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Return Of The Jedi - a general Random Thoughts thread

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 (Edited)

Now that there is a dedicated ‘Original Trilogy Discussion’ forum on the site, and the General Star Wars Random Thoughts thread is in the ‘The Expanded Universe & General Star Wars Discussion’ section, some of us on here thought it may be a neat idea to have new ‘General Random Thoughts’ threads focusing on each of the three Original Trilogy films.

Plus another thread for ‘General Random Original Trilogy Thoughts’.

In other words… a few threads for some light discussion of these much loved, iconic and ground-breaking films.
 

And so:-

Star Wars (1977) - a general Random Thoughts thread

The Empire Strikes Back - a general Random Thoughts thread

Return Of The Jedi - a general Random Thoughts thread

The Original Trilogy - a general Random Thoughts thread
 

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This post below by NevererGreat, made in response to the above image, pretty much sums up Return Of The Jedi for me…

 

NeverarGreat said:

That moment you realize that the worst OT film has more awesome stuff in it than most other film franchises.

 

Flawed, yet sill massively enjoyable - and with many great moments 😃
 

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Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
 
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^ NeverarGreat or Return Of The Jedi? 😉

 

 

For me the dedication to detail from the craftsmen involved (crafts-people?) gives the film a lift, a lift probably beyond its reach, and gives the whole movie that epic feeling.

Some of techniques and execution even hold up today, and given this was done in a time before CGI (which is something we take for granted in these modern times in film & tv) it is still great to watch and experience - even for what must now be the 268th time 😃

Those Making Of & Behind the Scenes videos for it really illustrate the point. Fair play to ZkinandBonez for compiling his excellent YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy making-ofs, documentaries, promos, etc thread on the Original Trilogy films - and his other similarly related video threads too.

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The germ of all the flaws of all the Star Wars films that would follow can be observed in ROTJ. It’s also my favorite of them all.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Just noticed something… Jabba turns down a chance to do the right thing but Vader ends up being redeemed.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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It’s an angle I hadn’t considered from Luke’s perspective. Does he go to Vader more apprehensive because he couldn’t even persuade Jabba to relent? Or does he feel serene, since the Force will provide victory regardless of his own persuasiveness?

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Given that Luke outright gives the droids to Jabba, I’m pretty sure he’s expecting Jabba to want to do things the hard way.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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There are a lot of different ways I would change Return of the Jedi. I think it’s still an enjoyable film, but it’s definitely the weakest of the OT.

First off, I think the writers completely forgot about Darth Vader’s motivation in Episode V. If you can recall, Darth Vader seemed to be misleading the Emperor into thinking that he would either turn Luke or kill him. But instead, we find in the famous scene where he tells Luke he’s his father, that Vader was actually plotting to get Luke to kill the Emperor for him. Come Episode VI, this plot line is completely abandoned, and I think that’s a real shame. I think it would make the movie 10 times more interesting if Vader was constantly bothering Luke, trying to get him to turn to the dark side so he can kill the Emperor. And at the same time, everyone on the light side can be telling Luke the same thing; kill the Emperor! We can then have Luke plan to turn his father back to the light side, and Vader will ultimately become the one who destroys the Emperor. After all, this was Vader’s problem. He had been living as a pawn of the Emperor for decades. It would be ultimately cowardly of him to get his son to get him out of this mess. And it is his Son that ultimately redeems him. So firstly, the movie should be more about Anakin’s relationship with Palpatine, and how it has soured.

Secondly, I think it would be best to change Endor back into Kashyyyk. In Episode III, the Battle of Kashyyyk is presented to the audience as one of the turning battles of the Clone Wars. We see the Wookies free and fighting in the beginning, then annihilated and forced into slavery at the end. It would be poetic if come Episode VI, the Wookies are the ones to turn the tide of the War again by defeating the Empire.

Thirdly, I think the whole Jabba’s Palace adventure needs to be toned down. Ultimately, Luke’s plan makes NO sense. In the movie, Luke sends R2 and 3PO to Jabba as gifts. Why? Now we have more hostages to save. Then Luke sends Leia disguised as a bounty hunter, and sells Chewbacca to Jabba. Why? Now we have more hostages to save. You see the pattern here? If not, then Leia gets captured rescuing Han, and now we have another person for Luke to save. And thru all of this, Lando happens to have infiltrated the Palace and does… nothing. Wow. What a BS plan.

