Revenge Of The Cut - Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith (* unfinished project *) — Page 5

vaderios said:

rpvee said:

Maybe because I edit things myself, I'm seeing things more than others here, but I know there are other editors here, too, so I don't know...

Maybe if I could make a video pointing things out in this scene of yours like you've done, I could explain it better.

I d love to see your approach there :D

 

-Angel

I'd try it, if I had Cutter's permission.  Meanwhile, Frink's post is one big "AMEN".

It's interesting to see both Bob and the Cutter's takes so closely coming together and while both being very different each represent an improvement in some key areas.

It might help sell this set up (as I posted in the Radical Redux Thread) if we saw Sidious already with the prune face look so when Palpatine makes his sudden transformation it's obvious that this is his true face.

I'd drop the Changeling line though because it sounds daft to these ears, the term pops up in so many different science fiction series and other than Zam (where the ability makes no sense at all) they are seen nowhere else in the Star Wars universe (I'd drop this for Zam and make it a special skill of Palpatine's alone so the Jedi would have no name for what he is doing).

What Bob is doing with the lighting is an ideal way to reveal this transformation.

He could drop the mask in mid strobe creating an alarming effect.

The Cutter's approach would be a good way of removing the embarrassing shift between Ian's rather good performance as Chancellor Palpatine to his hammy halloween mask performance as Emperor Sidious.

No more "no no no no". 

I have explained my approach in post 16 :

It's a choice : let bad stuff or have a cut more "dynamic" with few minor problems. In my case, it's just impossible : the bad stuff when I see it, make me instantly "leave the movie" (specialy stupid joke, too bad cgi and "teen love")

I do not pretend make a perfectly cut (as you say, it's impossible without new material). I just want to enjoy the movie from the beginning to the end without having to slam my head on the wall every minutes...and this implies, in my case, to make some sacrifices.

it's not that I don't have any sense of timing...or didn't see things when they go little too fast. It's very simple : I don't want bad stuff in my cut.

Lucas traumatized me with episode 2 and 3...now my level of tolerance is ZERO.

However my movie have a reasonably smooth flow...only little and short sequences go little quick, that's all.

There is really a big work on content and form. I do not only cut the bad stuff and then "stick" what it remains. I work a long time to find the best things, the best dialogues, better music...and the most important : how to save Palpatine from this stupidity.

just cleaning the voices (even if it's the center track) so I can add a new music, recreate the sound design (ambiances, winds etc) was really a long work...it's not so easy.

so when I read : "you only cut the bad stuff...it's to rough..."
I am little surprised...I don't want to convince those who don't like it...but don't only focus on little things...there is here much more to preserve  than the perfect flow : Palpatine dignity. And in this sequence it's impossible to do that with a perfect flow.

rpve said : 

Maybe because I edit things myself, I'm seeing things more than others here,

do you really think I do not notice where are the little problems in my cut ? I perfectly see them...but I tried everything, impossible to do better. If you want to help me, suggest me a new cut, but keep exactly the same stuff (it's impossible for me to bear what I have removed) .
I worked so many hours on this little sequence that pointing what's wrong is useless : I already know.

rpve, you have a very sharp eye, I like that...but it's not because you noticed the problems on my edit that it mean you can do better. The only way to improve the flow on this sequence is to add stuff that I can't bear. It's a vicious cercle

Brash_striker said it perfectly (thanks to him) : His is a vast improvement even though it may not (and can't possibly, with the footage available) be perfect, and any improvements you might recommend would probably compromise his philosophy by adding horrible stuff back in

TV's Frink said

I like fanedits that try to be seamless, as if the fanedit is the actual original.  As such, I found the cuts a little distracting.

Thanks for your comment !

What can we do when one of the most important sequence of a movie is absolutly, totally messed ?

all the ambiguity is here : favored the flow or the sense ? (when it's impossible to do both)

 TV's Frink said

I've seen plenty of edits that are able to remove the crap while maintaining a reasonably smooth flow.  So I know it is possible.

As I already said, my edit, generally, has a good flow. Regarding the Mace/Sidious sequence, I agree, some things go little too fast...but take time to get used to it. If it was so lame that you and rpve said, I am sure that nobody could appreciate it.

This and the beginning (Grievous ship) are not representative sequences regarding the flow of all my edit.  

Theses sequences are completely missed  and can only be treated with a radical cut (IMO)

it's impossible for me to remove the crap in the mace/sidious sequence and keep a perfect flow...just because there is too much crap.

 TV's Frink said

Also should mention there are a few places where you've replaced dialogue but it is obvious from mouth motion that it has been replaced.

Yes, but not important for me, it's just very short sequences (I think the only moment in this edit), and it give much more sense - the essential for me is the sense of the movie, the idea.

TV's Frink said

Having said that, this is your edit and you should strive to make it as radical as you see fit.  There's nothing wrong with doing things as rough as you want in order to get your version of the movie, it just won't be some people's cup of tea (mine included).

You're perfectly right. First, I create this edit for my own pleasure...Now I share it because I am sure that some, who shares the same vision as me, will love it as I do.. I don't want to convice anyone, it's not for sale !  ^^

TV's Frink said

Good luck with the edit.  I do hope you are able to produce something you truly enjoy.

Thank you very much ! this edit is almost finished (95%) and I must admit that it saves my life.

as you say, the essential is to enjoy....so enjoy ! ; )

Further to my other comments it might help any depiction of this scene to re-dub Palpatine's lines after the change to make them less over the top.

They could still be a bit distorted to cover whoever does the voice acting but it's laid on too thick in the current run (though your editing takes some of the worst examples away).

If you listen to ROTJ the Emperor never sounds this bizarre (it might make sense for him to sound like that in a hologram where he is trying to hide his identity but talking like this to his new apprentice sounds odd in a bad way).

It might also help if Palpatine put his hood up as soon as possible and if those eyes were toned down a bit (the whole effect looks like a bad impersonation of the Emperor rather than a younger version of the character from Return Of The Jedi).

vaderios said:

Oh this is nice.

Will the final edit have surprises and edits that you didnt post here?

Cant wait :D

 

-Angel

There are many little change and cut all around the movie, new musics...

a little but very important cut :

- where is Padme... ? is she safe ?

- it seems that in your anger, you killed her

Vader no more saying : "is she alright ?...... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !! "

I will post new videos about this. it's good to have comments, it can help improve things further.

Bingowings said:

What Bob is doing with the lighting is an ideal way to reveal this transformation.

where can I see that ?

bingowings said

It might also help if Palpatine put his hood up as soon as possible and if those eyes were toned down a bit (the whole effect looks like a bad impersonation of the Emperor rather than a younger version of the character from Return Of The Jedi).

lol...it is not catastrophic, but it's also messed.

bingowings said

Further to my other comments it might help any depiction of this scene to re-dub Palpatine's lines after the change to make them less over the top.

I never thought about that, but it's interesting. I will see what I can do.

what do you think about Sidious grunts ?

The Cutter said:

Bingowings said:

What Bob is doing with the lighting is an ideal way to reveal this transformation.

where can I see that ?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/SW-Episode-III-Reign-of-the-Dark-Side/topic/11343/

Erikstormtrooper said:

The "use my power, I beg you" force voice is a little confusing. Why would he use that when he is in person? Plus, it's confusing whether he's really saying it, since we don't see his face. All the other times Obi Wan uses a force voice, he's already dead.

You could use this voice in the ruminations scene, when he's sitting in the Jedi council.

In my edit, he said only : "use my knowledge"

The idea of telepathy is just a "bonus", this is not necessary. In my vision, Palpatine used telepathy here to influence Anakin at this very critical moment, to show him another part of his power...Just imagine the way you can feel if you hear someone directly in your head : "use my knowledge ! "

I find this very sutbil.

 The voice is really peacefull, we have the feeling that Palpatine knows exactly what he does, he is not scared...

Vader speaks to Luke and Luke to leia through the force (ESB)...As I said in my video, even if Obi-wan is dead and Vader/Luke/leia are related, it's always through the force that they can speak

I really love the sequence when Vader speaks to luke in his mind : "my son...come with me" - it's just excellent, very intense and dramatic. This little sequence is much more intense than 2 hours of Attack of the clones !

so it's just a little glance...

Things go to fast to use the voice in the rumination scene.

Well, I worked out a whole video pointing things out and-what not, but upon proof-viewing it, half the video turned up dark for some reason and in the half that I did see, I noticed other errors I should've picked up on, such as Palpatine's face transforming for no reason.

I'm just going to say it: This edit is not very good.  I believe it even more after making that video.  If you want me to re-make it, I will.

