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Robert Harris Godfather Restoration WHY cannot lucas restore the oot ?

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Anybody read up about the godfather trilogy restoration on the digital bits or on american cinematographers website?

Why can't george do the same for star wars

Comments anyone?


links

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#grain

http://www.ascmag.com/magazine_dynamic/May2008/PostFocus/page1.php

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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IIRC, Robert A. Harris has publicly stated that he has an open offer to Lucas to restore all of the original 'Star Wars' movies, provided that they are the ORIGINAL versions and not the SEs, either for free or for a substantially discounted cost. Lucas has not responded.

(I may be a bit fuzzy on the facts there, but that's how I remembered it)
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ChainsawAsh said:

IIRC, Robert A. Harris has publicly stated that he has an open offer to Lucas to restore all of the original 'Star Wars' movies, provided that they are the ORIGINAL versions and not the SEs, either for free or for a substantially discounted cost. Lucas has not responded.

(I may be a bit fuzzy on the facts there, but that's how I remembered it)


Yup, he said so on the Digital Bits.

Lucas' response to this would be: I DID restore the trilogy, it costs millions of dollars and came out on DVD in 2004. Ugh.

I'm really looking forward to the new Godfather disks though. I know they've screened them in a few theaters already, would be nice to have a slightly wider limited engagement like what happened with Blade Runner (which was the best theater experience I had since 1997). I have to assume that a Blu-Ray release is in the near future here--and that will be sweet ass.
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Close Encounters last year, the Godfather this year. Can our favorite trilogy be far behind?
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ChainsawAsh said:

I DID restore the trilogy, it costs millions of dollars and came out on DVD in 2004. Ugh.


Well, if he worded it exactly like that, you really couldn't fault him for anything. He DID restore the OT, just not the version you guys wanted.
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Johnboy3434 said:

zombie84 said:

I DID restore the trilogy, it costs millions of dollars and came out on DVD in 2004. Ugh.


Well, if he worded it exactly like that, you really couldn't fault him for anything. He DID restore the OT, just not the version you guys wanted.


Its not a restoration, its an alteration. In the process of altering it, some of the original elements were refurbished. And yeah, we can fault him for mincing words with these semantic games--any idiot could see we're talking about a restoration of an unaltered original and not some CGI-filled re-edit.
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Restoration usually implies that great care is taken during the process to ensure that the final product is of high quality. Instead, we got poor color timing, screwed up soundtracks, and a host of other problems due to a rush job.

I'd be no more excited about a Blu-ray release of the 2004 versions than I was in 2004 when the DVDs came out.
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Bah, I hope our favorite trilogy isn't far behind. If Lucas could do it for free, maybe he'd have a change o heart. Who knows?
/is an optimist.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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The funny thing is, Paramount wouldn't pay for the Godfather restoration. They are such douchebags that STEVEN SPIELBERG had to pay for it. Maybe he'll go ahead and donate the "save the OOT" cause.
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zombie84 said:

The funny thing is, Paramount wouldn't pay for the Godfather restoration. They are such douchebags that STEVEN SPIELBERG had to pay for it. Maybe he'll go ahead and donate the "save the OOT" cause.

Naw, Spieldberg and George are friends. In fact, Speildberg won't touch it; he thinks it's Lucas' "baby;"said it himself when he was asked to direct Episode 1.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I was going over the wiki entry just now, and now I'm wondering if they won't wait until even later than the premiere of the live-action series to do the 3D re-releases. Apparently McCallum said that they're waiting until the technology is cheap enough to widely implement.

Then again, 2010 is a long ways away. If Cameron plans on having enough 3D theaters to release Avatar in by December of 2009, I would think Lucasfilm would use that as an opportunity to attach a trailer announcing "coming in 2010, the 3D re-releases of the Star Wars movies."

Obviously I wasn't thinking that we'd get the blu-ray until the movies hit theaters again. I only meant that the 3D-re-release-followed-by-a-blu-ray-release-a-few-months-later hopefully isn't more than another two or three years away. That's only really going on the pattern that these movies followed on dvd:

Close Encounters, 2001
Godfather, 2001
Star Wars Trilogy, 2004

Now we have:

Close Encounters, 2007
Godfather, hopefully by the end of this year
Star Wars (with everything we want): hopefully by the time the live-action series hits.

zombie84 said:

Lucas' response to this would be: I DID restore the trilogy, it costs millions of dollars and came out on DVD in 2004. Ugh.


Yea but that's the thing. We're not asking for him to spend millions of dollars. In fact, as it's been pointed out, there's a professional willing to do it for free!!!!

Look at what happened with Blade Runner. The final version is the one that got the 4K mastering and was cleaned up frame by frame to within an inch of its life. By comparison, the remastering they did on the older versions is nothing, BUT AT LEAST THEY REMASTERED THEM.

