I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
What you are talking about is called dramatic irony. It occurs when there is so much meaning and revelation in the story, that you can enjoy and take pleasure in watching it over and over again throughout the years even though you already know what will happen in the plot. Each time you entertain yourself with the story, a new layer, a new depth to one of the characters may reveal itself that you didn’t see before. This is the phenomenon that takes place when literature teachers all over the world teach classics to their students year after year, and some 20 years later they are still finding some new gem that they didn’t notice before. It’s the same phenomenon that happens when I watch Empire Strikes Back for the 1,000th time or see King Lear for the 10th time. This phenomenon only happens through the most well-written of stories, and it only happens when a very good writer, in command of his or her craft, is writing those pages.
It is a very different phenomenon from the one you were alluding to: the random plot-twist! Where the audience’s pleasure is only gratified through suspense. When the pleasure in the motion picture is only derived from answering the question “what happens next?”…it stands to reason that a viewer will enjoy the film much less each time they watch it, rather than continue to enjoy it more and more, as in the previous example of dramatic irony.
I remember saying this before in some thread about ring theory and why Star wars is secretly brillant (nothing shining can be secret IMO)
The WTF just happened plot-twist is only well executed if it is meaningful, as Vader’s reveal was, insomuch as that new revelation causes the viewer to go back and reassess the meaning of every previous scene and every previous action in a way they had not previously considered.
And still is a one-time effect the one it produces. Twists and revelations rely on secrets. Once the secret is no more, the revelation is no more, and with it goes away the enjoyment. It is even that way in Empire. Only that while the revelation is now (almost 40 years later) insignificant, it still punches us because it is important to the character.
Take Snoke in TFA. “the map is traveling with you faaaaaaaaaather…Han…Sooooolooo” [I almost expected JJA to appear in the bottom corner of the picture with a “Now you must feel surprised” sign.
Seriously. Mistery Box is total bullshit. The difference between the rational use of a resource and its abuse is the same difference you can find between a classic director like Kershner and the guy that created Lost.
Is every story or motion picture going to be that complex? No. But if it’s not, then it needs to exhibit some other cadre of strong filmmaking traits if it is to stand the test of time. What other aspects of Rogue One or The Force Awakens cause them to rise to memorable status? Do they possess visuals along the lines of a Kurosawa film? Are they edited as masterfully as the trench run sequence in ANH? There are other ways in which a film can stand the test of time.
No, OFC they don’t stand with Kurosawa. But honestly, nor does ANH or any Star Wars/Spielberg blockbuster, maybe except Schindler’s List. You can analyze why Star Wars had the success it had, and find technical reasons in editing, storytelling, etc; but elevating it to the category of cult cinema right there with say 8 1/2 just feels wrong to me. And I enjoy Star Wars a fucking lot, which is why I’m here.
But some ways it will not stand the test of time include vfx, which will date sooner rather than later, and nostalgia porn, which will be lost on people within a few years. Making a movie filled with fanservice might please you now in your short sighted and I would argue misguided desire to live in the past (as that review alluded to), but it will not reflect well on these films and will one day not reflect well on your own memories either.
I don’t know. It felt fresh to me, it’s not about a boy/girl that is tired of living in the suburbia and wants adventure and finds out he has powers and goes and makes some feats, preferently destroying a superweapon.
Do I have nostalgia? Yes. Read my review, to me Star Wars is the Empire vs the Rebels. I can take it being the republic and whoever the foes maybe.
If the opposite path to nostalgia is just fucking up the ending of Jedi by setting the exact same situation with other smell, well, I’ll take nostalgia.
Just one man’s opinion.
Sure, no puns taken!