My ROTS-edit allegiance is with bobgarcia's.

rpvee said:

My ROTS-edit allegiance is with bobgarcia's.

It's not a competition ;-)

rpvee, why waste your time?  This edit is not for you (or me, for that matter), and there's nothing wrong with that.

I've seen that happen with other topics once in a while - it's temporary, probably something to do with the forum software (glitch in the matrix or something).

TV's Frink said:

I've seen that happen with other topics once in a while - it's temporary, probably something to do with the forum software (glitch in the matrix or something).

Funny, I don't see any black cats or a would-be savior going "Whoa..." anywhere. :P 

Hmmm...upgrades. ;-)

TV's Frink said:

rpvee said:

My ROTS-edit allegiance is with bobgarcia's.

It's not a competition ;-)

rpvee, why waste your time?  This edit is not for you (or me, for that matter), and there's nothing wrong with that.

I know it's not a competition, didn't mean for it to sound that way...

Anyways, I know there's nothing wrong with not liking an edit.  It's just that having Cutter pretty much say "Well look at this, the original film has bad cuts too, so mine are ok" is really annoying... it shouldn't be ok.  But whatever, I've stated my points.

rpvee said:

 It's just that having Cutter pretty much say "Well look at this, the original film has bad cuts too, so mine are ok" is really annoying... it shouldn't be ok.  But whatever, I've stated my points.

isn't this bad faith ?

read all the post please !

I have never say that my cut are good because there is bad cuts in the original too !!! you focus on little things in my edit, and I show you there is also  this kind of mystake in the original movie...is this really hard to understand ?

you just taking what you want in my words...not really try to understand the meaning.

I already know all  the problems in this little sequence, I don't need you for that. You just want to prove that my cut is really bad...but you don't really want to see the good aspect of it.

you said : I noticed other errors I should've picked up on, such as Palpatine's face transforming for no reason.

everything is explain in the video...changeling etc of course I can't shoot new sequences with Ian macdiarmid ! I really don't understand your approach poiting this kind of things...do you really think you are the only one to see that ?

you are not a fair person...I take much time to explain everything about my approach, my choice etc and you come back again and again to the same points : " it's too rough (...) having Cutter pretty much say "Well look at this, the original film has bad cuts too, so mine are ok" is really annoying"

what's the problem with you ?

I have already replied to this in the post 99 :

rpvee said:

 But just saying "Well the original has worse cuts!" does not make your cuts better.

I only say that to show you that it's not dramatical, it doesn't destroy the film...on the contrary, the stuff I removed ruin the movie

vaderios said

The way that makes the changes and for me it works and they dont look like rough cuts of nonsense with no sound fades and missing frames then i think he succeeded ;)

thanks for your support

I think its great to see people being creative and showing their perceptive of how they see how scenes should go, can't wait to see some more edits Mr Cutter!!

J

rpvee said:

I suggest the following: Anakin kills Dooku. The shot of him looking confused. "He was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that-" (Palpatine cuts him off) "You did well, Anakin. He was too dangerous to be kept alive." "It's not the Jedi way." "It is only natural..." and so on.

I did not answer  to this because I did not want to "hurt" you.

Since you make edit yourself...try do to this

it's just impossible : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSqA1m3XGFY

for me you don't really know the difficulty of editing. You are good pointing bad things...and saying " it's rough..."   but you suggest impossible things.

try to make this sequence with Anakin and Palpatine as you suggest it...and post it here

good luck !

Before suggesting things or criticize, take time to realise the real difficulty of editing.

rpvee said:

Anyways, I know there's nothing wrong with not liking an edit.  It's just that having Cutter pretty much say "Well look at this, the original film has bad cuts too, so mine are ok" is really annoying... it shouldn't be ok.  But whatever, I've stated my points.

Although I agree with your basic premise, you are making it more and more difficult to take your side in this matter.  When it comes to fanediting, there is no right and wrong.  If you don't like something, you don't have to watch it.  You still can watch the original, watch other fanedits, or make your own.

On fanedit.org, there is a quality control process.  Fanedits are approved or not approved.  On that site, it is valid to discuss whether or not cuts are done correctly and if a fanedit is worthy for inclusion on the site.

However, this is not fanedit.org.

Please, honestly, let it go.  We've made our points about how we feel.  If The Cutter is interested in making changes to address our points, it is worth continued discussion.  But right or wrong, he feels improvements are not possible without compromising his vision.

So let it go.