Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY] — Page 13

Aww thanks : )

Since in this version Padme brings Obi-Wan rather than sneaking onto Padme’s ship without her knowing, I edited the scene of their conversation so it ends sooner and leaves its conclusion open-ended.

https://streamable.com/bjs39

This sounds fantastic, is there a HD version being done?

Love the changelist. Moving Kashyyyk earlier is a fun idea and it does make ‘the droid attack on the Wookiees’ less left field. It’s a shame there’s so little appropriate material in the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan pre-fight conversation that you have to resort to videogame lines. I wonder if Lucas filmed anything else or if he always had their whole argument mostly focused on politics. This script (I don’t know if it’s legit) has some fun extra dialogue during their fight:

ANAKIN: Don’t make me destroy you, Master. You’re no match for the dark side.
OBI-WAN: I’ve heard that before, Anakin . . . but I never thought I’d hear it from you.

It’s not great, is it?

OBI-WAN: (continuing) The flaw of power is arrogance.
ANAKIN: You hesitate . . . the flaw of compassion.

OBI-WAN: I have failed you, Anakin. I was never able to teach you to think.
ANAKIN: I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over . . .
OBI-WAN: From the Sith!!! Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil.
ANAKIN: From the Jedi point of view! From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
OBI-WAN: Well, then you are lost!
ANAKIN: This is the end for you, My Master. I wish it were otherwise.

But the only lines before the fight are these, which I’m glad were cut:

ANAKIN: Is Obi-Wan going to protect you? He can’t … he can’t help you. He’s not strong enough.

and

ANAKIN: What have you and she been up to?

Sometimes I consider attempting to find a really good voice actor who can do a good Hayden impersonation…

NFBisms said:

I’ll try to respond to everyone, especially you Rogue, but for now that should give people a clearer idea of what I’m going for.

No rush, NFB! I think your reasoning for avoiding the “dark side corruption angle”, as well as keeping the Padmé scenes in the proper order, make total sense. Sorry I’m not providing much help!

And the cultist sounds really solid. I think the biggest to me, that I think you should consider, is to be picky about which lines from outside sources you use. Like I mentioned, I think the video game lines for Obi could pass, especially with some adjustments, but I don’t think any of the outside source lines for Anakin in that scene really fit.

Doing a great job man!

NFBisms said:

snooker that’s really awesome, I’d love to be able to use it for this! I’m surprised no one has really tried something like this for Padme yet, her lack of agency in RotS is generally accepted as one of its biggest issues. This subtle thing goes a pretty long way in giving it back.

Here’s a list of changes:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUZSjG8QYeL7foDqdGZBMv0Otmc-40WAd1lCK2CCj5M/edit?usp=sharing

I’ll try to respond to everyone, especially you Rogue, but for now that should give people a clearer idea of what I’m going for.

You might want to hold off moving some scenes until series 7 of TCW has finished as it overlaps with RotS and considering how well this edit joins the two together moving scenes like the ‘I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi’ scene might make the flow a little jankey.

NFBisms said:

Here’s another try at the Mustafar scene using snooker’s new clip and a few audio adjustments/line changes:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C4MQQtYfCKoR4zNnwuvyJeT11dCBBvKR/view?usp=sharing

The addition of Snooker’s Padmé stuff and your additional dialogue really help to make it feel less sudden.
For myself, I’m not overly concerned about the video game dialogue not fitting perfectly (I think the pitch of Anakin’s could be turned up a bit) because I think the lines themselves are possibly better for conveying betrayal better than the original or the stunted, choppy dialogue by cutting but not replacing.

MasterSolo said:

I like the new padme clip. After watching this version several times and thinking about it more I think after “You turned her against me!”, the scene should play the same as the theatrical, except for “Only a sith…”. It cuts too many good lines that I enjoy, like: “you have done that yourself!" and “for democracy!"

I also miss ‘you have done that yourself’, even towards the end of TCW Obi-Wan was still blind to the problems Anakin saw in the Republic and Jedi Order (he voted against Ashoka’s exile but didn’t try prevent the trial in the first place) and he still sees Anakin as making the wrong choice and Padmé as making the right one (though I don’t think he knows about her little loyalist club yet) rather than Anakin’s view just being an extreme reaction to a legitimate concern about the Republic.

MasterSolo said:

Also, sorry if you explained it somewhere and I didn’t see it, but can you explain why you cut the killing younglings reference?

