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I agree, though I’m not a fan of the choir (kinda over the top).
The Rise of Failures
Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 96
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I loved having lots o’ Tarkin in the film, and I was willing to accept the inherent trade-offs to get it.
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Saw this for the first time last night, so here’s some mind vomit:
Rogue One happened to elevate my appreciation towards the original trilogy and The Force Awakens. The directors behind those films are WAY better at knowing how to pace their scenes from start to finish. Like seriously, Rogue One has really awful pacing aside from the last act. There was simply little cohesion and felt way too rocky when we transitioned from one location to another.
(This video explains how ANH’s editing does wonders for a film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NAhAEQUk8M)
This film in essence had little sense of guided direction and therefore its foundation is extremely weak. JJ Abrams, I felt, did his homework and utilized these techniques in TFA. Gareth Edwards? Hardly. He’s supremely brilliant at framing action scenes, no question about that, but very immature when it came to stringing together a narrative and development of characters.
It almost amazes me that so many high ratings are given to this film simply because of the last act, when so little was built up to give everything that emotional impact preceding the events.
Now, I won’t lie, I myself genuinely did enjoy the last spectacle, but not as much as I had hoped. I do applaud that there was least an attempt to cleverly weave in references that helped contribute to the story. Such things like using the original Squadron of X-Wing/Y-Wing pilots from the Trench Run and incorporate them into this battle was a very nice tie-in. Also, being a KOTOR fan, I REALLY did not expect to see a Hammerhead Corvette.
Show spoiler
Though I realize it’s not the exact ship since the Hammerhead ship in that film is featuring the variant shown in the Rebels cartoon. Still, it was equally humorous and epic to see that ship being used as a little battle ram!
Vader… hm. I was rather disappointed the way he was handled. When I picture pre-ANH Vader, I picture him, at least at this point in the Star Wars timeline, to be in close proximity to Tarkin.
Leia: “Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader’s leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.”
Instead, Vader is seemingly uninvolved with the Empire, chilling at his secluded castle on… Mustafar… what? Felt out of character. I expected Vader to be more watchful and observing from a distance within the Empire. Totally would had been better if Vader acted like a dog for Tarkin, standing by his side. Because now, it does not connect Rogue One’s Vader to A New Hope’s Vader where Tarkin somehow, out of the blue, has that kind of authority to tell Vader a command like, “Vader, release him!” Too jarring.
Oh my, I haven’t talked about the main cast! Well… they’re there? I guess? I actually thought Jyn’s little emotional moment with her father’s message to be somewhat impacting, as I could see the wall of hardened pain and tension within her, suddenly break down. Yet, that’s pretty much the only emotional performance we get, and so little chemistry was ever established between her and the other characters. I wanted to feel the despair from seeing all these characters dying, but I couldn’t. It just felt like forced check boxes the writers were after simply because they had to die.
And dear lord, what a WASTE of Forest Whitaker! The trailers made it seem like he would offer a compelling dynamic between him and Jyn in their fight against the tyranny of the Empire. But NOPE! He could had been easily cut from the story because he essentially served little to no purpose. His presence in the film was so full of cringe and extremely over the top with little depth to justify it. His death was more comical than tragic.
Overall, I actually appreciate seeing some gritty Rebel vs Empire stuff. I kinda felt the contrast of losing hope so that A New Hope could be the story about gaining hope. But damn does it lack conviction.
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One could argue that after what Tarkin did to that Imperial facility, the Emperor might instruct Vader to keep a close eye on him, lest the good Governor get any funny ideas.
Where were you in '77?
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One could argue that after what Tarkin did to that Imperial facility, the Emperor might instruct Vader to keep a close eye on him, lest the good Governor get any funny ideas.
Possibly, that kinda works for me actually. Still… I think there should had been a defined point in RO where you see the dynamic between Vader and Tarkin form. They never had contact with each other in this film, so it just seems kinda sudden when they reappear in that Imperial meeting in ANH; I get the impression Tarkin and Vader have some kind of history in that scene, but I don’t get that feeling anymore from RO.
The Rise of Failures
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Most of that history comes from The Clone Wars series.
Where were you in '77?
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One could argue that after what Tarkin did to that Imperial facility, the Emperor might instruct Vader to keep a close eye on him, lest the good Governor get any funny ideas.
Indeed! As Tarkin himself says in the January 1976 draft of SW, “With the right maneuvering, I could be Emperor.”
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
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Most of that history comes from The Clone Wars series.
