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Return Of The Jedi - a General Random Thoughts thread — Page 3

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I’m not sure I like the idea of a bittersweet ending to the trilogy, but ROTJ would’ve turned out much better had Lucas and Kurtz worked out there differences with a little more compromise. Gary Kurtz was probably one of the most important people in the creation of Star Wars and Empire. He believed in the material. Lucas probably should’ve gotten Irvin Kershner back to direct too.

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The ending of Mad Max Fury Road was basically what I’d imagine a Gary Kurtz-style “bittersweet” ROTJ ending to be. Just substitute Nux with Han, Furiosa with Leia, and Max with Luke.

At least, something like that was probably Kurtz’s idea for how to wrap up the OT in one film. Had George Lucas kept to the idea of an ST that introduced Luke’s lost sister, probably Han and Leia would both have been killed in ROTJ (as Lucas indicated in interview in Bantha Tracks: the sequel trilogy “deals with the character who survives Star Wars III”, meaning Luke).

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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captainsolo said:

At the very least it would have been more like an Indy film because George could produce Steven but not try and over the shoulder direct/second guess in the manner that is continually suggested he did/tried to do with Richard Marquand.
Ironically Spielberg had just finished Poltergeist where it is strongly felt he did this with Tobe Hooper and ghost directed much of the film himself.

I’m sure Spielberg would have insisted on rewrites and the film would have been stronger because George would have felt he had to listen to him. But it also would have had a Spielberg flavor which is alien to the Star wars universe too.

Weirdest of all is that this could have been directed by David Lynch.

Not even rewrites, the script was still being worked on and Marquand was involved with the story meetings. It’s safe to say with any director the film would be quite different because of that. With Spielberg, you could probably safely say it would have been better.

That said, it’s not entirely clear how seriously Spielberg was ever considered. But that might’ve been different without the DGA issues of course.

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ray_afraid said:

Tantive3+1 said:

captainsolo said:

Weirdest of all is that this could have been directed by David Lynch.

Or David Cronenberg

Was he really considered? I don’t think I’ve heard that.

Yes mate, Cronenberg talks about it here:-

David Cronenberg says decision not to direct Return of the Jedi was met with ‘stunned silence’’:-

https://ew.com/movies/2018/09/28/david-cronenberg-return-of-the-jedi
 

And the reasons he gives in the article for not directing it are pretty much spot on - especially considering George’s continued tinkering and altering of both Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi since; two films George didn’t actually make (‘make’ used in the ‘directed by’ sense of the term).
 

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What some people don’t realize with Lynch is how close he came. He was actually Lucas’s number one choice ahead of Marquand but ended up pulling out.

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DominicCobb said:

What some people don’t realize with Lynch is how close he came. He was actually Lucas’s number one choice ahead of Marquand but ended up pulling out.

Looking at Dune (1984) what happened with him on that film could’ve happened with ROTJ: no artistic control, no final cut priviledge, and pressure from Lucas to “do it this way”.

Analog Releases of Films That Contain Deleted, Extended, & Alternate Footage That’ve Never Been Released on DVD/BluRay

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Dek Rollins said:

If it’s not in the film, it isn’t “known” to the audience.

Sorry to say, but the audience knew the word “Ewok”

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Yeah, people had to go out of their way to read the novelization to find whatever obscure junk lies within. “Ewok” was everywhere, especially considering how strong the toy line was.

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Right. It’s possible the name Palpatine could’ve gone the way of Owen Lars being Obi-Wan’s brother.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Tantive3+1 said:

I’m with Gary Kurtz in that the DSII and going back to Tatooine were too derivative to ANH. I also believe that like him the ending should’ve been bittersweet with the Rebels winning but with heavy casualties and few survivors (just like in the Battle of Yavin it didn’t have everyone making it afterwards for a happier ending).

My head agrees, but I’m forever grateful to George for not doing that, meaning my childhood is forever alive on Endor watching the Ewoks have a party!

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I really wish the action at Jabba’s would have taken place on a lush, tropical rainforest type planet. That would have added new visual flair to the film & it seems like a place where slug-like creatures would thrive.
Also, the Sarlac being the gaping maw of a huge, beautiful flower would be better than a hole in the sand.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

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GlastoEls said:

Tantive3+1 said:

I’m with Gary Kurtz in that the DSII and going back to Tatooine were too derivative to ANH. I also believe that like him the ending should’ve been bittersweet with the Rebels winning but with heavy casualties and few survivors (just like in the Battle of Yavin it didn’t have everyone making it afterwards for a happier ending).

My head agrees, but I’m forever grateful to George for not doing that, meaning my childhood is forever alive on Endor watching the Ewoks have a party!

Same. I’m glad that the bittersweet ending was kicked to the curb. I much prefer having a happy ending to the trilogy, even though I wish it was a tetralogy sometimes (i.e., Jabba’s Palace as one movie, Endor as the other - draw out the redemption and sister plotlines more, Han’s rescue is the climax of the palace part, and we get more development of Lando and a few other characters).

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ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:

Dek Rollins said:

If it’s not in the film, it isn’t “known” to the audience.

Sorry to say, but the audience knew the word “Ewok”

The obscure novelization giving info on how the Emperor gained power & the massive advertising juggernaut plastering EWOK on everything are very different situations.

I agree; I was just pointing out that the principle he espoused is definitely false as a general principle.

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DominicCobb said:

What some people don’t realize with Lynch is how close he came. He was actually Lucas’s number one choice ahead of Marquand but ended up pulling out.

Wouldn’t the massive falling out George had with the DGA have affected either pick? IIRC, Lynch and Cronenberg had done at least one major Hollywood film at that point.

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Dek Rollins said:

Yeah, people had to go out of their way to read the novelization to find whatever obscure junk lies within. “Ewok” was everywhere, especially considering how strong the toy line was.

Not to mention the closing credits. 😉

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ShiftyEyes said:

I don’t read any of the expanded universe stuff or the tie-in novels or comics, so these are just thoughts/questions I had while watching the 4K blu-ray of ROTJ earlier today.

Was Leia demoted within the Rebel Alliance or something? She’s seen barking orders in ESB. In ROTJ, she has no clue what’s going on and that Han was put in command of leading the assault on the shield generator. Somehow known traitors, gamblers, mercenaries and smugglers were advanced within the Rebel ranks ahead of her. Is she considered a general at this time?

What kind of training did Luke get between ESB and ROTJ? I’ve heard some say he could’ve easily visited Yoda to finish his training between the films, but it’s clear that this is his first time speaking to Yoda and Obi-Wan since the events of ESB. Maybe he did some practice and learned how to build a lightsaber, but is that all you need to be a Jedi?

Obi-Wan is pretty sure Luke has to straight up murder Darth Vader. He’s pretty upset when Luke tells him he can’t.

Interesting point. Did the other leaders frown on what was essentially a personally motivated rescue mission? Jabba could have potentially sold Leia off to the Empire if he wasn’t so stoned/horny. And when did Lando get made a general, before or after they got back with Han? Mind you, it seems like the fleet was laying low until the big gathering could take place and they got the intel from the Bothan spies, and decided what to do next.

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 (Edited)

timdiggerm said:

ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:

Dek Rollins said:

If it’s not in the film, it isn’t “known” to the audience.

Sorry to say, but the audience knew the word “Ewok”

The obscure novelization giving info on how the Emperor gained power & the massive advertising juggernaut plastering EWOK on everything are very different situations.

I agree; I was just pointing out that the principle he espoused is definitely false as a general principle.

No, it is not false as a general principle. There may be occasional exceptions, but “Ewok” is not one of them:

SilverWook said:

Dek Rollins said:

Yeah, people had to go out of their way to read the novelization to find whatever obscure junk lies within. “Ewok” was everywhere, especially considering how strong the toy line was.

Not to mention the closing credits. 😉

As SilverWook mentions, “Ewok” appears in the film. Things that do not appear in the film or are not implied in the film are not known to the audience in general circumstances.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.