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Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY] — Page 2

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The only complaint I’d have with the inclusion of the line from rebels is the part that says “I destroyed him”. Within the context of the movie, and having watched ObiWan basically defeat and humilliate Vader only 10 minutes before, that part of the line sounds as Anakin rationalizing and making up for his failure in his mind.

But answering Anakin Skywalker was weak alone isn’t complete neither.

I remember there was a video made by TheCutter where he used another line that, when asked “anakin, can you hear me” went more or less like “that name no longer has any meaning for me. Now I know the power of the dark side” (and started crushing things). Perhaps if you added “anakin skywalker was weak” instead of the line borrowed from ROTJ could preserve the meaning and loose the pretension of Vader having the psicological structures of a weak person (esencially saying he won when he clearly lost).

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 (Edited)

NFBisms said:

This is a big one, thanks to ImperialFighter for the suggestion in a private topic, but I think I’m doing away with the Darth Vader scream of anguish, improved LoE version or not. The Vader awakens sequence is very different now, and I used an idea I got from a re-edit of the scene on Vimeo that I saw a few months ago but can’t seem to find anymore. But basically, it goes:

P: Anakin. Can you hear me?

DV: … Anakin Skywalker was weak… I destroyed him.

Using Star Wars Rebels audio. I just think it goes by too fast and is abrupt, so I’d really like to hear if people want it in, or suggestions and ideas on how to improve it.

Just to clarify for everyone following this thread, the thing I suggested was the complete removal of the awkward ‘breaking free/Emperor grinning/Vader scream’ footage at the end of the overall Vader/Emperor scene…no matter what! 😃

(and just for fun, I threw in a couple of alternative ideas of how I’d ideally do that)

I didn’t suggest the replacement dialogue as originally conceived by ForceGhostRecon however, but am certainly pleased to hear that the awkward Vader footage seems to be ruled out now.

@ NFBisms - Although I thought it sounded pretty good in FGR’s Vimeo clip, I’m not sure if you’re definately gonna keep that replacement dialogue or not - so I’ve PM’d you another alternative solution to consider IF you decide you don’t wish the characters to repeat the same lines after all.

(by the way, I always loved that ‘Final Dual’ clip by Bob Garcia which Mithrandir posted - not just for it’s terrific ‘red on blue’ saber action, but also for the fact that Anakin doesn’t petulantly yell “I HATE YOU!” at Obi-wan - due to that alone, I agree that it’s one of the better edited resolutions to that duel that I’ve seen)

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Mithrandir said:

The only complaint I’d have with the inclusion of the line from rebels is the part that says “I destroyed him”. Within the context of the movie, and having watched ObiWan basically defeat and humilliate Vader only 10 minutes before, that part of the line sounds as Anakin rationalizing and making up for his failure in his mind.

But answering Anakin Skywalker was weak alone isn’t complete neither.

I remember there was a video made by TheCutter where he used another line that, when asked “anakin, can you hear me” went more or less like “that name no longer has any meaning for me. Now I know the power of the dark side” (and started crushing things). Perhaps if you added “anakin skywalker was weak” instead of the line borrowed from ROTJ could preserve the meaning and loose the pretension of Vader having the psicological structures of a weak person (esencially saying he won when he clearly lost).

But that’s what narcissists do… they rationalize their failures… live in alternate reality. They manipulate the truth… which I feel gives Vader so much depth as a character. Just my opinion… and I actually edited a version usind The Cutter’s line as well, as an alternative - check it out here https://vimeo.com/161839414

I think there are multiple ways to execute this scene without having to use the “Frankenstein breaking free” or the infamous ‘nooooooooo’ - my edits were just meant to show some possibilities given the material we have to work with. If they help or influence anyone’s edit, sounds great to me!

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Alright, sorry to anyone who PM’d me since Thursday morning for the preview edit, it took longer for me to get back home than I expected on Thursday night, and I finally have free time tonight and for the weekend, so I should be sending it out within the next hour or so.

So things that are changing or subject to change from the cut people will be seeing:

  • The shots used in the first council meeting; there is one that goes by too fast, and I think excising or rearranging some would work to help it flow better.
  • Reinstate “I’m on your side, I didn’t want to put you in this situation.” Going for the subtlety didn’t work in my favor imo.
  • the Darth Vader awakens scene is definitely going to be messed with some more.

And of course, any other suggestions anyone might have. I’m super open to feedback.

I’ll work on responding to what I missed in this thread soon after.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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Just out of curiosity (and maybe it’ll help people come up with suggestions) why did you decide not to include Hal’s redone Vader Awakens scene? Did you not like how the scream sounded, was it not how you think he should’ve reacted, or something else?