That's the truly messed up thing about this situation. All it would really cost Lucas at the end of the day is the added price of including an extra disc in the packaging. That's why I'm not TOTALLY putting it out of the realm of possibility that he'll give us the simple thing we're asking for. Because, as I've said, blu-ray isn't the same ballpark as dvd. If we're already getting The Godfather this year, and when we remember that Lucas only really held off on the OT on dvd because he wanted to wait until Episode III had been released (2001 was also the year that a Star Wars movie hit dvd for the first time), I can't imagine the next release being more than a couple years away.
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bkev said:


Naw, Spieldberg and George are friends. In fact, Speildberg won't touch it; he thinks it's Lucas' "baby;"said it himself when he was asked to direct Episode 1.


Spielberg might have directed Phantom Menace? Wow...that could have been a completely different story. At least the action scenes would have some flair...

As for the Godfather restoration, I can't wait to see them. Europe gets them in a few weeks, but the US doesn't get them until September. That better mean a theatrical release.

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Fang Zei said:

Close Encounters last year, the Godfather this year. Can our favorite trilogy be far behind?
I dunno about you but MY favourite trilogy is Indiana Jones, not Star Wars. Star Wars is of course a sextette and if one is talking about the "OOT", might as well use seamless branching to satisfy everyone.
OH NOES! MY OOT IS RUINED! Damn whiny crybabies.
Everyone forgets WILLOW, Tucker: The Man and His Dream and some other LucasFilm Ltd. productions. Speaking of Willow, has anyone read the book trilogy of which Lucas would've done on film if it had made more money? I believe it was Chris Claremont and George who co-wrote them. Shadow series or something.
Hey, my preference is actually more towards Indiana Jones if I had to choose between the two if I'm buying something to add to my collection.
There're also more films older than the OT or whatever which are more deserving of a full restoration. Especially classic films which could be lost forever if they aren't.
I for one am eager to see the 4K resolution restored Godfather Trilogy. And when Spielberg touched up Indiana Jones, it was more due to slight technical errors compared to the "Special Editions". Why not be like Ridley Scott, James Cameron and other directors who have seamless branching so they let the consumer which version of the film to watch? Of course then people would STILL bitch and moan on this forum, "Oh! It's not how I remembered it!". Looking at the release history for Star Wars, there've been multiple audio tracks. Six-track magnetic, two-track optical and such with different elements. Hell, it was even a low-budget feature.
Honestly, Robert Wise had the more perfect idea for his The Director's Edition for Star Trek: The Motion Picture. His film was unfinished since he was on a deadline. He made the effects like they would have at the time they were originally making it. Nothing sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the Special Editions. The Director's Edition is practically seamless as it incorporates the original intended effects if the filmmakers were given more leeway. Yes, it would be nice to have the rushed Theatrical Cut, Special Longer Version and even a TV edit to go alongside the two-disc The Director's Edition DVD.
Compared to Star Wars and Star Trek, the former has more fantasy elements and the latter of course more science fictiony type ones. For an adventure a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, it's Star Wars. For a more Earth based/centric series, it's Star Trek. So it all depends on what type of movie I wanna watch. Of course Star Trek has a dozen feature films with literally hundreds of hours of screentime compared to Star Wars.
Speaking of Star Trek, it'd be nice if the feature films were fully restored in 4K resolution with all film grain and all intact. I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
Oh, Lucas will restore the OOT, when he damn well feels like it. Ever heard of marketing demand and consumer readiness? When Blu-ray is more available in peoples homes, maybe he'll release all the damn versions of Star Wars for you grubby elitish snobby fans. Just be happy with what you're with and be more optimistic. All this pessimism is actually very tedious. Yes, it's in the cool to bash Lucas no matter what he does! he seems like an okay guy to me but with a far too overbearing fanbase.
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Spoken like a man without a grasp of the situation...
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I think you're overlooking one very important factor there pardner - Indiana Jones is a quadrilogy.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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"I think you're overlooking one very important factor there pardner - Indiana Jones is a quadrilogy."

that depends on whether the movie is good and whether the fans accept it as canon. if it sucks we will pretend does not exist like the prequels and the special editions.

Sure george and steven can say its canon until they are red in the face but if it does not fit the first trilogy its complete garbage and a cash in.


really makes me wish that the script was written by larry kasden who retired from screenwriting after return of the jedi and body heat.

his 300 page script for raiders is actually better than the filmed movie and more serious and less campy, it is up their with the dialogue of casablanca. it had the mine cart sequence in it and everything, that was of course saved for temple of doom.

i often dream of how great return of the jedi would have been had Gary Kurtz stayed on as producer, if it was directed by Kershner and written by Kasden rather than just add quick touch up to george's script.

