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Return Of The Jedi - a general Random Thoughts thread — Page 14

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Another random complaint I have about ROTJ: it’s the first time we’re introduced to “lightsaber baseball bat syndrome”, i.e. when lightsabers stop being the deadly slicing weapons they’re supposed to be and turn into baseball bats you can whack people with. When Luke slashes at Jabba’s henchmen aboard the sail barge, they sort of just get knocked backwards and fall off the barge.

Lightsaber baseball bat syndrome also appeared in the recent Disney Kenobi series.

Clearly, this syndrome occurs because a lightsaber is really a rated R weapon in a PG universe. That’s why Lucas used battledroids as disposable Jedi fodder in the Prequels. But the whole “baseball bat effect” looks so dumb. Star Wars shouldn’t be ultra-violent, but surely there’s some compromise between turning ROTJ into a violent slasher film and turning the coolest sci-fi weapon ever conceived into a stupid glowing baton.

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“Set your lightsabers to ‘baseball bat’.”

Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.

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We can probably agree that someone didn’t feel like animating scorch marks by hand in that case.

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Superweapon VII said:

“Set your lightsabers to ‘baseball bat’.”

I know you’re just making a joke here, but that would be really cool if you could put a lightsaber on different settings like a phaser; which would explain why it has different levels of power in different scenes. I love this concept probably more than I should.

You’ll laugh! You’ll cry! You’ll kiss three bucks goodbye!

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WookieeWarrior77 said:

Superweapon VII said:

“Set your lightsabers to ‘baseball bat’.”

I know you’re just making a joke here, but that would be really cool if you could put a lightsaber on different settings like a phaser; which would explain why it has different levels of power in different scenes. I love this concept probably more than I should.

This is canon in the EU, BTW.

Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.

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Another thing… after the Prequels came out, everyone got a sense of what a Jedi was capable of doing. Taking out a room full of armed goons with a single laser sword seems firmly within a Jedi’s normal capabilities. But when ROTJ came out, we had never seen a Jedi do anything remotely like that. The most impressive thing we saw was Yoda lifting the X-wing, which suggested that a powerful Jedi would probably be able to use telekinesis to devastating effect in a fight. And Darth Vader does just this in ESB when he knocks Luke out the window on Bespin.

But when I first saw Luke just start flipping around and stabbing or slashing at everyone onboard the sail barge, it kind of just came off as completely unbelievable and silly. Like… why can’t any of Jabba’s guys just shoot him from a distance? He can’t reflect every single bolt, can he? (To be fair, he does take a hit in his hand.) Plus Jabba’s henchmen have the high ground! Luke is basically fighting an upward battle from inside a pit, with gravity against him. Regardless, I had imagined that Jedi were more about subtle mental trickery and telekinesis rather than just straight up doing backflips and stabbing people. I thought lightsabers were almost ceremonial, used mostly for Jedi vs. Jedi combat.

But after seeing the Prequels, Luke’s lethal acrobatics in ROTJ seem a lot less far fetched now. If only his lightsaber actually worked correctly, instead of turning into a baseball bat. (To be fair, he just constructed it. Maybe factory default settings are “baseball bat” mode.)

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Vader brings everyone to the carbon freezing chamber because he’s trying to send out the max amount of pain vibes into the universe for Luke to pick up on. It’s why he tortures Han for seemingly no reason, too.

Simple as.

Kershner and Ford were way overthinking it.

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I just thought of something. When Luke and friends are on the skiff, and he tells Han, “there’s nothing to see, I used to live here, you know” doesn’t Han know what Tatooine looks like? He’s hung out there before, in the first movie.
I’ve rationalized this to say that sure, he’s been to Mos Eisley, but hot the “middle-of-nowhere” parts like the endless sand dunes where Luke’s home was. (I don’t want there to be an issue with this line exchange because I love it)

You’ll laugh! You’ll cry! You’ll kiss three bucks goodbye!

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WookieeWarrior77 said:

I just thought of something. When Luke and friends are on the skiff, and he tells Han, “there’s nothing to see, I used to live here, you know” doesn’t Han know what Tatooine looks like?

I don’t understand the problem here. Han says he can’t see, Luke says there’s nothing to see as they are in the middle of the desert. How else would that conversation could have gone?