Fourthly, I think we need to have a more political plot line in the movie. Why is the Emperor building another Death Star? In Episode IV, Tarkin reveals that the Original Death Star was to be used to keep the Regional Governors in line with the Empire. So since the rebels destroyed the first one, are the Regional Governors not following the Emperors will? Just throwing a couple of lines that explains the state of the Galaxy would help tremendously.

Although I think there still needs to be more to change, those are some of the more basic things I can think of.

“Who are you?”, asked Kira.

“I am the balance”, replied the ghost.

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After seeing episode 9 I wish Hon Solo died in episode 6 like Harrison Ford wanted so Ben Solo was never born.

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ShamanWhill said:

First off, I think the writers completely forgot about Darth Vader’s motivation in Episode V. If you can recall, Darth Vader seemed to be misleading the Emperor into thinking that he would either turn Luke or kill him. But instead, we find in the famous scene where he tells Luke he’s his father, that Vader was actually plotting to get Luke to kill the Emperor for him. Come Episode VI, this plot line is completely abandoned, and I think that’s a real shame. I think it would make the movie 10 times more interesting if Vader was constantly bothering Luke, trying to get him to turn to the dark side so he can kill the Emperor. And at the same time, everyone on the light side can be telling Luke the same thing; kill the Emperor! We can then have Luke plan to turn his father back to the light side, and Vader will ultimately become the one who destroys the Emperor. After all, this was Vader’s problem. He had been living as a pawn of the Emperor for decades. It would be ultimately cowardly of him to get his son to get him out of this mess. And it is his Son that ultimately redeems him. So firstly, the movie should be more about Anakin’s relationship with Palpatine, and how it has soured.

While this sounds interesting as an idea, I think it plays out better in the movie. First off, based on purely what we saw in TESB is Vader’s one line about Luke killing the Emperor and ruling the galaxy together. Fine, but we do not know if he was telling the truth. Just moments ago he said to the Emperor that Luke would be their ally and he would join them or die. So Vader very well could just be saying anything to lure him to the dark side to serve his master.

Secondly, in ROTJ I think it would be harder to get more emotion out of the situation if Vader was basically on Luke’s side from the get-go. It plays out better when he must obey his master to the end where it kills them both. Otherwise it would’ve felt like “well if you didn’t kill him, I guess I had to do it myself” and then you’re just thinking why didn’t he do it years ago.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I think what ShamanWhill is talking about actually is what’s happening in RotJ.
Vader can’t kill the Emperor. The Emperor’s hold is too strong on him. Vader needs Luke to do it, which is his real reason to bring Luke to the Emperor. Vader knows that the murder will make him the new Emperor & make Luke much easier to turn to the darkside, where they can “rule the galaxy as father & son.”
I do wish this was mentioned in their scene at the docks though…
Seeing his son tortured is what finally gives Vader the power to break the darkside hold & do the deed himself. And thus the Return of the Jedi & a silent title-drop.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I don’t know if that’s the intended meaning, and I can’t believe I’ve never thought of it myself, but I vastly prefer that interpretation over what I always assumed: that the title refers to Luke becoming the new line of Jedi and thus the Jedi (plural) returning to the galaxy.

But yeah, your idea of Anakin being the Jedi who returns after spending decades lost is much better and more poetic. I love it!

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ray_afraid said:

I think what ShamanWhill is talking about actually is what’s happening in RotJ.
Vader can’t kill the Emperor. The Emperor’s hold is too strong on him. Vader needs Luke to do it, which is his real reason to bring Luke to the Emperor. Vader knows that the murder will make him the new Emperor & make Luke much easier to turn to the darkside, where they can “rule the galaxy as father & son.”
I do wish this was mentioned in their scene at the docks though…
Seeing his son tortured is what finally gives Vader the power to break the darkside hold & do the deed himself. And thus the Return of the Jedi & a silent title-drop.

Hmm… But then again, Vader defends the Emperor when Luke picks up his lightsaber. And even the Emperor asks Luke to kill him. And later his father. It’s an interesting mix of what’s actually happening. They could never make sense of these kind of scenes today.

