Sign In

Return of the Jedi: Radical Re-Edit (Released) — Page 2

Author
Time

bkev said:

I flipped through this video to check out what was new effects-wise.  Admittedly, a few things are rough - and that's to be expected when you're pulling from fan films etc.  Plus, you're really early in the editing stages.  If there were any way to improve the CG matte shots on Coruscant I think it would be a lot less anachronistic in relation to the rest of the film; I would love to see it work properly, but right now it stands out too much to me.

I really liked what you did with the Jabba introduction.  It's too the point and by flipping the sequencing of the 3PO and Leia scenes you've managed to make him intimidating right off the bat - and no musical number is definitely a plus.  I wasn't a big fan of the pan-down to Tatooine when Vader tried to reach out to Luke with the force, though - again, anachronistic.  And I don't mean necessarily in terms of the effect itself, I mean the editing.  It feels, for lack of a better term, too modern.  It would have stood out like crazy in 1983.

Also a big fan of how you cut down the 3PO/R2 intro to Jabba's Palace via the deleted scene.  THAT cut felt really natural to me.

 

tl;dr a little rough as expected at this stage but looking forward to what comes of this.

Re: Coruscant. That sequence is the best quality video I've been able to find of a shuttle flying through the city. I've spent hours looking. I think the quality is decent, but unfortunately YouTube butchers videos with its aggressive compression.

The use of the Star Tours footage to link Vader and Luke might end up being cut. But I do like the idea of linking the two characters. There are other moments in the edit where I try to show Vader getting into Luke's head, so that moment (poor CGI and all) is telling the audience that although they're worlds away Vader is always with Luke.

Author
Time

regularjoe said:

I'm in agreement with the rest of the people who don't like the Yoda scene split. It just seems like a speed bump to me.  I really like everything else that I saw.  I wish that I could offer some advice on how to work around that, maybe I'll have an idea after watching your workprint.  I don't think it hurts to leave it intact - I do like that you cut the scene with Ben entirely.  I was disappointed first seeing this in the theaters because Yoda's dialogue is mostly recycled, then Ben shows up and doesn't really say much of anything new or different outside of Leia is your sister....and there is nothing wrong with leaving that to be a force revelation during the final saber battle.

 

The Ben scene is one of my least favourite scenes in the movie. Even if Sir Alec didn't look bored out of his skull, it would still just be five minutes of exposition while sitting on a tree trunk.

If I could work out a way of Luke figuring out that "another Skywalker" was Leia I'd put that subplot back into the movie. I don't particularly care for it, it's one coincidence too many, but Luke attacking Vader at the end of their fight hinges on it, and without it (and anyone who's seen my edit will testify to this) that beat just doesn't work.

If anyone can think up ways Luke can come to the realization without Obi Wan's assistance I'd really like to hear them.

Author
Time

Ben Danger has kindly let me use his idea, so here's an uber-rough version of the new opening:

https://vimeo.com/65283353 (password: wordpass)

(excuse the jerkiness, not quite sure how that happened)

The three changes: new crawl with proper alignment, new lightsaber scene, Yoda death scene no longer broken up into two.

Now I need to figure out how to do the special effects for that first scene...

 

Author
Time

This new cut feels good in terms of pacing and logic but that lightsaber constrution footage is very rough.  Needs changing for something else used cause it doesn't fit with the impressive quality of the rest of the sourced material you've sourced.

I don't mind the yoda scene being split into two in principle but two things that would help is if:

1. You cut at some point before or during Yoda walking from right to left

2. Then cut back with yoda in the bed. This will help make the two parts distinctive in terms of composition.

3. subtely recoloured the 2nd half in perhaps more muted/grey/blue hue. This would give it a sombre feel and again seperate it visual, which would help to seperate it in time also.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

daneditor said:

The use of the Star Tours footage to link Vader and Luke might end up being cut. But I do like the idea of linking the two characters. There are other moments in the edit where I try to show Vader getting into Luke's head, so that moment (poor CGI and all) is telling the audience that although they're worlds away Vader is always with Luke.

I dig the idea, but I think the execution is poor.  Maybe jump cuts like in the final moments of ESB would work better... or were they really quick fades?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author
Time

Ryan McAvoy said:

This new cut feels good in terms of pacing and logic but that lightsaber constrution footage is very rough.  Needs changing for something else used cause it doesn't fit with the impressive quality of the rest of the sourced material you've sourced.