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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WookieeWarrior77 said:

I just thought of something. When Luke and friends are on the skiff, and he tells Han, “there’s nothing to see, I used to live here, you know” doesn’t Han know what Tatooine looks like? He’s hung out there before, in the first movie.
I’ve rationalized this to say that sure, he’s been to Mos Eisley, but hot the “middle-of-nowhere” parts like the endless sand dunes where Luke’s home was. (I don’t want there to be an issue with this line exchange because I love it)

Yeah I’m pretty sure your rationalization is the correct answer here

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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ROTJ was my fav as a kid. I always loved the scene where Luke confronts Jabba one last time at the Sarlaac Pit, and does that cool jump off the plank and pulls himself back up. Also the speedbike chase was exciting to me.
I had these movies on vhs. I never saw the special editions until way later and I think its a shame that ROTJ is the one that was ruined the most with its changes.

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I was just randomly rewatching Return of the Jedi the other day on Disney+. I noticed that Disney added a content warning that said: “Tobacco use”. What the hell? Is there some scene I forgot where Palpatine is smoking a cigarette while relaxing on the DS2 or something? I’m not sure why this content warning is there, but I can only guess it must be because of that brief scene where Jabba is smoking some kind of space hookah pipe (which may not technically even be tobacco).

Because I’m a ridiculous nerd, I looked this up on Wookiepedia, and found this article: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hookah_pipe

Hilariously, the Canon version of the article doesn’t specify what exactly is being smoked in these Star Wars “hookah pipes”. But the Legends version of the article says it’s some kind of intoxicant called “Marcan herbs”, which is described as a “mild euphoric drug”. So the content warning should probably be more like “drug use” rather than “tobacco use”, if Marcan herbs are still canonical. Also, obviously I have no life.

EDIT: Just realized there’s also a shot of some Ewoks smoking pipes. I guess this movie does have lots of smoking in it.

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Yeah, Disney’s anti-tobacco crusade is weird. They act as though banning cigarettes from their films will cause kids to not smoke, as if they won’t ever see someone smoking in public, or won’t learn about smoking later in life.

One of the Bad Batch episodes features a trigger warning for earthquake/tsunami depictions, which was similarly bizarre.

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My review of Return of the Jedi on my YouTube channel (Lord Vader Tyrannus). I had to post it in two parts because of copyright. The second part is in the description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa7F2K6P0bw

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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Channel72 said:>
EDIT: Just realized there’s also a shot of some Ewoks smoking pipes. I guess this movie does have lots of smoking in it.

I have contemporary photos of the shopping mall in my hometown from when the movie came out, there’s ashtrays to the left and right at the top of the escalator going down in one of the anchor department stores.
Small town America, everyone smoked.
Things have changed a lot in that regard.

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I don’t think AI responses count as Random Thoughts, though the answers may be been data scraped from the thoughts of others on a site such as this.

Anyway, I was thinking about how most people say the Leia twin sister plot is a bad idea. But what I would say is the best scene, Luke giving in to anger, is based on it. I’m not sure you can you have one without the other… unless Vader saying ‘You have a sister,’ is referring to someone we meet in a sequel.

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I will never not be so impressed with Mark Hamill’s acting, especially in the third act. He is so convincing in portraying Luke’s zen determination, but always reminds us with subtle micro expressions that Luke is still afraid, deep down.

I think that’s important. Luke not emotionless, but he’s (almost) mastered the art of regulating his emotions. He uses his compassion for his father to attempt to reach him, but doesn’t lose control until Vader threatens his sister. When he falters, lashes out in rage, he then stops, reflects, and let’s go. Being a Jedi is about being in balance with your emotions, and Luke captures that so perfectly.

It’s hard to think of anyone else who would put themselves on the line to save an abusive father who tortured and killed people he cared about, all because he knows of the conflict that his father represses. That’s a hero.

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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G&G-Fan said:

I will never not be so impressed with Mark Hamill’s acting, especially in the third act. He is so convincing in portraying Luke’s zen determination, but always reminds us with subtle micro expressions that Luke is still afraid, deep down.

I think that’s important. Luke not emotionless, but he’s (almost) mastered the art of regulating his emotions. He uses his compassion for his father to attempt to reach him, but doesn’t lose control until Vader threatens his sister. When he falters, lashes out in rage, he then stops, reflects, and let’s go. Being a Jedi is about being in balance with your emotions, and Luke captures that so perfectly.

It’s hard to think of anyone else who would put themselves on the line to save an abusive father who tortured and killed people he cared about, all because he knows of the conflict that his father represses. That’s a hero.

RotJ is the movie that really elevated Luke from a good character to a great one. It’s why I don’t abide people claiming that Luke is generic or uninteresting. Luke is great because he doesn’t fit the stereotypical image of the knight or warrior. He’s reserved and soft spoken, and conquers the villain through compassion, not force. He is what a knight would be in an ideal world.