About the title: since it was originally Revenge of the Jedi, it never was about Vader.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

ray_afraid said:

I think what ShamanWhill is talking about actually is what’s happening in RotJ.
Vader can’t kill the Emperor. The Emperor’s hold is too strong on him. Vader needs Luke to do it, which is his real reason to bring Luke to the Emperor. Vader knows that the murder will make him the new Emperor & make Luke much easier to turn to the darkside, where they can “rule the galaxy as father & son.”
I do wish this was mentioned in their scene at the docks though…
Seeing his son tortured is what finally gives Vader the power to break the darkside hold & do the deed himself. And thus the Return of the Jedi & a silent title-drop.

Hmm… But then again, Vader defends the Emperor when Luke picks up his lightsaber.

It’s not perfect, but I chalk it up to the Darkside’s grip. If Vader “must obey (his) master.” this would include protecting him, willingly or not.

And even the Emperor asks Luke to kill him.

The Emperor wants Luke to kill Vader so that he can inherit a new, younger minion.
Both baddies are working against each other.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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The Emperor tells Vader that only together they can only turn Luke to the dark side. Luke willing to die instead of joining his father in Empire proved to Vader that he can’t do it without the Emperor. I think the Emperor’s hold on Vader did play a part as to why Vader would defend him, but I think Vader did wanted to kill the Emperor, but only after his son joined him on the dark side. At the point Luke grabbed his saber and tried to kill the Emperor, I don’t think Vader believed that would’ve been enough to turn Luke. Luke needed to be angrier, give in more to the dark side, before he would succumb. But I think Vader didn’t see it would end with Luke almost killing him instead. I think Luke snapping when he threatened to turn Leia caught him off guard.

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OK weird thing I happened to think about today for real… but at the end of the movie just as the music swells and the iris effect closes to credits there’s this weird laugh? Is that like an Ewok? Both this and R2 beeping are louder than the score just for a second.

https://youtu.be/TvXm5HuR72k?t=148

Yub Nub for life

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Mocata said:

OK weird thing I happened to think about today for real… but at the end of the movie just as the music swells and the iris effect closes to credits there’s this weird laugh? Is that like an Ewok? Both this and R2 beeping are louder than the score just for a second.

https://youtu.be/TvXm5HuR72k?t=148

It’s Palpatine. His return was part of George’s plan all along! /s

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Always thought it was Carrie
Edit: Listening to it again it sounds like Nev is right

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Mocata said:

OK weird thing I happened to think about today for real… but at the end of the movie just as the music swells and the iris effect closes to credits there’s this weird laugh? Is that like an Ewok? Both this and R2 beeping are louder than the score just for a second.

https://youtu.be/TvXm5HuR72k?t=148

Def an Ewok. It’s bugged me every time.

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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This is what I think about randomly in the work day. It just appeared. Not only weird music out of nowhere but also this stuff pops in there. Like that scene from Inside Out except all the marbles going up the chute are Lucasfilm sounds and 80s movie scores.

Yub Nub for life

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canofhumdingers said:

I don’t know if that’s the intended meaning, and I can’t believe I’ve never thought of it myself, but I vastly prefer that interpretation over what I always assumed: that the title refers to Luke becoming the new line of Jedi and thus the Jedi (plural) returning to the galaxy.

But yeah, your idea of Anakin being the Jedi who returns after spending decades lost is much better and more poetic. I love it!

Cool! I always like it when someone’s odd thoughts enhance the experience for others.
This really is how I’ve always seen it, so this isn’t coming from a PT tainted point of view.
It mostly comes from Luke’s conversation with Obi-Wan on Dagobah. Obi-Wan is sure that “the good man who was your father was destroyed”, but Luke is sure he can bring his father back. When Luke says “I can bring him back… to the good side.” he’d might as well say “I can make him return… to the Jedi.”
This may not be the intended meaning, but I contest that it’s stronger than any other meaning I’ve ever seen posited & has a stronger connection to the actual film.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I don’t think Anakin should have become a ghost at the end. Vader was confused when Obi-Wan became a ghost, so how could Vader possibly become a ghost himself?

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer