I have a few issues with the film but I am pretty forgiving… I do think the start is a bit wrong not in any major way but there is a few obvious pointers to how it went a bit wrong but I am by and large down with it.
Let’s just say I am letting it off the hook.
Tyrphanax said:
I just wanna address this because it was my first thought in the theater and I quickly explained it to myself, so the continual complaints about it have been bothering me for a bit.…Obviously, from a cinematic standpoint, landing further away gives you the drama and tension of the walk to the house. We all know that much. But “cinematically good” doesn’t always make sense realistically.
…there’s the chance that they’re taking precautions in case the Erso’s mined or otherwise trapped the surrounding area, considering he’s hiding from the Empire and has known Rebel connections.
…it comes down to a matter of politeness…especially when you’re making a “social call” to “appeal to a friend” to help you with a project.
I agree with you on some people getting weirdly hung up on the landing location. Personally, I think if someone goes into a film expecting to be let down, that’s most likely what will happen. Put another way; if a person is always looking for an excuse, they’ll find one. As we were discussing a few days ago, people tend to overlook things when they like a film and criticize those same elements when they don’t like a film.
Above are passages of yours that I think are well thought possible explanations. I also wanted to address another. I like your take on the cinematic reason for the long walk. It creates visual tension for the viewer. In-universe, it would create a physiological tension for the family. It also drew him out of the house and away from a position of safety. Fewer surprises from a guy walking out to talk. The aggressor controls the situation.
TavorX said:
Wow, you just made me realize how damn emotional it would be if Galen was found on Scarif by Jyn. Instead of random romantic hands scene between Jyn and Cassian, it would had fit SO MUCH better if Jyn was crying and hugging Galen as their final moments slip away into the explosion left by the Death Star.
I was very happy that they avoided something that melodramatic. This isn’t a feel-good story. It’s harsh. The characters don’t get moments of inner peace or closure the way they did in the previous films. No “we’ll find Han”, no Ben talking to Luke in the trench run, and no Force ghosts waving goodbye. This is a war film.
Personally, I think if someone goes into a film expecting to be let down, that’s most likely what will happen. Put another way; if a person is always looking for an excuse, they’ll find one. As we were discussing a few days ago, people tend to overlook things when they like a film and criticize those same elements when they don’t like a film.
TavorX said:
Wow, you just made me realize how damn emotional it would be if Galen was found on Scarif by Jyn. Instead of random romantic hands scene between Jyn and Cassian, it would had fit SO MUCH better if Jyn was crying and hugging Galen as their final moments slip away into the explosion left by the Death Star.I was very happy that they avoided something that melodramatic. This isn’t a feel-good story. It’s harsh. The characters don’t get moments of inner peace or closure the way they did in the previous films. No “we’ll find Han”, no Ben talking to Luke in the trench run, and no Force ghosts waving goodbye. This is a war film.
It’s not like my idea is all that chipper to begin with? They’d still die by the hands of the Death Star.
The Rise of Failures
Sadly I think what is missing from that prologue opening is that Galen burnt any research that he was studying and also by all accounts the novel delves in to a scene where Galen is at odds with Lyra just being killed before he goes on board Krennics shuttle.
Which is skimmed over in not a good way but apparently this stuff exists, So one can hope one day we will we see the full consequence of Galen Burning his research and his struggle with Lyra being killed.
I think it is important to not cut away these layers. But they did unfortunately.
But they never found his daughter and that message still stands I guess.
Just saw the film for the third time - it will be my last time seeing it in a theater. This time I saw it in 70mm IMAX, so I think I’ve experienced most of the high-end formats. I’d say that as much as I personally tend to like 3D, for this film the 70mm film looked better. It made it look more real, more like a “war” film (as someone said earlier). It’s also a fairly dark film (in color), and the 2D 70mm was easier to actually see.
I noticed a couple of things I missed before:
First, each time they use the Death Star, they specify “single laser”. This is consistent with the full reveal of its power being left for episode 4.
Frink says that Vader rejected Krennik’s plea – I think he actually accepted it. After choking him, he pointedly calls him “director” Krennik, and Krennik smiles as he recovers. So Vader made it clear that he still considers him in charge - for now. However, as we see, Krennik decides to travel to Skarif, and Tarkin pulls the rug out from under him. Tarkin is more than happy to destroy Skarif because it kills two birds with one stone - destroys the plans the rebels are after, and gets Krennik out of the way.
The music chosen for the scene when the Star Destroyer crashes through the shield is really brilliant. Rather than a triumphant exciting piece, a beautiful ballad plays. Fabulous!
I agree with Anchorhead about the too-fast cuts. But this is a problem with lots of movies today. Everything is quick, quick, quick. Makes we wonder if these actors could sustain a scene longer than 2 seconds. And I also agree that Saw’s character is ridiculous.
The scene when Chirrut is dying and Baze comforts him by affirming his mantra remains the most convincing single acting moment in the film, to me. It is really a sweet moment.
Other than that, Krennik and K2SO have the strongest parts. Jyn is positively wooden.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Interesting observation about Vader & Krennic that I totally missed. In a way, Vader just wants to see who’s going to be the top selling bid, Tarkin or Krennic? I now like the additional layer added to that sequence; thanks for pointing it out.