I think the Nightfall scene was cut out making it ambiguous to what Anakin (or Vader) did in the Temple. Also, ‘younglings’ is a silly word which undercuts the drama. I don’t even know why Padmé says it in the official version rather than just saying ‘children’, I think it’s only ever been used by the Jedi. People do tend to quote other people’s words directly, including jargon, close to the event, but it’s been at least hours since that conversation and Padmé should probably have just edited it in her head by now removing Jedi specific words.

I may be wrong and non-Jedi do use it to refer to children but either way, it’s still a silly word.

NFBisms said:

For the most part, I don’t think it contradicts the chronology of the original too much. Besides, my approach to editing Hayden to be more like Lanter isn’t really in adhering to TCW like gospel, but rather re-introducing him as the same character. You’re never going to get the same mannerisms or overall vibe/demeanor between the two men, but you have to be able to believe that these two interpretations occupy the same space and role within the world. It’s more than removing something Lanter’s Anakin wouldn’t say, it’s editing characters to treat Hayden like Lanter’s Anakin, and giving him things to say and do that Lanter might’ve. The adjusted chronology is a way to establish Hayden in that same role, where the theatrical builds off of Attack of the Clones. Think of it as establishing the character to someone who had never seen TCW, and how they would get who that Anakin was without having seen it themselves. If we see do see the same things again in TCW, it’s retreading for an audience unfamiliar with TCW.

That’s fair enough. So far I’ve followed TCW with your cut of this film and it’s only improved on what is already my favourite SW film. Just, considering how well they mesh at the moment I’d be disappointed if the chronology didn’t work out. Obviously it’s your edit and how it flows for you from a narrative standpoint needs to come first.
The series 7 trailer also has some scenes like Anakin interacting with a pregnant Padmé which makes me think there’s going to be more intercutting with RotS than we first thought (i.e. Order 66).

NFBisms said:

Speaking of which, here’s my take on the lead-up to Mustafar:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1swtkqqDU6pPobxU0fOQVaklmo7sDvD5v/view?usp=sharing

It’s a bit of a switcheroo from the theatrical as far as Obi-Wan and Padme go. Padme admits to bringing Obi-Wan to kill Anakin later obviously, but I think Obi-Wan here doesn’t come off as someone who’s trying to kill anyone. He doesn’t get a mission from Yoda to take out Anakin, and by moving his “Anakin is the father” to before he sits down, it conveys he wants to help him. I mean, that’s not something you say as a reason for someone to bring you to someone you want to kill.

Having him sit back down to talk to her after working it out does two things, firstly it softens him up (as you say, to somebody trying to help Anakin) but it also humanises the characters, he’s known Padmé for as long as he’s known Anakin. Lucas was not a master of directing people when speaking even if the dialogue is fine.

NFBisms said:

For the Mustafar scene itself, I think Obi-Wan being less angry with Anakin at this juncture is essential to the arc. He thinks he can bring him back, and only fights as “what he must.” When he finally forsakes Anakin by the end of an emotional fight, that is truly when Vader is born. I realize the rearrangement of lines may be jarring to those so familiar with the original film, but this is supposed to be a different thing. I really want to get it feeling as natural as possible. I’m juggling with like three different shifted characters motivations so it can be difficult but I think I’m getting close-ish?

The only issue I have there is that Obi-Wan ignites first. That makes sense when he came to kill him but if he’s there to reason with him I don’t think he’d give up until Anakin goes for him.

NFBisms said:

Do you think it’d be impossible for it to ever work?

There’s only two limitations, the availability of footage/dialogue and how much you stick with your vision for it and how much other influence bleeds in.

I have very few issues with RotS as a film and already, by making Anakin’s turn far less jarring, you’ve already solved one.

Your new videos are good! Some great additions in there. Let me give you some technical/editing advice.

For your Mustafar confrontation:
When Anakin says, “I’m becoming more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of, and I’m doing it for you. To protect you. Only my new powers can do that. Trust me.” I would suggest cutting the shot of Anakin and place it over the shot of Padme backing away, and if “trust me” doesn’t fit, just cut it. The shot feels a little odd, since Padme starts backing up, but then in that shot she isn’t moving. Either use “trust me”, or “only my new powers can do that”, but I think it would be better to just remove that shot.

I feel like there is a lot of quick cuts when Anakin and Padme notice Obi-Wan is at the top of the landing ramp. I wonder if certain shots could be removed to tighten that up a little.

The added line, “You weren’t there! I did what I had to do!” doesn’t really fit imo.