I don't mind the yoda scene being split into two in principle but two things that would help is if:

1. You cut at some point before or during Yoda walking from right to left

2. Then cut back with yoda in the bed. This will help make the two parts distinctive in terms of composition.

3. subtely recoloured the 2nd half in perhaps more muted/grey/blue hue. This would give it a sombre feel and again seperate it visual, which would help to seperate it in time also.

The footage in the clip I uploaded to vimeo is from here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4

It's a test only, to give some idea how it will look, and to see if the pacing works.

I'll be recreating the scene  myself, as well as cleaning up the deleted scene in Avisynth.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I hopscotched around the workprint last night, mostly trying to hunt out the large changes.

I think it is really impressive and enjoyed what I saw a lot and would certainly like to see where you take this.

I was quite impressed with how you addressed the Endor battle (ground theater).  I always imagined the cut scene on the Death Star focused on the space battle and I like how it was tied in with the fanfilm work of stormtroopers vs. rebels.  I've heard other people opine about having Boba Fett vs Han worked in here and how you did this was quite engaging.  I realize that based on your source material you're probably stuck there with the burned in captions (and Boba Fett using the word "closure" doesn't work) and the actor in the Fett costume...that costume doesn't fit, again, beyond your control.

 

My only true concern here is the scenes with Boba Fett on Endor.  They work pretty well but all the really tight shots on Fett's helmet doesn't work for me at all.  Again, I know that you are shackled by the material that you're working with.  If you're trying to make something that could be seamlessly watched with the other five films these shots stand out because none of the movies have facial shots cropped this tight.

 

I hope that you don't mind my comments.  I am really impressed with your work so far and look forward to watching the workprint from start to finish sometime this weekend.  

Author
Time

bkev said:

daneditor said:

The use of the Star Tours footage to link Vader and Luke might end up being cut. But I do like the idea of linking the two characters. There are other moments in the edit where I try to show Vader getting into Luke's head, so that moment (poor CGI and all) is telling the audience that although they're worlds away Vader is always with Luke.

I dig the idea, but I think the execution is poor.  Maybe jump cuts like in the final moments of ESB would work better... or were they really quick fades?

The original Star Tours footage is a rush through hyperspace, then arriving at Tatooine and flying over the desert until some pod racers (annoyingly) start zooming by. I had to obviously cut before the pod racers appeared, which is why the shot somewhat abruptly fades to Luke. I could try cutting to Luke I guess, but a fade felt like a more elegant way of doing it.

Author
Time

regularjoe said:

I hopscotched around the workprint last night, mostly trying to hunt out the large changes.

I think it is really impressive and enjoyed what I saw a lot and would certainly like to see where you take this.

I was quite impressed with how you addressed the Endor battle (ground theater).  I always imagined the cut scene on the Death Star focused on the space battle and I like how it was tied in with the fanfilm work of stormtroopers vs. rebels.  I've heard other people opine about having Boba Fett vs Han worked in here and how you did this was quite engaging.  I realize that based on your source material you're probably stuck there with the burned in captions (and Boba Fett using the word "closure" doesn't work) and the actor in the Fett costume...that costume doesn't fit, again, beyond your control.

 

My only true concern here is the scenes with Boba Fett on Endor.  They work pretty well but all the really tight shots on Fett's helmet doesn't work for me at all.  Again, I know that you are shackled by the material that you're working with.  If you're trying to make something that could be seamlessly watched with the other five films these shots stand out because none of the movies have facial shots cropped this tight.

 

I hope that you don't mind my comments.  I am really impressed with your work so far and look forward to watching the workprint from start to finish sometime this weekend.  

I don't mind your comments at all. I'm grateful for them.

I totally agree about the Fett subplot. There just isn't enough footage to really make it work.

I like the idea of the shootout between Han and Fett at the bunker, but it either needs someone with amazing compositing skills to add Fett to existing ROTJ shots or new footage to be shot. Taking stuff from fan films in this case hasn't done the job. What's annoying is that one fan film had plenty of footage of a forest battle involving Fett, but there's snow on the ground throughout. I've used occasional quick shots from that film, but without the snow I could have almost certainly got enough footage to make it work.

The way I used the Jerjerrod deleted scene is pretty cool I think. Some will probably complain about the hand held footage being un-Star Wars, but again I can only work with what I have, and by showing it as viewscreen footage I think it overcomes that criticism.

Author
Time

I watched the whole work print last night and liked it a lot.  This is my first ROTJ fanedit and I found it amazing how fast the show moves along when all the silly stuff is trimmed out.  

