberate set of changes performed on the films at any one time.

Now, for the million dollar question: Should he change them?

In my personal opinion, no. In Lucas' opinion, why not?

They were fine the way they were, but he feels otherwise, and that's a sad fact for people like me and you to take. This is why I've invested over a thousand dollars and hours transferring the best LD material of the original films to DVD. Lucas is going to do what he wants, and I am going to do what I want.

And the next time you feel like contriving ridiculous pie-in-the-sky scenarios in some lame attempt to misrepresent how I feel about this situation: don't, because, once again, it misses the point entirely.

"They were paid to do their jobs, like a cameraman or a grip is. Do you think the costume designer should have a say in way George wants his films to look? It's basically they same thing."

Let's not forget about the first editor of ANH, whom George fired because he didn't want to edit the film George's way. Apparently, that guy thought ANH was his film.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Let's not forget about the first editor of ANH, whom George fired because he didn't want to edit the film George's way. Apparently, that guy thought ANH was his film.



Haha, that's right. I forgot about that guy.

I don't mean to sound like a drag. I want the original vision released just like the next guy. But let's make sure we keep everything in context here. George has the right as an owner and artist to change the films all he wants. As fans, we have the right to want the original vision on DVD as well. However, these new DVDs are FUN to watch. Boycotting them isn't going to change anything, unfortunately (as you can tell by the first day numbers). Should we give up the fight? No. But atleast give the DVDs a rent. 85%-95% of the films you remember are there, in wonderful color and sound. ESB is almost flawless, with the few minor changes of the SE.

This is what George wants, and I respect that. I think by showing him respect, and not showing up at conventions & yelling at him, or sending him hate mail, or coming up with conspiracy theories, is the best way to ever get through to him. Never lose sight of the fact that without Lucas, you wouldn't have these films to bitch about.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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"is the best way to ever get through to him."

At this point, I'd rather George not release the O-OT. My DVD's don't have any of the problems this new batch has. I'd prefer he just gave me all the masters I needed, and let me do the job for him.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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sure George owns the movies, but if you add up everything you've spent on Star Wars over the last 27 years, both the films and merchandising, doesn't that make us all share/stakeholders? and if so , it's been a long time since that initial investment has made any decent returns.
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"doesn't that make us all share/stakeholders? and if so , it's been a long time since that initial investment has made any decent returns."

LOL! Too bad Lucas has turned into Eisner.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MeBeJedi really makes truly valid points to me, even though I never doubted the movies were his (Lucas) to begin with. One thing in the "new" set cracked me up though. Lucas claims the OT doesn't exist anymore ... then where the hell and how the hell did they get the original opening crawl for Star Wars (the 1977 version !) in such good quality for the "Empire of Dreams" documentary ? ...

PS. MeBeJedi ... any thread I should check to read more about those rips you are apparenty doing ?
"... Forever Eyes. Dark. Somebody's Angel ..."