The pre-Mustafar stuff:
You cut quickly to Obi-Wan to remove Yoda calling Anakin “young”, but honestly I think you should consider keeping it in this instance because this cut is just way too quick.

I understand why you cut Obi mentioning “the death of Count Dooku” to Padme, but I think we lose some of the time we get to see of Padme as the reality of the situation slowly begins to sink in for her. It feels like the scene moves by rather quickly.

I do like how you were able to keep Obi-Wan realizing Anakin is the father. That works pretty well I think.

I don’t think it is necessary to show Obi-Wan hiding in a small room aboard Padme’s ship, because in your version she knows he is with her, right? I understand why he would need to sneak on the ship so no one else sees him, but once they’re on the ship he shouldn’t be hiding from anyone.

I’ll try to be brief but I wanted to talk a little about the characterization. I understand why you wouldn’t want to make it seem like Obi-Wan isn’t going there to kill Anakin, but by removing this, now it seems really weird that Padme claims that she brought Obi-Wan there to kill him. So she is mad and is lying to him that her and Obi came to kill him? But she just told him she loved him still, so why should she try to trigger him like that?

It just feels really out of left field for her to say that now, especially if Obi-Wan didn’t give her the impression that he might have to kill him. I also think some tension is lost if Yoda doesn’t pose that dilemma to Obi-Wan. It is similar to Yoda and Obi-Wan telling Luke that he must kill Darth Vader. There is conflict in the task Luke must face and his own morals. You get a conflict with Obi-Wan, who doesn’t want to kill Anakin, but Yoda tells him the Sith must be destroyed. The moral dilemma creates interesting drama. So I think there is some benefit to Obi-Wan telling Yoda he can’t kill Anakin, then Padme asking if he is going to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan not knowing how to answer. Maybe when Obi-Wan and Padme go, they want to try and save Anakin, but they don’t know if they can. It provides this through line that would lead up to Padme realizing Anakin has changed and admitting they came to stop him.

Right now it feels like this.
Anakin: You brought him here to kill me!
Padme: Because of what you’ve done, what you plan to do!
Obi-Wan: Whoa, wait, that wasn’t the plan!

I think you also have this issue of removing Anakin telling Padme that he brought peace to the Republic and that they can rule the galaxy, but as soon as Padme is out cold he starts talking about his new Empire. I guesss it is supposed to be that since Padme has turned against him, he changes his focus to the Empire? I feel like it would work better with what you’re trying to do if all that talk could also be changed, because even if it is pushed back to after Anakin chokes Padme, the change is rather sudden. Based on the way you’re portraying Anakin, I feel like Anakin wouldn’t be talking like that until after Padme is dead and has lost everythng else.

I have some ideas for some of these changes but I’ll see what your thoughts are first. Again, not trying to say there is a right or wrong way to approach this. Just trying to logic through the characterizations to make sure they hold up.

NFBisms said:

As for Padme, I’ve replaced “Stop! stop! Come back! I love you!” with “I don’t know you anymore” to keep her consistent after she backs away… Although, yes now it feels a little like she is way less forgiving of Anakin and for less reason. You just have to remember mass murderer I guess, and through that lens she’d be in the right. Or any lens, really. But we’re all so familiar with her being inexplicably lovestruck with said mass murderer in the theatrical that it feels off.

I actually think it feels [i]less[/i] sudden now. With the reintegrated Rebellion scenes she’s already committed herself to doing what’s right over loyalty to the institution she’s served since she was 14 and to the man who introduced her to politics. She’s already seen the Republic go off the deep end in the War and now it looks like Palpatine has also betrayed her, that’s a lot of loss for a person and now Anakin has shown he’s clearly been with Palpatine since the beginning (or as far as she can see anyway). It actually gives her a chance to show some emotions of he own (namely anger and betrayal) rather than just existing in the orbit of Anakin.

It also helps remove the single worst scene of any SW film (and I include Jar-Jar reacting to the pink horses in TPM) which is the scene in AotC where she forgives him for wiping out an entire village and passes it off as ‘normal’ behaviour.

NFBisms said:

Here’s a newer pass:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P97bR4caigVEJ6Ph_dVRS7qTznH_FvEM/view?usp=sharing

Idk why but the “you werent there” was pitched up on the previous two passes, bringing it back down in this one fits better and to a point that I’m okay with.