 

Author
Time

regularjoe said:

I watched the whole work print last night and liked it a lot.  This is my first ROTJ fanedit and I found it amazing how fast the show moves along when all the silly stuff is trimmed out.  

 

Good to hear you enjoyed it.

Author
Time

Oh, mann... where should I start?

Every SW OT fan should take a look on this work of yours. Seriously.

Firstly, before seing it I thought it's some sort of experimental rough cut with a few scenes put in a certain new order. Instead - it's a very smooth watch with nice transitions and music/sound alterations which is not easy to do. You didn't only change a compelte feel of that movie, but you also took a great care in your newly constructed pacing even by shortening the good scenes just for the pace' sake (f.e. shorter approaching of objects and shorter dramatically unconsistent/unusable dialogs). I couldn't believe how convincing it is this way. In this case, less is really more. Of course, there are single details which need reconsidering or redoing, but this is, without being immodest, the greatest fan edit of ROTJ since. I wonder what Adywan will say upon seeing it. It seems, you sent ROTJ to a fitness programm. It lost all the fat and gained real muscle. Incredible. The whole Bobba Fett subplot fits in nicely in the rest of the story and for the first time gives some sense to his appearence in the movie. This is correct way to approach screenwriting. 

Unfortunately, we can only see what we can see. I can see a great effort and get very clear idea what ROTJ could have been if Gary Kurtz stayed around, or Lucas have listened for Lawence Kasdan's idea that someone should die in this movie. 

Of course, I see that it's almost impossible to integrate all new scenes completely, for a different reasons. Recovered ones look raw and in weak resolution and colour, and the new Endor scenes look directed by another person then the rest of a movie, also shot in the wrong place. This is of course the question of budget, but I suppose, one could eventually shoot this stuff in a "filmy" way with that warm Marquand/Hume picture in Redwoods CA for identical background. The good stuff is, Redwoods is still there - it's not Coruscant or Mos Eisley :-) 

The opening of this movie should be bigger in any way (for example one extended Vader's arrival to Corruscant) and the Yoda scene should come second, in one piece. Your remarks about it are right, but they don't help you if something feels missing or weird.

But let me state clearly about this edit: it is extremely difficult to mess with ROTJ and anyone who tries this so successfully as you did should be awarded highest attention of the fan community.

I hope, Kennedy and Abrams and the great creator himself will see it as well just to reconsider the approach to the general tone of star wars films as they maybe should feel like.

Thank you for doing this.

 

 

wise you must be.
Author
Time

Thanks for the kind review. I appreciate it.

Re: the opening. It has since been changed quite a bit. It now opens with Luke using the Force to build his lightsaber, then Coruscant, then the whole Yoda dying scene.

Glad you liked the Fett subplot. It's taken a lot of work just to get to this rough stage. But I doubt it'll ever be release-worthy - there are so many shots taken from various fan films, so that nothing matches up as well as I'd like.

Hopefully the new version will be online by the end of this month.

Author
Time

Can't wait!

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

Author
Time

Please don't mistake my lack of comment as a lack interest.

I'm fascinated to see how this plays out.

It might be fun (coming from the conversation over on the Star Wars discussion thread) if you attempted to remove the suggestion of Force powers being inherited from the edit.

The lines that would need to go would be Ben saying that The Emperor and Ben knew that Vader's offspring would be a threat to him and Luke saying that Leia has the same power that he has and will learn it.

How is she supposed to learn it if Yoda and Ben are gone and he, Vader and the Emperor are dead as he claims to expect on The Death Star.

It would be nice to watch Jedi with the impression that anyone could become a Jedi and fight Vader rather than a prince born with magic powers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Ryan McAvoy said:

Can't wait!

Cool. I'll send you the links when it's online.

I haven't tried it myself, but apparently it's easy to use MEGA with JDownloader (if you're still having problems downloading from MEGA).

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

Please don't mistake my lack of comment as a lack interest.

I'm fascinated to see how this plays out.

It might be fun (coming from the conversation over on the Star Wars discussion thread) if you attempted to remove the suggestion of Force powers being inherited from the edit.

The lines that would need to go would be Ben saying that The Emperor and Ben knew that Vader's offspring would be a threat to him and Luke saying that Leia has the same power that he has and will learn it.

How is she supposed to learn it if Yoda and Ben are gone and he, Vader and the Emperor are dead as he claims to expect on The Death Star.

It would be nice to watch Jedi with the impression that anyone could become a Jedi and fight Vader rather than a prince born with magic powers.

