logo Sign In

Revenge Of The Cut - Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith (* unfinished project *) — Page 22

Author
Time

On that I agree, I prefer the she but if it were changed. "That" makes more sense than "it."

Forum Moderator
Author
Time

Tobar said:

Yes but he's not saying "it doesn't matter." That's an entirely different sentence than "It no longer has any meaning for me." Now read these examples out loud and tell me which sounds better:

"It no longer has any meaning for me. Now I know the power of the dark side."

"That no longer has any meaning for me. Now I know the power of the da irk side."

 

reading it outloud, "it" makes more sense and sounds better. it sounds far more cold and chilling than "that" or "she" or anything which implies he's actually giving thought to it. "that" is far less dismissive than "it"

"she no longer has any meaning for me" sounds like some boy-girl drama...darth vader doesn't process this now. 

"that no longer has any meaning for me" still sounds considered and soft. 

"it" is the epitome of short, uninterested, mechanical. 

from a theatrical/artistic/emotional pov, the mood and atmosphere of the moment is best carried with "it"

the other options soften it and pull me out of the chill 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

another way to put it,

 

"that..." communicates "i know, but i don't care now"

"it..." communicates "does not compute"

 

i'm a fan of the latter

Author
Time

You're leaving the preceding line out of the equation: "It seems in your anger you killed her." Following that up with, "It no longer has any meaning for me." Doesn't make sense or sound right. Going back to your original point, the word "it" is still a very personal word. "It" is directly addressing the situation, "that" is an impersonal brushing off of the subect.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
 (Edited)

Tobar said:

You're leaving the preceding line out of the equation: "It seems in your anger you killed her." Following that up with, "It no longer has any meaning for me." Doesn't make sense or sound right. Going back to your original point, the word "it" is still a very personal word. "It" is directly addressing the situation, "that" is an impersonal brushing off of the subect.

 

lol see i just take it the entirely different way...the slight "offness" of it isn't wrong to me, it's just off because there's no conversational acknowledgement there. you're trying to tell this machine something and "he" responds like a computer. not that vader's a computer, but its nice to convey that level of rote response in his debut moment. "it" is as rote as it gets.

at least to me 

not trying to force my opinion, just feel unusually invested in this tiny sentence lol

Author
Time

That's the other part of your reasoning I don't understand. All through out the original trilogy Vader is a very angry dude who often lashes out in violence. That does not sound like an emotionless machine.

The only thing I can figure is you're basing this all on the line, "He's more machine now than man." But that's not the entirety of the line, the whole this is: "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil." Again not something that describes an emotionless robot.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
 (Edited)

I actually think Jonatello is onto something. "It" would affirm Ben's statement in ROTJ of Vader being more machine than man. It could also help to explain why Obi Wan did not hesitate in confronting Vader on the Death Star; he thought there was no one left to save, just a sort of reanimated carcass. To the audience as well, Vader seems completely distant and the last of sympathy, the human connection, has left him.

Vader no longer recognizes his human nature and uses that quality to distance himself from moral judgment. He serves himself now and only later in ESB when Luke shows up, do his human qualities and his capacity for "human" moral judgment resurface. "It" may not be just Padme but his entire human nature.

In any case, maybe I am reading too much into it. The Cutter's work really is very good and uncovers much depth in the ROTS story I previously thought not possible.

EDIT: In response to Tobar's comment, Vader's unemotional and self-serving quality make him "evil." With no moral nature, he is unconnected with the force (life's representation) and what Obi-Wan would consider evil. Vader has changed into a machine which is driven only by the need to survive and better its own conditions; therefore, it cares for no one: evil.

Author
Time

Tobar said:

That's the other part of your reasoning I don't understand. All through out the original trilogy Vader is a very angry dude who often lashes out in violence. That does not sound like an emotionless machine.

The only thing I can figure is you're basing this all on the line, "He's more machine now than manman." But that's not the entirety of the line, the whole this is: "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil." Again not something that describes an emotionless robot.

right...vader, even throughout the original trilogy, has moments of emotion

but also has very cold machinelike moments

but for me, a saga like this is opera, its art. 

the moment when a man who shortly after practically turning his soul off has just had a large amount of his human body replaced with black wired-laden metal machinery in a dingy room by an evil dark lord who is programming him to serve the dark side...such a moment is less about wookipedia documentation of _(character)__'s precise total emotional capacity...it's much moreso an expression about the idea of losing one's humanity...becoming an empty shell.

the nuances of his remaining humanity will have plenty of chance to be developed and elucidated later on...but not here.

and even regular fully human non-dark-lord normal people like us are not always given to emotional response when it would seem humanly appropriate. sometimes even we can come off ultra cold. even as far as accuracy is concerned, just because vader is still technically capable of caring, he's also SOMETIMES incapable...just like us, but way worse. 

Author
Time

The Aluminum Falcon said:

I actually think Jonatello is onto something. "It" would affirm Ben's statement in ROTJ of Vader being more machine than man. It could also help to explain why Obi Wan did not hesitate in confronting Vader on the Death Star; he thought there was no one left to save, just a sort of reanimated carcass. To the audience as well, Vader seems completely distant and the last of sympathy, the human connection, has left him.

Yeah, the dominant impression of Darth Vader is meant to be that of a mechanical monster, not a human being. This is the reason for the helmet. It's why he is presented as a sinister robotic looking mask instead of a face. Its why he's made of blinking lights and wires among other things. Obviously, in the plot, there's practical reasons...but the practical reasons are there to serve the more important artistic reason.

And generally, this is how the audience came to view him. Some people even called him a robot. It's part of whats so shocking about the reveal of him being Luke's father.

 

Vader no longer recognizes his human nature and uses that quality to distance himself from moral judgment. He serves himself now and only later in ESB when Luke shows up, do his human qualities and his capacity for "human" moral judgment resurface. "It" may not be just Padme but his entire human nature.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. This was the next thing I wanted to say and you took the words out of my mouth. The fact that Vader finally begins to get broken down and renewed as Anakin little by little ONLY when he becomes aware of his children...the fact that it's his son (his son who is probably nowhere near as powerful or gifted) who looks into this mechanical monster and determines to love him out of the empty 1-dimensional hatred of the dark side is what makes the whole thing so powerful in the end. He's a machine to most people before that point. Probably even to his daughter. 

And the time when it is most crucial to express such emotionless machinery is when it is first introduced in that chamber where he's just been reassembled.

Exit: screaming anakin, Enter: beeping slave.

 

In any case, maybe I am reading too much into it. The Cutter's work really is very good and uncovers much depth in the ROTS story I previously thought not possible.

EDIT: In response to Tobar's comment, Vader's unemotional and self-serving quality make him "evil." With no moral nature, he is unconnected with the force (life's representation) and what Obi-Wan would consider evil. Vader has changed into a machine which is driven only by the need to survive and better its own conditions; therefore, it cares for no one: evil.

Bingo. Vader becomes a symbol of that cold unfeeling type of evil. It's the reason for the outfit. It's what gives the redemption power. 

Author
Time

TV's Frink said:

Re: it, that, she, etc.

 

http://summitprojectsflashblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ogre.jpg

 

;-)

 

LOL! touche (i can't lie, i was waiting for someone to reply like this...i'll admit it)

Author
Time

I haven't seen Cutter in here lately. Hope everything is ok.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

Re: it, that, she, etc.

 

http://summitprojectsflashblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ogre.jpg

 

;-)

 

...but I always thought there were only nerds in this forum ; )

 

Don't worry I am still alive !

I am just trying to overcome the depression caused by the Star Wars blu-ray..

Antidepressants don't work, even my Leia sex doll is useless...

 

Author
Time

The Cutter said:

TV's Frink said:

Re: it, that, she, etc.

 

http://summitprojectsflashblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ogre.jpg

 

;-)

 

...but I always thought there were only nerds in this forum ; )

 

There are nerds, and then there are NERDS!!!! ;-)

Author
Time

TV's Frink said:

The Cutter said:

TV's Frink said:

Re: it, that, she, etc.

 

http://summitprojectsflashblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ogre.jpg

 

;-)

 

...but I always thought there were only nerds in this forum ; )

 

There are nerds, and then there are NERDS!!!! ;-)

And just which rank of Nerdom do you occupy, Frink?

Author
Time

I just hope to see more of this kind...

 

 

Author
Time

The Cutter said:

I just hope to see more of this kind...

 

 

yes...yes indeed lol

 

(you really should try fitting her into the film ;) ) lol

Author
Time

When will there be a full DVD version of this? Looks awesome!

Author
Time

Indeed when will a full version be out? This is an ambitious project judging by all those YouTube videos.

Author
Time

2012...if this is not the end of the world ^_^

Author
Time
The world can end after I see this edit, Avengers and go to one of the new casinos in Ohio.
Author
Time

Haven't seen an update on this for a while, but I am very excited about this edit, much like bobgarcia's.  These two, though different approaches, have me pretty worked up.  Hope all is well and progress is being made here :)

Author
Time

Yeah, I hope Cutter hasn't dropped off the map. Very interested in this edit!