Makes sense then, as I still haven’t really ever finished that series, but sounds excusable if it already has been explored prior.
The Rise of Failures
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Back to the topic of Giacchino’s score, I found this bridge at 3:30 in “Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn About The Force” from the Star Wars '77 soundtrack, it’s exactly the Jyn Erso theme from RO, take a listen:
https://youtu.be/soNidwqk1U4?t=3m30s
Personally, I think that section sucks as a main theme, it’s too simplistic, but it does sound like it was actually a callback to the original score for ANH.
Edit: It seems someone in the YouTube comments beat me to it
That’s pretty cool. I’ve seen people point out that Jyn’s theme is based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because there are a few direct quotations of it throughout the RO score, and of course SW before it (especially during Burning Homestead). I guess I never noticed it but that bit^ is definitely based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because it’s when Luke is rejecting his fate/destiny (which is of course flipped in the aforementioned Burning Homestead scene).
Yeah they mention both of these in the podcast linked awhile back. It’s very cool stuff, and amazing to think Giacchino was able to make it in four weeks. I’d never have been able to come up with little homages and references like that in a year.
Oh interesting. I was worried it’d just be some dudes talking about which music was “memorable” and “hummable” or something. Might have to check it out.
As for Giacchino, he said in an interview something about his brother I think encouraged him to take the job because he’s been writing it in his head for the last 40 years. So in some ways I feel like the homages might have been the easy part. Still, an amazing feat.
It’s really worth a listen. I don’t often post links like that so I make sure they’re actually worthwhile first hahaha.
Cool. I have heard good things but I guess I’m just skeptical in general (especially of SW podcasts, of which there are far too many). Will probably take a listen soon.
Report: solid listen. That one guy knows his stuff. It’s one thing to point out themes, but it’s another thing to do a technical, musical breakdown from an actual musician. That’s not something I have much knowledge of, so it’s very cool to hear (and I love that he has a piano for demonstration). Very interested to find out what he has to say about the TFA soundtrack.
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We have our very first anthology film and people are already complaining about fatigue.
You know, yeah it’s definitely silly to complain about fatigue, especially since is only the fifth non-bullshit Star Wars movie in 40 years. But I do think it’s a legitimate fear. I think, quality aside, RO definitely did end up being much more of a classic SW film than many were expecting, and much more directly linked to the main saga (and much less standalone). If these spin-offs don’t become more of their own thing, I definitely would begin to worry about over saturation.
Not yet of course, though I will admit, when the classic end credits popped up at then end, one of my first thoughts was that something here didn’t feel right. Maybe I’m just used to having to wait 3 years or more (forever it at one point seemed) for new Star Wars, but there is a part of my that doesn’t think we should have been getting a random SW tale in the one year in between VII and VIII. Maybe I’m just crazy like that?
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Back to the topic of Giacchino’s score, I found this bridge at 3:30 in “Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn About The Force” from the Star Wars '77 soundtrack, it’s exactly the Jyn Erso theme from RO, take a listen:
https://youtu.be/soNidwqk1U4?t=3m30s
Personally, I think that section sucks as a main theme, it’s too simplistic, but it does sound like it was actually a callback to the original score for ANH.
Edit: It seems someone in the YouTube comments beat me to it
That’s pretty cool. I’ve seen people point out that Jyn’s theme is based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because there are a few direct quotations of it throughout the RO score, and of course SW before it (especially during Burning Homestead). I guess I never noticed it but that bit^ is definitely based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because it’s when Luke is rejecting his fate/destiny (which is of course flipped in the aforementioned Burning Homestead scene).
Yeah they mention both of these in the podcast linked awhile back. It’s very cool stuff, and amazing to think Giacchino was able to make it in four weeks. I’d never have been able to come up with little homages and references like that in a year.
Oh interesting. I was worried it’d just be some dudes talking about which music was “memorable” and “hummable” or something. Might have to check it out.
As for Giacchino, he said in an interview something about his brother I think encouraged him to take the job because he’s been writing it in his head for the last 40 years. So in some ways I feel like the homages might have been the easy part. Still, an amazing feat.
It’s really worth a listen. I don’t often post links like that so I make sure they’re actually worthwhile first hahaha.
Cool. I have heard good things but I guess I’m just skeptical in general (especially of SW podcasts, of which there are far too many). Will probably take a listen soon.