The Rise of Failures
This is a very bleak war film set in the Star Wars universe we know and love. That alone is going to cause problems for some people. Even knowing that going in, it was still a bit of a “short circuit” going on in my head the whole time. We would never see our regular heroes snapping someone’s neck, or little Artoo being blasted to pieces permanently.
It was a calculated gamble to break with the established style and “fun” of a traditional SW episode. Now that it’s paid off, the next couple films have a blank check to take more risks and be different.
I actually want to see a Boba Fett “Western” now. Do it totally like a Sergio Leone film.
Kevin Rubio could make his “Tag and Bink Are Dead” comic into the funniest SW film ever made.😉
Where were you in '77?
Frink says that Vader rejected Krennik’s plea
I think you have me confused with someone else.
It is just not a very well made movie. From a directing standpoint, from a cinematography standpoint (there basically isn’t any), from a screenwriting standpoint, from an acting standpoint, from an editing standpoint (cut, cut, cut, even in the middle of a death scene), from an anything standpoint. It is a poorly made film.
Contrary to what Adywan says, criticizing these films would not be an annual thing if Disney actually did one thing: make a good film! Or at least a film well-made.
Remember those wonderful RLM videos about the prequels? Remember their filmmaking criticisms? Those apply to these poorly made sequels as well. These newer movies are perhaps not as bad, and they perhaps have some redeeming qualities in comparison, but they are still poorly made films. It’s easy to say they are just movies, they are just fun, Star Wars doesn’t have to be great cinema, etc.
But the truth is that the original Star Wars changed filmmmaking forever. It won 7 Academy Awards and was nominated for best picture. The Empire Strikes Back is objectively one of the very best films ever made. Return of the Jedi is not quite as good, but the filmmaking talent is still considerably better than what we got from JJ and Edwards/Gilroy.
If you cannot see these things as anything more than cartoons, I feel sorry for you. But to each their own.
Tyrphanax said:
I just wanna address this because it was my first thought in the theater and I quickly explained it to myself, so the continual complaints about it have been bothering me for a bit.…Obviously, from a cinematic standpoint, landing further away gives you the drama and tension of the walk to the house. We all know that much. But “cinematically good” doesn’t always make sense realistically.
…there’s the chance that they’re taking precautions in case the Erso’s mined or otherwise trapped the surrounding area, considering he’s hiding from the Empire and has known Rebel connections.
…it comes down to a matter of politeness…especially when you’re making a “social call” to “appeal to a friend” to help you with a project.
I agree with you on some people getting weirdly hung up on the landing location. Personally, I think if someone goes into a film expecting to be let down, that’s most likely what will happen. Put another way; if a person is always looking for an excuse, they’ll find one. As we were discussing a few days ago, people tend to overlook things when they like a film and criticize those same elements when they don’t like a film.
Above are passages of yours that I think are well thought possible explanations. I also wanted to address another. I like your take on the cinematic reason for the long walk. It creates visual tension for the viewer. In-universe, it would create a physiological tension for the family. It also drew him out of the house and away from a position of safety. Fewer surprises from a guy walking out to talk. The aggressor controls the situation.
Great point. I went in wanting to enjoy a fun and different Star Wars film and so most of my issues were small and easily explained away (like with the shuttle landing area). I also really like your added in-universe explanation, it definitely feels Imperial and I think especially fits Krennic as a character.
TavorX said:
Wow, you just made me realize how damn emotional it would be if Galen was found on Scarif by Jyn. Instead of random romantic hands scene between Jyn and Cassian, it would had fit SO MUCH better if Jyn was crying and hugging Galen as their final moments slip away into the explosion left by the Death Star.I was very happy that they avoided something that melodramatic. This isn’t a feel-good story. It’s harsh. The characters don’t get moments of inner peace or closure the way they did in the previous films. No “we’ll find Han”, no Ben talking to Luke in the trench run, and no Force ghosts waving goodbye. This is a war film.
Exactly. The deaths are fast and unglamorous like in a war film. Sure it’s not to the level of brutality of Saving Private Ryan or Black Hawk Down, but watching Bodhi have his moment of triumph in contacting the Rebel fleet and then dying almost immediately after is something we haven’t seen in Star Wars yet. Even old Ben has his moment of closure between his discussion with Vader and his glance at Luke. Bodhi just straight up died.
The closest we get to the idea of a romantic death are Chirrut and Baze, but they have a connection to the Force and one another so that makes sense.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
^^
Wait what the f did you just say there basically isn’t any cinematography? Do you have even a little bit of an idea of what you’re talking about? Also, why would you spend money to see a movie you hate again? Why are you spending so much time tearing it apart?
I just don’t get it.
Wait what the f did you just say there basically isn’t any cinematography? Do you have even a little bit of an idea of what you’re talking about? Also, why would you spend money to see a movie hate again? Why are you spending so much time tearing it apart?
I just don’t get it.
I guess he’s trolling his own life…?
Frink says that Vader rejected Krennik’s plea
I think you have me confused with someone else.
Sorry, you are you are right. It was Adywan who said that.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Part 5: Battle of Scarif
Like most people, I enjoyed quite a bit of the action in this last act and it was undoubtedly the strength of the film. I said earlier that the battle was unnecessary from a story point of view, once Jyn’s father had died, but I’ve since reconsidered. Everything could have been fixed by combining Eadu and Scarif into one base and saving Galen’s death for the end.
Anyway, the action was pretty good in the space battle. One thing I do think was missed was the possibility to set a more fatalistic tone for our heroes on Scarif. At some point, they become trapped on the planet, and the recognition that their mission had turned into a noble, heroic suicide mission, would have been quite profound. Imagine if our characters suddenly realize there is no way they are making it off the planet alive, but they have their job to do anyway, to save the galaxy. Instead, we see people trying in vain to survive right up until the end. It makes me think of Luke’s added scream in the '97 SE.
In that light, I have no idea why the whole data tower was necessary, considering R2 could just plug into the Death Star computer at will. It’s contrived nonsense, but whatever, once Jyn and Cassian are climbing the thing, Krennic comes in and fires a blaster at them. Cassian should have been killed in this scene. Again, the tone should have been fatalistic. Cassian should have died, and the camera should have immediately cut to Jyn. And the stakes would have been dramatically raised. Jyn has to dig down deeper if her mission is to succeed. Instead we get the whole roll-your-eyes cliche with Cassian coming back from the not-quite-dead, the evil villain confronting the hero, etc. etc.
Oh well, once again, at least the space battles are cool. The shield gate looked great, even its destruction. The Star Destroyers crashing into each other did not look as good, because the CGI made one of them look like it was made of quicksand. The editing was significantly better in this part of the film compared to what we got in The Force Awakens last battle. The casting was a little better, although a couple of the rebel pilots still look like they are some Disney execs kids, or maybe they won a raffle to be in a Star Wars film. I don’t know.
By far the best part of the entire movie was Vader at the end. LOVED it! They should have saved him exclusively for this scene. Really gets you excited to watch the original Star Wars again, or at least that last scene does anyway.
Final grade of this movie? I think it’s as poorly made as the prequels honestly. But again, I don’t hate it as much, because there’s no midichlorians or Yoda spinning around like a monkey; nothing in this movie offends me or desecrates the OT in the way Lucas later did.
It’s just a boring movie that isn’t very well made.
DominicCobb said:
Also, why would you spend money to see a movie you hate again? Why are you spending so much time tearing it apart?I just don’t get it.
I took my family to see it because they wanted to see it. That doesn’t make sense to you? Maybe you should re-evaluate your priorities in life.
ok man
Exactly. The deaths are fast and unglamorous like in a war film.
This isn’t true. The deaths were not fast. They were slow. There were just a million cuts during the scenes. That doesn’t equal fast. That equals terrible editing.
Final grade of this movie? I think it’s as poorly made as the prequels honestly.
Sounds reasonable.
DominicCobb said:
Also, why would you spend money to see a movie you hate again? Why are you spending so much time tearing it apart?I just don’t get it.
I took my family to see it because they wanted to see it. That doesn’t make sense to you? Maybe you should re-evaluate your priorities in life.
Your family made you write an essay on originaltrilogy.com about why you hated it so much? Maybe you should re-evaluate your family.
I think you should probably take a step back from your shilling, and leave people’s families out of this. Get real dude.
Haha you brought them into it, he was just making a joke.
Also, I saw Hacksaw Ridge a few weeks ago. I don’t know how many people saw it. But it’s a violent, gritty war film. There are definitely parts where deaths are glossed over. They happen and then the camera cuts away from them and never returns. Those are fast deaths. Then there are some other deaths that are more dramatic. The camera lingers, and by extension, the audience’s attention lingers. Since the film slows down for a moment or two, so does the editing. There are not twenty cuts in the middle of these slower death scenes.
It’s just basic filmmaking.
I like Star Wars a lot, but “the original star wars changed filmmaking forever, it won 7 oscars” and “objectively one of the best movies ever made” are way too ambitious statements.
Not always what you (in fact, what we all) like is the best.
Star Wars is just a movie that not even closely reaches to the highest cinema can give as a form of art. Nor will it ever. It’s a technological fantasy, and it’s supposed to be a fun ride. Within Star Wars movies, some are more serious and more fun than others, but not even one of them raises questions of existencial complexity as true art does, or should do.
The media phenomenon around it shouldn’t cloud its value, for good or bad. Kids stuff, as its own author said.
In fact the main trouble with the prequels is that they tried to bee more serious than what was possible for a space soap opera.
They were, are, and will be enjoyable and fun as ever precisely because they don’t raise those questions, and they simplify and present a world were good and evil are generally delimitated and the moral compass is almost fixed; these movies make us divert from those questions, and are plain and pure entertainment.
At least personally, Rogue One did entertain me, and among many other things, it was able to transportate me into the aesthetics of a universe I felt the same as the one I remember from when as a kid. That’s all I could ask from these movies, and that’s were TFA failed to me.