I’m not sure how easy or not it would be to add a sound (and possibly a visual) effect of one of the plume eruptions in the background when he says the line. It is undeniably more muffled than the rest but making it look like it was drowned out by the location would help I think. Though the integration is far more natural than it was and It’s too good a line to loose I think.

NFBisms said:

I’m working on a way to make Anakin attack first, but VFX isn’t my strongest suit

Well beyond my skills, but the frames from when Obi-Wan is holding out his hilt should be enough to copy forward to cover over the blade, as long as you add the sound effect of him igniting as the camera is on Anakin flipping then you can avoid having to try and fit it into another part of the scene. It looks like you’ve essentially done that anyway but with a cut.

Also, going back to the point RogueLeader made above, The shots of Padmé boarding her ship are long shots so it [i]might[/i] not be too difficult to have a hooded Obi-Wan walk up the ramp behind her and 3PO to show they’ve agreed to do this together (or at least he thinks he’s there to help Anakin and she thinks he’s there to stop Anakin) as it should just be a matter of taking the existing Obi-Wan and have him follow rather than appearing behind some boxes.
It’s not massively important, you could just not show him at all with the assumption being that he’s already onboard but I agree that seeing him hiding doesn’t fit with Padmé’s new motivations.

Mmmmh, I find the “you turned her against me, don’t you turn against me” a bit weird. I mean, if Obi-Wan turned Padmé against Anakin, then Obi-Wan turned against Anakin already.

NFBisms said:

That’s fair. In the context of the rest of the edit though, there’s just nothing to suggest prior bad blood between Anakin and Obi-Wan. And since I’m not approaching Anakin’s fall from the angle that Anakin is blindly corrupted and villainous, I needed to convey that Anakin still sees Obi-Wan as a friend. Obviously Obi-Wan “turned” Padme against him, but I think it’s clear with the rest of the edit that Obi-Wan didn’t intend to. Anakin should be able to sense that.

Anakin in this edit hasn’t gone fully over to the dark side by this point. Sure, he’s killed a lot but he doesn’t like that he had to do it. He doesn’t feel like he’s the one who’s been betrayed - he’s fully aware that he’s the one betraying. He had hoped to hide this from Padme, and he could never look at Obi-Wan again.

But now that he’s confronted with consequence - a Padme who hates him - he doesn’t necessarily want to lose Obi-Wan too. Obi-Wan should have died. “Don’t you turn against me. Don’t lecture me. Don’t make me kill you.” Join me, just let me do this, get out of here or else.

“Don’t you turn against me” also gives Obi-Wan something to work with as reframed actually trying to help Anakin. Instead of Anakin’s anger and lust for power taking Padme away (as Obi-Wan responds to in the theatrical), they are the things that Obi-Wan says have turned against Anakin himself. Obi-Wan wants to convey that Anakin is a victim of his own selfish passions; he isn’t indicting Anakin as much as he is the toxic feelings that led him where he is now. He believes he can still make the right choice.

Anakin’s cognizant rejection of that olive branch is what will make him Vader. Padme thinks he’s a monster. It’s too late for him.

Darth Vader is a cold and in-control warlord. And a loyal servant of the Empire. He’s more hollow shell than vengeful maniac. I think the transition between Anakin and Vader is smoother without the in-between: the childlike, power-obssessed Proto-Vader we get in the theatrical.

Ok. Thanks for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer. I like your ideas very much and I can’t wait for this edit to be released 😄

The version looks nice! Just spitballing, but I’ve been thinking about how Anakin and Obi’s convo could be altered to remove the Empire.

You would have to cut to Obi-Wan checking Padme a little earlier since Anakin starts saying, “I have brought peace, yada yada” in the wide. You might can reverse the insert shot of Obi so he continues down to touch her face, then in the Anakin CU we just see him raising up.
If you could somehow splice the shot of Anakin staring toward camera in the foreground and Obi in the background, as Obi raises up into view you could have Anakin say, “Don’t make me kill you.”
(If you managed to do this, I think it could be useful to keep, “I see through the lies of the Jedi, I do not fear the dark side as you do.” In order to fill the quiet space as Obi checks Padme. It could still work with just some silence though.)
Then you cut to the shot looking over Anakin’s shoulder and have Obi say, “Anakin, face up to what you’ve done!”
Then it cuts to just Obi, and we hear Anakin say, “If you’re not with me…”, which Obi replies with, “I will do what I must.”

If you could manage this, it could be useful to have Anakin still be focused on Padme somewhat, so you could keep, “You will not take her from me!” line.