It could have been serious and entertaining in the same way as Empire Strikes Back, which George says is the failure of the series.

the six movie saga story of darth vader is revisionist history and a lie. it was always the adventures of Luke Skywalker as far back as the early script where it was the adventures of Luke starkiller. it was intended to be at first 12 then 9 film series. six of the films would have starred the middle trilogies cast. since their salaries must have gotten bigger on return of the jedi i can see why lucas decided to get a new cast and do the earlier episodes without mark hamill.

Besides the fact that the films are all fiction and i am very aware of the fact, Luke Skywalker was a better hero to cheer on, and a better role model for children unlike a mass murdering killer of younglings, and whiny emo bitch like hayden's anakin.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Indy is not a saga, its just an episodic thing, you can ignore any of the films. Some people don't like Temple of Doom and just don't watch it, for example.
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skyjedi2005 said:

that depends on whether the movie is good and whether the fans accept it as canon. if it sucks we will pretend does not exist like the prequels and the special editions.


I don't know what the rules are in your world, but the fans have absolutely no say in what is or is not canon. That is the sole right of whoever owns the franchise. The PT and SE are canon, and have been since they were first released. Nothing we say can change that. Feel free to bitch about it (we all do, eventually), but first realize that you are utterly powerless.
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Canon depends entirely on who's watching. My canon for Star Wars is the 77, 80, and 83 OT and the Thrawn trilogy of novels by Timothy Zahn. Nothing else. I might enjoy fan edits and such, but they aren't in my canon.

Your canon might be the PT, SE and entire EU. Someone else's might be PT and OOT.

It depends on how you look at it. The creators might have their own canon, but you *can* choose to ignore it if you wish.

To get this BACK ON TOPIC:

Has anyone gotten the new 'Lawrence of Arabia' 2-disc CE? Is it the inferior transfer from the old LE release, or the Superbit transfer supervised by Robert A. Harris, or a new one entirely? And when the hell will we get a Blu-Ray of this?
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skyjedi2005 said:

his 300 page script for raiders is actually better than the filmed movie and more serious and less campy, it is up their with the dialogue of casablanca. it had the mine cart sequence in it and everything, that was of course saved for temple of doom.


That's definitely a matter of opinion. Casablanca was a great film for its time, but it's not Indiana Jones. I think if Indy had been like that, it would not have done nearly as well as it did.

skyjedi2005 said:

the six movie saga story of darth vader is revisionist history and a lie. it was always the adventures of Luke Skywalker as far back as the early script where it was the adventures of Luke starkiller. it was intended to be at first 12 then 9 film series. six of the films would have starred the middle trilogies cast. since their salaries must have gotten bigger on return of the jedi i can see why lucas decided to get a new cast and do the earlier episodes without mark hamill.


Or maybe it's just because those characters were to old to play the right parts. Since they were all under contract for 3 films, I doubt their salaries got bigger. There were no new contracts, so they were being paid the same amount as they already agreed to.

skyjedi2005 said:

Besides the fact that the films are all fiction and i am very aware of the fact, Luke Skywalker was a better hero to cheer on, and a better role model for children unlike a mass murdering killer of younglings, and whiny emo bitch like hayden's anakin.


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ChainsawAsh said:

To get this BACK ON TOPIC:

Has anyone gotten the new 'Lawrence of Arabia' 2-disc CE? Is it the inferior transfer from the old LE release, or the Superbit transfer supervised by Robert A. Harris, or a new one entirely? And when the hell will we get a Blu-Ray of this?
No idea if the new Lawrence of Arabia uses the same transfer as the Superbit transfer supervised by RAH or what. Looked on DVDCompare.net Didn't this also receive a Roadshow release or was it at a time when the Roadshows were dying down? I'd love LoA on BD, including Bridge on the River Kwai, The Great Escape, The Man with No Name Trilogy, Once Upon a Time in the West, The Magnificent Seven, DJANGO and other period films from around the same time on BD. Even CHARADE would be excellent in High Definition. Of course it'd be a Criterion release on BD.
In fact, speaking of LucasFilm Ltd. properties, I'd even enjoy watching WILLOW in HD (1080p of course) with all the extras from the Special Edition release. EXCEPT/INCLUDING a mandate for commentary from Ron Howard and possibly Val Kilmer, way more documentaries, image galleries including concept art from Jean "Moebius" Girard (sp?) and more.

EDIT: Speaking of films released around the time of Casablanca... Are there anyone besides me who considers GUNGA DIN a precursor to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? Just it's set a hundred years or so before ToD. In fact both films compliment each other. What I enjoy most about Indiana Jones is the great adventures. Whether it be inspired from 1930's Republic cliffhanger serials, the Jim Grim novels, 1950's science fiction B-films, Ray Harryhousen, pulp stories and more. Hell, I'm even considering reinstalling my CD-ROM version of Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on my PC, of course playing it via ScummVM, and actually trying the other paths instead of the team one.
Speaking of Fate of Atlantis, if a film were actually made when the game was released in 1992, which actress from said timeframe could've portrayed Sophia Hapgood? Of course she'd need to be a natural auburn redhead or thereabouts. She was also in Infernal Machine but I never actually passed it without downloading saves for the start of each level. Emperor's Tomb was alright, except I bloody hate jumping puzzles!
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The info i found online states it is simply a cheaper repacking of the previous two disc release.

This coming from htf, cannot find the links, and amazon.com reviews.

So the superbit is out of print and has not been re-issued in this set. supposedly this set also lacks the dts sound.

The rumored new transfer for blu ray will probably just go straight to blu and not stop on standard dvd along the way. I cannot find any info if the blu ray transfer is supervised by harris or not.

Reading reviews of the earlier dvd releases it appears the dvd's are not as good as the restored 70mm prints that were shown in theaters. Additionally one reviewer on amazon states the U.S. dvd releases have digital grain removal added to them not on the european dvd release and not authorised by robert harris.

That really has to suck to get a proper release you have to deal with pal speedup to get Robert Harris transfer untouched.

unless pal is considered the proper way to watch a david lean film since he was european.

kind of how some purists say the same about kubrick films.


not every film is supposed to be entirely clean and new looking some films are shot to look that way stylistically like american graffiti and thx 1138 being shot on 16mm film because the anamorphic process was cheaper to reproduce as well as gave the films a more documentary style feel. THX 1138 was shot on super 16 according to lucas in an interview with lawrence sturhann.


the theatrical cuts of such films do not exist on dvd however or unaltered.

can you believe G.L. actually wrecked american graffiti and thx by adding cgi to them?

only being able to enjoy theatrical cuts of films in 4:3 letterbox on laserdisc that is George's legacy, and the bonus disc on 2006 is the same as the 1993 definitive collection. the only difference i noticed between my laserdisc and dvd is apparent false sharpening being applied to the picture, because dvnr was used to conceal dirt and scratches and removed fine detail.

Not exaxtly being definitive even then. i have a laserscan magazine where the reviewer bashes the picture by saying it looks scratched and washed out as well as overly dvnr, only positive review was on the remastered sound even the supplements got poor reviews, the guy claimed the trailers did not look remastered and as though they were recorded off a tv screen with a camera bootleg style.

Since star wars was shot on anamorphic lenses with a very wide negative vistavision i hardly count the 2006 release close to the original theatrical presentations. unless 4:3 letterbox video is to be compared to 35mm film that 2k dlp cannot even rival as yet.

which brings me to the south park free hat episode as commentary on walkie talkies in e.t. and greedo shooting first, wtf? have George and steven lost their frickin minds?

i'm still pissed the theatrical version of close encounters is only included in the expensive box set, kind of like when e.t. was released. sure later on speilberg changed his mind or saw dollar signs and alllowed it to be released separtely after the sixty dollar box set.

i think the original cut of e.t. might even be anamorphic on dvd, but it sure as hell is not remastered.

it is pretty goddamn bizarre that it is left up to fans to cobble together a restored theatrical release by using both dvd's as sources.

Believe it or not special editions of the original indiana jones trilogy were actually considered, i shudder to think what kind of phony cgi fakery might have been added to ruin the movies.

"I DID restore the trilogy, it costs millions of dollars and came out on DVD in 2004"
butcher maybe, restore no.

sure bottom bin pornos can be restored and remastered but not the most influential film series in hollywood history that changed the ways films were made and marketed.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Regarding the new Lawrence of Arabia:

You will be pleased to know it has the CORRECT Superbit transfer on disk 1, plus all the original bonus disk extras. So its finally the way it should be. Unfortunately I already bought the Superbit long ago and I'm not going to buy something twice when it should have been done in the first placce--though I should commend Columbia for rectifying things, unlike many other companies.

As for the original Raiders script--how can you say "thats not Indy"? That IS Indy! Rather, it was the sequels that went off. Raiders of the Lost Ark--much like the original Star Wars--is only VAGUELY like the serials, its more like a Humphry Bogart adventure for most of its running time, like Treasure of Sierra Madre and Casablanca, and that was certainly what Lawrence Kasdan was trying to create. Spielberg and Lucas made things faster and more action oriented in the later sections but the film is still faithful to Kasdan's original conception. By the time we got to Last Crusade it had drifted and evolved into its own thing.
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zombie84 said:


By the time we got to Last Crusade it had drifted and evolved into its own thing.


A somewhat worse thing I think. Though, in my opinion, even Raiders is rather superficial (particularly when you get to the big Nazi stuff at the end).

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005