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Servii said:

RotJ is the movie that really elevated Luke from a good character to a great one. It’s why I don’t abide people claiming that Luke is generic or uninteresting. Luke is great because he doesn’t fit the stereotypical image of the knight or warrior. He’s reserved and soft spoken, and conquers the villain through compassion, not force. He is what a knight would be in an ideal world.

Absolutely. His scenes with Vader perfectly highlight the contrast between an ideal masculine knight and a toxically-masculine one.

Luke is calm with a firm, compassionate heart. He is secure, giving in his care for others, despite the loss he’s experienced in his life. We see this in his mission to save Han. He pauses his own training for his friend. He trusts his friends with the mission on Endor and is prepared to die on DSII. The love he has for his friends is enough.
Vader is cold with a ruthless furnace heart. He is possessive and, ultimately, insecure. As such, he uses power to compensate. His wrath extends to his own men and he even attempts to turn his children into servants for his own selfish conquests.

Luke is defensive (except when he indulges into the dark side, as he still has his own internal conflict), Vader is aggressive.
Still, Luke is prone to the same rage his father is, and going cold as a defense mechanism from pain. This is one of the ways Vader being Luke’s father retroactively makes ANH better. Luke inherited that cold reaction to his the death of his uncle and aunt and Biggs from his father. Even when mourning Obi-Wan, his reaction is still rather subdued.

But Luke is ultimately able to reach the sensitive man locked within Vader’s mask through his own mastery of his emotions. Also because he’s his son, the son of his long-dead wife who still has unconditional love for his father. The same unconditional love his wife had for him, but he wasn’t able to let go of his selfishness. And while Vader exhibits the same possessive tendencies over Luke in ESB and most of ROTJ, he eventually chooses to be selfless when he can’t stand to watch his son about to die just to save him, a monster.

In their final scene together, Luke and Anakin are both more concerned about each other then themselves. Anakin’s son was able to pacify his flame and melt his armor, bring out the compassionate side of him, that Luke also inherited, but mastered far sooner.

I don’t think a Jedi should be a hippie pacifist; after all, Luke still fights all of Jabba’s minions, when he’s forced to. They fight to defend others first and themselves second. But, as Obi-Wan put it, “There are alternatives to fighting.”

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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“You should have bargained Jabba. It’s the last mistake you’ll ever make.”

I enjoy the expression on Luke’s face and satisfaction in his voice when he realizes that Jabba has pushed him into a position where he will be forced to eliminate him and his henchmen.

When forced to kill a Jedi has few, if any, regrets or remorse. Obi-wan couldn’t give two shits after cutting down the guys threatening Luke in Mos Eisley.

This is why Jedi were once (back in the 90s) cool characters.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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The Emperor’s insistence on being there to witness the Rebellion’s defeat is a form of unintentional self-sabotage.

He spent his whole life on this conquest for power, and when he finally gets it… there’s no thrill. He spends all day sitting in a chair. How boring is that? He needs to put himself in positions where he can get a new high off of showing off his power.

That’s why he needs to be there for the Battle of Endor. He needs that high, because otherwise he’s just feels empty. And it’s ultimately his undoing.

Many say Vader got the short end of the stick in having to do the Emperor’s dirty work, but what I find interesting, especially in Canon, is you can tell that Vader does get a thrill out of his missions. He likes to show off his power, like the Emperor.

The Emperor and Vader are essentially in a toxic codependent father-son relationship: they can’t live without each other unless they have a replacement (for both, this is Luke). Otherwise Vader doesn’t have a mission, and the Emperor doesn’t have a throne to sit on. You can’t have politicians without enforcers, and you can’t be the Sith Master if you’re not the Master of any Sith. Vader may be a slave of the Emperor, but in a twisted way, the Emperor is also a slave of Vader. What’s he gonna do without him?

Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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G&G-Fan said:

The Emperor’s insistence on being there to witness the Rebellion’s defeat is a form of unintentional self-sabotage.

He spent his whole life on this conquest for power, and when he finally gets it… there’s no thrill. He spends all day sitting in a chair. How boring is that? He needs to put himself in positions where he can get a new high off of showing off his power.

That’s why he needs to be there for the Battle of Endor. He needs that high, because otherwise he’s just feels empty. And it’s ultimately his undoing.

No, he’s there because he wants to ensure the Rebellion falls for his trap.

Mon Mothma said:

But most important of all, we’ve learned that the Emperor himself is personally overseeing the final stages of the construction of this Death Star.

His presence is the final piece of bait that draws the entire fleet into attacking immediately.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project