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^If I’m being completely honest, it’s because I got so many PM’s telling me to get rid of it lol.

But I at least tried it out, and found that it better fit the tragic angle for Vader to not give a shit about “Anakin Skywalker” anymore when he was doing everything for himself and Padme in the rest of the cut. I’m not 100% onboard with the idea ofc, I still want to use Hal’s version, especially for the general seamlessness of it, but the current test iteration uses ForceGhostRecon’s Rebels dialogue bit. (Thank you so much btw!) I want to see what most people think is the best way to do that scene, and hopefully I can finalize it.

So I sent out the links to anyone who asked.

I’ve already gotten feedback, which is really nice, so here are a few more things changing or subject to change from what people have already seen:

  • “General Skywalker” is said three times now, not just once by Grevious. Extra times by the firefighter guy who takes in half of the Invisible Hand in its crash landing, and Bail Organa before he has some small talk with Anakin.
  • “I have no excuse” after “I was held up” is removed. No student!Anakin explaining tardiness.
  • “He’s right. It’s a system we cannot afford to lose.” removed.
  • This is contrary to a few opinions I’ve gotten, but also not to others: Reinstatement of Obi Wan’s “I’m on your side Anakin…” I felt being too subtle in a movie like this doesn’t help when you want to hammer in a specific idea.
  • Dialogue trimming to be less rigid, somehow.
  • Move nightmare convo to after sunset scene.
  • In Palpatine vs the Jedi, there are no close up reaction shots to their being sliced or stabbed along with their screams. It goes by faster (taken by surprise) and looks less silly.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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 (Edited)

These are some mock-ups I did on how to handle that scene;

A much more subtle approach

I think that one’s pretty chilling and cool, but the audience misses out on Vader’s reaction to Padme’s death.

This one includes Vader’s reaction, but uses a different scream

Right now I’m downloading the Anti-Cheese edits to see how Jeremy handles the scene, I’ll try to update with a clip of it once it’s downloaded.

EDIT:

Another alternate scream from the man behind the Anti-Cheese Edits

From the Anti-Cheese Edit’s official release, no scream at all. Well, maybe a minor scream but it’s mostly drowned out by the building crumbling.

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This looks really interesting.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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NFBisms said:

I’m not 100% onboard with the idea ofc, I still want to use Hal’s version, especially for the general seamlessness of it, but the current test iteration uses ForceGhostRecon’s Rebels dialogue bit. (Thank you so much btw!) I want to see what most people think is the best way to do that scene, and hopefully I can finalize it.

NFBisms, this sounds like you are still quite torn about losing the ‘Vader breaking free/anguished yell’ portion of that scene.

While I was one of those who suggested you remove that bit of footage altogether…I can only equally urge you to include it, if you REALLY prefer to - there’s so many moments throughout this movie that a lot of us differ on, it’s not as if everyone is going to agree with every change you make anyway. So considering the effort that goes into these things, I strongly recommend that you include whatever makes you yourself happiest to watch, first and foremost.

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NFBisms said:

There’s much conflict within me. I might need to turn to the dark side.

…and if you really can’t decide, you could always toss a ‘chance cube’… 😉

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 (Edited)

So I’ve decided. xP

This is the “New Canon Cut”, and not a super radical edit of RotS. I’ve decided to adhere to my original conservatism in regards to editing the movie. I’m making it fit cohesively in the post-Disney consistent canon, but not trying to change what “happened.” (Especially since the Vader scene is flashed back to in the Marvel Darth Vader comics) It’s a reinterpretation of the same events, as they were referenced in the OT/Rebels/comics, and was the trajectory foreshadowed in TCW. The main differences were always just going to be in how Anakin is portrayed, toning down the cringe/cheesiness, and bearing down on a specific interpretation of the character relationships. So the LoE/Russian dub scream is still in. As soon as I fell into that rabbit hole, I lost sight of what I was originally going for. This is for Clone Wars/canon fans who are tired of suspending their disbelief about the connectivity of all the media.

I’ve made some more changes:

  • I added a casual “Hey” from Anakin to Obi Wan in the establishing shot as he enters the War Room. (From Jumper, that movie Hayden was in where he teleports and fights Sam Jackson) He’s even slightly out of breath like his next lines. I found that the movie kind of over-compartmentalizes the characterizations in that, for the most part, the characters seem to only be allowed to demonstrate one aspect of their personalities per scene. By adding a casual “Hey”, a not-mopey more TCW Anakin from the scene prior is allowed to come through, instead of him already having a grim demeanor for the next several scenes. Having gotten rid of the “excuses” line here too, Obi Wan and Anakin do come off more as friends again instead of their relationship alternating scene to scene as either “bros” or “disagreeing about something.” There’s more of a smooth transition here from that to that.