Report: solid listen. That one guy knows his stuff. It’s one thing to point out themes, but it’s another thing to do a technical, musical breakdown from an actual musician. That’s not something I have much knowledge of, so it’s very cool to hear (and I love that he has a piano for demonstration). Very interested to find out what he has to say about the TFA soundtrack.
You’ll be happy to learn there’s a four-part series on it!
http://www.rebelforceradio.com/shows/2015/12/30/star-wars-oxygen-vol-25-the-force-awakens-part-1
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
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Back to the topic of Giacchino’s score, I found this bridge at 3:30 in “Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn About The Force” from the Star Wars '77 soundtrack, it’s exactly the Jyn Erso theme from RO, take a listen:
https://youtu.be/soNidwqk1U4?t=3m30s
Personally, I think that section sucks as a main theme, it’s too simplistic, but it does sound like it was actually a callback to the original score for ANH.
Edit: It seems someone in the YouTube comments beat me to it
That’s pretty cool. I’ve seen people point out that Jyn’s theme is based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because there are a few direct quotations of it throughout the RO score, and of course SW before it (especially during Burning Homestead). I guess I never noticed it but that bit^ is definitely based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because it’s when Luke is rejecting his fate/destiny (which is of course flipped in the aforementioned Burning Homestead scene).
Yeah they mention both of these in the podcast linked awhile back. It’s very cool stuff, and amazing to think Giacchino was able to make it in four weeks. I’d never have been able to come up with little homages and references like that in a year.
Oh interesting. I was worried it’d just be some dudes talking about which music was “memorable” and “hummable” or something. Might have to check it out.
As for Giacchino, he said in an interview something about his brother I think encouraged him to take the job because he’s been writing it in his head for the last 40 years. So in some ways I feel like the homages might have been the easy part. Still, an amazing feat.
It’s really worth a listen. I don’t often post links like that so I make sure they’re actually worthwhile first hahaha.
Cool. I have heard good things but I guess I’m just skeptical in general (especially of SW podcasts, of which there are far too many). Will probably take a listen soon.
Report: solid listen. That one guy knows his stuff. It’s one thing to point out themes, but it’s another thing to do a technical, musical breakdown from an actual musician. That’s not something I have much knowledge of, so it’s very cool to hear (and I love that he has a piano for demonstration). Very interested to find out what he has to say about the TFA soundtrack.
You’ll be happy to learn there’s a four-part series on it!
http://www.rebelforceradio.com/shows/2015/12/30/star-wars-oxygen-vol-25-the-force-awakens-part-1
Perfect.
- Time
- Post link
Back to the topic of Giacchino’s score, I found this bridge at 3:30 in “Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn About The Force” from the Star Wars '77 soundtrack, it’s exactly the Jyn Erso theme from RO, take a listen:
https://youtu.be/soNidwqk1U4?t=3m30s
Personally, I think that section sucks as a main theme, it’s too simplistic, but it does sound like it was actually a callback to the original score for ANH.
Edit: It seems someone in the YouTube comments beat me to it
That’s pretty cool. I’ve seen people point out that Jyn’s theme is based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because there are a few direct quotations of it throughout the RO score, and of course SW before it (especially during Burning Homestead). I guess I never noticed it but that bit^ is definitely based in Dies Irae, which makes sense because it’s when Luke is rejecting his fate/destiny (which is of course flipped in the aforementioned Burning Homestead scene).
Yeah they mention both of these in the podcast linked awhile back. It’s very cool stuff, and amazing to think Giacchino was able to make it in four weeks. I’d never have been able to come up with little homages and references like that in a year.
Oh interesting. I was worried it’d just be some dudes talking about which music was “memorable” and “hummable” or something. Might have to check it out.
As for Giacchino, he said in an interview something about his brother I think encouraged him to take the job because he’s been writing it in his head for the last 40 years. So in some ways I feel like the homages might have been the easy part. Still, an amazing feat.
It’s really worth a listen. I don’t often post links like that so I make sure they’re actually worthwhile first hahaha.
Cool. I have heard good things but I guess I’m just skeptical in general (especially of SW podcasts, of which there are far too many). Will probably take a listen soon.
Report: solid listen. That one guy knows his stuff. It’s one thing to point out themes, but it’s another thing to do a technical, musical breakdown from an actual musician. That’s not something I have much knowledge of, so it’s very cool to hear (and I love that he has a piano for demonstration). Very interested to find out what he has to say about the TFA soundtrack.
You’ll be happy to learn there’s a four-part series on it!
http://www.rebelforceradio.com/shows/2015/12/30/star-wars-oxygen-vol-25-the-force-awakens-part-1
Perfect.
I’ve just started it. Also there’s a separate entry that goes into the musical influences of the soundtrack.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
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Well shit looks like they have ones for all the scores too.
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Yep. They’re good stuff!
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
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I loved having lots o’ Tarkin in the film, and I was willing to accept the inherent trade-offs to get it.
This is a great take and the correct one.
The Emperor is the big bad, boogie man of the Star Wars films but Tarkin (to me) represents what the Empire is all about.
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One could argue that after what Tarkin did to that Imperial facility, the Emperor might instruct Vader to keep a close eye on him, lest the good Governor get any funny ideas.
Well, keep in mind that the Emperor also once (if you accept the prequels) created an entire robot army and an entire clone army, had them fight each other in a destructive civil war and then called the whole thing off in the matter of like 20 minutes killing everyone important on both sides.
I don’t think he’d have a problem with what Tarkin did.
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One could argue that after what Tarkin did to that Imperial facility, the Emperor might instruct Vader to keep a close eye on him, lest the good Governor get any funny ideas.
Well, keep in mind that the Emperor also once (if you accept the prequels) created an entire robot army and an entire clone army, had them fight each other in a destructive civil war and then called the whole thing off in the matter of like 20 minutes killing everyone important on both sides.
I don’t think he’d have a problem with what Tarkin did.
He might have a problem with Tarkin having the DS pop up over Coruscant and open fire on his palace though. 😉
Where were you in '77?
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I would be interested to know just how many more subplots/alternate plots/deleted scenes were filmed from Rogue One. For fan editors, I wonder if there is enough footage to split the film into two parts. The climax of film one being the events that happen on Eadu. The second film being all about the big moments for the Rebellion and Erso’s group attacking Scariff.
I’m not suggesting that this theatrically should have been two films or anything like that. From a fan edit POV, I wonder how different the first hour of the film was with all this alternate footage we are seeing. The stuff with Saw, the shots of Vader in front of the Death Star screen, the weirdos on Jedha. Even restoring the original plot point that the communications dish and the archives were not located in the same building and having Erso make her way across the island and battling the garrison.
I like the film the way it was cut for the theatrical release, although I would still remove the flashback scene and replace it with a crawl but I feel like there is so much that was removed and then replaced that there is almost a whole other film in there.
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We have our very first anthology film and people are already complaining about fatigue.
I don’t think the fatigue would come from Star Wars entirely, it’s more an extension of all the other stuff the film industry is doing, specifically with Marvel, and the other Disney properties. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. So it’s less the first anthology movie, and more the 23rd “cinematic universe” movie. This is not the fault of Rogue One at all, but of Disney’s handling of their franchises.
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“Handling” in that last sentence might be better expressed as “strip-mining.” The relentless exploitation of superhero franchise films is threatening to run down Marvel in the same way Star Trek was exhausted in the 1990s.
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
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I would be interested to know just how many more subplots/alternate plots/deleted scenes were filmed from Rogue One. For fan editors, I wonder if there is enough footage to split the film into two parts. The climax of film one being the events that happen on Eadu. The second film being all about the big moments for the Rebellion and Erso’s group attacking Scariff.
I’m not suggesting that this theatrically should have been two films or anything like that. From a fan edit POV, I wonder how different the first hour of the film was with all this alternate footage we are seeing. The stuff with Saw, the shots of Vader in front of the Death Star screen, the weirdos on Jedha. Even restoring the original plot point that the communications dish and the archives were not located in the same building and having Erso make her way across the island and battling the garrison.
I like the film the way it was cut for the theatrical release, although I would still remove the flashback scene and replace it with a crawl but I feel like there is so much that was removed and then replaced that there is almost a whole other film in there.
Maybe not full subplots, but a lot of alternate versions of the same scene:
http://collider.com/ben-mendelsohn-rogue-one-star-wars-interview/#changes
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For what it’s worth: the next day after seeing RO with my wife and step father, ANH was on the television and my wife looked at me and said, “how the hell was this guy in two different films 40 years apart??” After explaining that the Tarkin in RO was CGI, she expressed amazement because she had no idea it was artificial.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
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That might be the acid test for CGI Tarkin right there. The casual viewers I saw it with didn’t catch on either until I mentioned it.
We’re all a little too tech savvy around here. 😉
Where were you in '77?
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I saw Rogue One a second time tonight.
Much lengthier and much more in-depth review to follow.