Those two lines have already been cut, although not for that specific reason. Luke and Leia aren't related in this edit so the Ben/Luke scene has been cut altogether and the other scene was trimmed to remove those lines.

It's an interesting idea but surely Luke becoming a strong Jedi already suggests that Force powers are inherited?

Author
Time

A while back I cut Luke and Leia as brother/sister from this edit, but someone suggested I put the subplot back in - but without the Obi Wan exposition scene. So my question is, if Luke uses the Force to realize that Yoda's "another Skywalker" refers to Leia, and then explains it to her (and the audience) in the Ewok village would that work from a storytelling POV? Or would it feel like a scene was missing?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

When I did my extremely rough cut of ROTJ the main point of the edit or what I deemed to be the lynch pin of it was that Luke new and tried to keep it secret she was his sister but failed because of his feelings. It was also about his worries of losing the ones he loved.

Breakdown

1.Ben tells Luke Leia is his sister and to keep it secret as this knowledge could be used against him.

2.When Luke is on the Bridge in Ewok village luke does not reveal that leia is his sister to her and does what Obi-wan told him to do.

3.When Luke was hiding from Vader Leia got shot in the arm outside the bunker... Lukes feelings betrayed both him and leia. Vader learns she is lukes sister before leia knows it.

4. When Vader dies it has more emotional impact that Vader tells Luke "tell your sister you were right about me" it works because he already told Leia Vader is his father but Leia does not realise Vader is her father too at this point.

5. When Luke returns to Ewok village they are wearing the same clothes so it is possible for Luke to reveal to Leia that She is his sister as his father told him to although Luke now says "The force run's strong in my family... I have it and.... My sister has it."

Theres nothing wrong with her being lukes sister, it was just not executed very well... I thought this improved it...Although it is tricky to get right at Ewok village

Author
Time

I don't know if the soundtrack would intrude too much to edit the dialogue but you could take ,"Yoda spoke of another" from the confrontation with Ben's ghost.

You don't have to tell the audience she is his sister yet as Vader will make a big thing of it later. Just let the audience and Leia know she is 'The Other'.

It also helps with the 'always known' line because if she always knew he was her brother the smooches are a bit too weird but maybe she always suspected she was strong in the Force.

For the reasons I mentioned earlier I'm not too keen but it might help with what you are trying to do here.

Leia: Luke, don't talk that way! You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: Master Yoda spoke of another. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have.
Leia[astonished] I know. Somehow, I've always known.
Luke: Then you know why I have to face him.
Leia: No! Luke, run away, far away! If he can feel your presence, then leave this place! I wish I could go with you.
Luke: No, you don't. You've always been strong.
Leia: But why must you confront him?
Luke: Because there is good in him. I've felt it. He won't turn me over to the Emperor. I can save him. I can turn him back to the good side. I have to try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time
   The whole sister thing is very tricky. It seems like it should be a great culminating revelation. Maybe even more subtle like showing Luke and Leia from a distance after "It won't be easy for you...." and suggesting that Luke learned of it off-screen from Ben or Yoda.
Author
Time
 (Edited)

Thanks guys. Very interesting suggestions.

Ronster: the idea of cutting between Luke and Leia when Leia gets wounded is excellent. Trouble is that in my edit she's shot by Fett not a stormtrooper, and the way the scene has been re-edited I doubt cutting to Luke would work in that moment.

I definitely don't want to use the Obi Wan scene. I like how the opening ten minutes flow right now, and a long sit down to explain everything would kill the pace. If I had better skills at After Effects then maybe I could add the Obi Wan scene to the Ewok village before Luke surrenders, but I honestly like the idea of Luke using the Force to figure out who Leia is. It's just a question of whether the audience will keep up, or wonder if they've missed something.

Bingowings: I like it the idea of the audience getting the information incrementally. "another Skywalker" "it's you, Leia", "especially for... sister".

I'll give it a try, although I suspect the audio editing will be a problem. (it might be one of those situations where that Adobe software that's hopefully gonna be out next year will be required)

Thejediknighthusezni:I agree it should be a big moment in the movie, and it's really a shame how they botched it. I quite like the movie without the subplot, but unfortunately it ruins a key moment: when Vader is baiting Luke and Luke finally attacks. It's too important a moment, so I'll have to put the subplot back in.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

daneditor said:

I could add the Obi Wan scene to the Ewok village before Luke surrenders.

^ This idea has caught my imagination. I'm working on it now.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

Author
Time

Nice! I'd love to see what you come up with.