  • I added dialogue from the “Changes to the Constitution” deleted scene in the establishing shots before Palpatine asks “Do you trust me Anakin?” in the next scene. Anakin brings forward to Palpatine that the jedi council isn’t a huge fan of Palpatine continuing to gain power, referencing the “unusual/uneasy feelings” conversation he just had with Obi Wan. It makes him less of Palpatine’s bitch. I already kind of “solved” how young and immature Anakin felt in relation to the Jedi by making them refer to and treat him more like an adult, so now I’m working my way through his relationship with Palpatine. He has to be manipulated, but not like a clueless child. Also, it was always awkward to me how the transition was just into Anakin and Palpatine walking in silence for a good several seconds.

  • Establishing shot into Padme’s apartment at sunset after Yoda departing for Kashyyyk, now has a Hayden Christensen chuckle. I mean, you can see Anakin/Padme being playful, with Anakin messing with Padme’s pregnant belly in the establishing shot, and then a smile just fading into a frown when we cut into the closer shot, so I thought why not? Anything more to humanize the characters.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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The “hey” and chuckle both sound like great ideas. I can imagine showing L8wrtr’s TPM (to include the necklace), my AOTC, and your ROTS to an audience that might not be as receptive to Padme surviving the trilogy and might like to see more than one person’s take. In other words, this will be a great alternative edit to my own Ep3 for those who liked it aside from the ending, of which I’ve heard from many.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Have you decided if you’re gonna add a chuckle to the “roger roger” scene? I tried it out using Obi-Wan’s chuckle from the AOTC Elevator scene and I thought it worked pretty well save for the quiet music in the background.

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This seems like a really interesting edit. I have been slowly working through editing the prequels myself and I may use some of your ideas for my edit. I would be interested in checking it out! Go ahead and hit me with and unsolicited PM 😀

“You can’t polish a turd. But you can shape it to look like candy.”

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NFBisms said:

So I’ve decided. xP

This is the “New Canon Cut”, and not a super radical edit of RotS. I’ve decided to adhere to my original conservatism in regards to editing the movie. I’m making it fit cohesively in the post-Disney consistent canon, but not trying to change what “happened.” (Especially since the Vader scene is flashed back to in the Marvel Darth Vader comics) It’s a reinterpretation of the same events, as they were referenced in the OT/Rebels/comics, and was the trajectory foreshadowed in TCW. The main differences were always just going to be in how Anakin is portrayed, toning down the cringe/cheesiness, and bearing down on a specific interpretation of the character relationships. So the LoE/Russian dub scream is still in. As soon as I fell into that rabbit hole, I lost sight of what I was originally going for. This is for Clone Wars/canon fans who are tired of suspending their disbelief about the connectivity of all the media.

While I prefer a more severe re-edit of the Vader/Emperor scene myself, I’m glad you’ve decided to stick to your own original intention for it in the end - I can see now how it’s FULLER inclusion better matches your original aim overall, and I’m sure that your version will appeal to quite a few ‘Clone Wars/canon fans’, as you say.

I’m mostly interested in seeing how your amended portrayal of Anakin’s character comes across in this, and will certainly look forward to checking it out eventually.

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Jeebus said:

These are some mock-ups I did on how to handle that scene;

A much more subtle approach

I think that one’s pretty chilling and cool, but the audience misses out on Vader’s reaction to Padme’s death.

This one includes Vader’s reaction, but uses a different scream

Right now I’m downloading the Anti-Cheese edits to see how Jeremy handles the scene, I’ll try to update with a clip of it once it’s downloaded.

EDIT:

Another alternate scream from the man behind the Anti-Cheese Edits

From the Anti-Cheese Edit’s official release, no scream at all. Well, maybe a minor scream but it’s mostly drowned out by the building crumbling.

Soooooo am I the only one who laughed when they heard that scream? lol cringe-worthy.

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ForceGhostRecon said:

Jeebus said:

These are some mock-ups I did on how to handle that scene;

A much more subtle approach

I think that one’s pretty chilling and cool, but the audience misses out on Vader’s reaction to Padme’s death.

This one includes Vader’s reaction, but uses a different scream

Right now I’m downloading the Anti-Cheese edits to see how Jeremy handles the scene, I’ll try to update with a clip of it once it’s downloaded.

EDIT:

Another alternate scream from the man behind the Anti-Cheese Edits

From the Anti-Cheese Edit’s official release, no scream at all. Well, maybe a minor scream but it’s mostly drowned out by the building crumbling.

Soooooo am I the only one who laughed when they heard that scream?

No.

lol cringe-worthy.

gag

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NFBismsDate if your doing this kind of edit why not have phantom menace and aotc match up with this or do you have fan edit recommendations for those?

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I guess it’s because I don’t … care(?)… that much about AoTC or TPM? idk I mean, yeah, they needed fixing, but I don’t have specific ideas about how to do that myself that would be different from what others have done. And to be honest, the parts of the story they tell don’t seem too important to me.

RoTS is where we see Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader. We’ve heard about this in the OT, Obi-Wan’s good friend - a hero - is seduced to the dark side to become the villain - a cold and methodical enforcer of the Empire’s might. I realize Revenge of the Sith is the third part of a trilogy, and by just working on it alone, I’m not saying that my cut could stand alone at all - but I think that you could honestly watch any version of the previous two, fanedit or original, and get what I’m going for here. (problems with the A/P necklace aside)

I didn’t feel like I was obligated to “match” anything up; if Anakin is notably more mature in my RoTS than he is in whatever edit of the first two you watch, that’s because it’s implied that he’s grown to this new point. Like I said, I’m not trying to rewrite canon. Just trying to make the canon consistent; and having a distinctly teenage Anakin in AoTC and an adult one in RotS doesn’t break that imo.

I don’t feel like I explained it that well, but if you really want fanedit recs to fit w/ this, Hal’s idea a few posts up sounds good.

I think I’m getting close to finishing or forcing myself to stop tweaking. I’ll try to get it on Fanedit once I’m on the final visual/color grading part of the edit. A few more edit ideas I’ve been tinkering with:

  • Anakin’s whine-screams during his fight scenes, I’ve tried as much as possible to take out. He just sounds so strained and whiny - like he’s crying. I might replace with some manlier or even Matt Lanter grunts, but probably not.

  • Instead of Palps telling Anakin, “I think they will… They need you. More than you know…” I took dialogue from the Changes to the Constitution deleted scene and replaced it with “I think they will… You fought many battles the jedi council thought were lost… and you saved my life…” This further characterizes Anakin as a very competent war hero (if the actions in the opening and triple dropping of his “general” rank before wasn’t enough) and not as blindly manipulated by Palpatine. By him citing valid reasons for Anakin to be considered a master, it tells the audience that maybe he does deserve to be a master, at least more than the absolutely nothing to show that he might in the original. It makes Anakin less angry, entitled, and jealous, and more just angry, confused and disappointed. (Especially as I’ve toned down his whining across the board).

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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“His fate will be the same as ours” -is going to be removed. Basically doesn’t mean anything and by Anakin not even engaging in a discussion of whether or not to leave his friend, that friendship might be slightly strengthened? Besides, I like the comedic timing of the next time we see them, Anakin just has Obi Wan slung over his shoulder.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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NFBisms said:

“His fate will be the same as ours” -is going to be removed. Basically doesn’t mean anything and by Anakin not even engaging in a discussion of whether or not to leave his friend, that friendship might be slightly strengthened? Besides, I like the comedic timing of the next time we see them, Anakin just has Obi Wan slung over his shoulder.

Good change, I definitely agree with the “doesn’t mean anything” bit. I’ve often wondered what exactly it meant, myself. I’d have to see how the comedic timing works in practice, but it sounds pretty funny.

Also, I love your new avatar, the GIF that it comes from is super cool.

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Jeebus said:

NFBisms said:

“His fate will be the same as ours” -is going to be removed. Basically doesn’t mean anything and by Anakin not even engaging in a discussion of whether or not to leave his friend, that friendship might be slightly strengthened? Besides, I like the comedic timing of the next time we see them, Anakin just has Obi Wan slung over his shoulder.

Good change, I definitely agree with the “doesn’t mean anything” bit. I’ve often wondered what exactly it meant, myself.

Not defending the line, but isn’t it obvious? They’re all going to survive or die together, rather than being split up.

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I guess I just didn’t see how it meant anything as a counterargument to “Leave him, or we’ll never make it.” The line’s meaning is clear, sure, but that’s just it. It comes off as an awkwardly placed true declarative statement. It doesn’t mean anything in that way, I guess. Still getting rid of it.

“We’re going to survive or die together” would probably have been a better line tbh.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc